All Ireland SHC Final (formerly SHC thread) - READ MOD NOTE POST #1

leestone · 17-08-2017 01:40PM

Same could be said for Cathal Mannion was still injured against tipp, hopefully he is back to 100% and gets some long range scores he was capable of in 2015. Forwards need to be on fire can see joe having to back further free up some space for the Conor's inside

MfMan · 17-08-2017 01:55PM

Motivator wrote: »

I would argue that Brick Walsh is far more deserving of a medal than Joe Canning. An unbelievable servant to the game and has been one of the players of the season so far at 34 years of age.

Debatable. Canning had an excellent league (if you will);led the fightback in Salthill against Waterford, maybe the game that turned Galway's season to date. Very good league final, MOTM v Dublin first round, cruised through game v Offaly (they all did), effective when dropping deep v Wexford, outstanding closing quarter v Tipp. Maybe both will be accommodated?

Motivator · 17-08-2017 02:06PM

MfMan wrote: »

Debatable. Canning had an excellent league (if you will);led the fightback in Salthill against Waterford, maybe the game that turned Galway's season to date. Very good league final, MOTM v Dublin first round, cruised through game v Offaly (they all did), effective when dropping deep v Wexford, outstanding closing quarter v Tipp. Maybe both will be accommodated?

I have no doubt both will get an All Star award at the end of the year but I have been reading lots of comments from people saying they hoped Galway win because Joe Canning "deserves" a medal.

I think this is purely down to the media and the profile he enjoys nationally. Around the 1990s there were many great players and searvents to the game who never got a medal. Just because Joe is a media darling doesn't entitle him to an All Ireland.

I would argue that if medals are "deserved" then surely the Brick is top of that list of all players currently playing the game at Inter County level. The man is a colossus and for him to still be doing what he's doing at 34 is incredible. He's one of the most underrated hurlers of the last 30 years and is probably Waterford's only indespensible player. If Waterford are to win the final, Brick will have a huge say in the game. Would love to see him get his hands on Liam McCarthy in a fortnight.

bruschi · 17-08-2017 02:14PM

I must say, it has been quite amusing seeing the contradictory nature of GAA supporters over the last few weeks.

Tadhg De Burca incident - how could the linesman see it, he's wrong, this is a joke, this needs to be challenged
Austin Gleeson incident - the ref and linesman saw it, they know best, its over, move on

rinse and repeat every year for all counties.

BonnieSituation · 17-08-2017 02:16PM

bruschi wrote: »

I must say, it has been quite amusing seeing the contradictory nature of GAA supporters over the last few weeks.

Tadhg De Burca incident - how could the linesman see it, he's wrong, this is a joke, this needs to be challenged
Austin Gleeson incident - the ref and linesman saw it, they know best, its over, move on

rinse and repeat every year for all counties.

Except Dublin and Diarmuid Connolly...

* legs it *

bruschi · 17-08-2017 02:29PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Except Dublin and Diarmuid Connolly...

* legs it *

get him back hurling at county level and we'll see!

danganabu · 17-08-2017 02:34PM

MfMan wrote: »

Debatable. Canning had an excellent league (if you will);led the fightback in Salthill against Waterford, maybe the game that turned Galway's season to date. Very good league final, MOTM v Dublin first round, cruised through game v Offaly (they all did), effective when dropping deep v Wexford, outstanding closing quarter v Tipp. Maybe both will be accommodated?

Brick is 34, its now or never really for him.

BonnieSituation · 17-08-2017 02:35PM

bruschi wrote: »

get him back hurling at county level and we'll see!

Well, if Pat Gilroy takes over the hurlers...

danganabu · 17-08-2017 02:36PM

Motivator wrote: »

I have no doubt both will get an All Star award at the end of the year

I would have huge doubts about Brick getting one to be honest, as I have said here and in another thread I think he deserves one, but to say that you have no doubt he will get one is fanciful at best.

danganabu · 17-08-2017 03:24PM

Hitchens wrote: »

as Will Munny said ..."deserves got nothing to do with it"

That line made little or no sense in the film either

Dyr · 17-08-2017 03:29PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Well, if Pat Gilroy takes over the hurlers...

Jesus, could you imagine if Connolly, O'Callaghan, Kilkenny et al decided "**** it how many football All Irelands does a man need anyway?" and threw their lot in with Gilroy

There'd be war in county.

BonnieSituation · 17-08-2017 03:48PM

Bambi wrote: »

Jesus, could you imagine if Connolly, O'Callaghan, Kilkenny et al decided "**** it how many football All Irelands does a man need anyway?" and threw their lot in with Gilroy

There'd be war in county.

3 in a row... be deadly... then take Liam home in 2018. That'll do.

MfMan · 17-08-2017 04:01PM

Motivator wrote: »

I have no doubt both will get an All Star award at the end of the year but I have been reading lots of comments from people saying they hoped Galway win because Joe Canning "deserves" a medal.

I think this is purely down to the media and the profile he enjoys nationally. Around the 1990s there were many great players and searvents to the game who never got a medal. Just because Joe is a media darling doesn't entitle him to an All Ireland.

I would argue that if medals are "deserved" then surely the Brick is top of that list of all players currently playing the game at Inter County level. The man is a colossus and for him to still be doing what he's doing at 34 is incredible. He's one of the most underrated hurlers of the last 30 years and is probably Waterford's only indespensible player. If Waterford are to win the final, Brick will have a huge say in the game. Would love to see him get his hands on Liam McCarthy in a fortnight.

As someone said "Deserves got nothing to do with it". Canning is though IMO the best Galway forward I've ever seen, arguably Galway's best ever player and again IMO underrated if anything. He's also far more consistent than he's given credit for. Biased though I am, if you've watched him all through his career, you'd realise his genius, his ability to do the spontaneous, something nobody else would ever pull off. I don't think his ability needs any media endorsement, something he touched on in the Vincent Hogan interview recently. For me, it would be a travesty on a Dermot Earley scale for him not to win the ultimate.

danganabu · 17-08-2017 04:06PM

MfMan wrote: »

Canning is though IMO the best Galway forward I've ever seen

His brother was the best defender Galway ever had imo.

Deise Vu · 17-08-2017 04:09PM

bruschi wrote: »

I must say, it has been quite amusing seeing the contradictory nature of GAA supporters over the last few weeks.

Tadhg De Burca incident - how could the linesman see it, he's wrong, this is a joke, this needs to be challenged
Austin Gleeson incident - the ref and linesman saw it, they know best, its over, move on

rinse and repeat every year for all counties.

That would be mildly amusing except that, to a man, on this forum and up to and including the Waterford County Chairman in the Indo today, everyone in Waterford is saying Austin Gleeson was stupid and he is a lucky, lucky boy that the GAA rulebook is so twisted.

We do wish, I will grant you, that the begrudgers from other counties who won't be involved on September the 3rd would stop coming in here in a vain attempt to wreck our buzz. That says more about you, sorry, them, than it does about Déise fans, but it is wearing thin at this stage.

jr86 · 17-08-2017 04:16PM

All stars are complete recency effect though. The final (and even a potential replay) will have a massive effect

I said · 17-08-2017 04:19PM

Horgan to ref

letowski · 17-08-2017 04:28PM

The timing of when McGrath uses his bench will tell alot. McGrath doesn't select many free scoring forwards (which he has), he opts for more graft and hard working players. That's fine and it worked reasonably well up to the sending off against Cork, they were in touch, only a point or two down. That said Galway are a different and better team than Cork though, and have more scoring potential. I just get the feeling Waterford are going to find it difficult staying with Galway, going score for score over 70 minutes. If Waterford are well in the game after 50 minutes, they have a great chance because they have a good bench and are fit. But if Galway get going up front early and get a goal in the first half, I think they can hold Waterford at arms length on the score board. Galway have the better matchups in the forwards, so its critical McGrath puts the right backs on Canning and Whelan, while Coughlan needs to be well protected on Cooney (as always). Any of these forwards have the ability to inflict serious damage in no time. Also, I would like to see McGrath play Gleeson as a half forward and maybe start Maurice Shanahan, though he won't do the latter.

Dick phelan · 17-08-2017 04:29PM

I love how everyone said's Waterford a defensive team yet we've scored 4 goals against KK 4 against Cork and scored a goal in every championship game we have played this year, Galway in contrast haven't scored a goal all championship. It will be a very tough game, people saying it's Galways to loose but being honest the only top side Galway have played all year is Tipp which took a wonder point from Canning in the last minute to win the game, I think the first 15 mins will tell a lot, if Waterford can keep pace with Galway or even sneak a lead we are a hard nut to crack. A lot more pressure on Galway to win, been in plenty of finals in the last few years and have been the team fancied most since the League final i don't see more then 2-3 points in the game personally.

danganabu · 17-08-2017 04:43PM

Dick phelan wrote: »

I love how everyone said's Waterford a defensive team

Are you trying to claim that they are not??

jr86 · 17-08-2017 04:47PM

I think no matter how any team comes into a final, opposition fans will always pick holes. If galway beat prime kk, tipp and cork it would be something like "they've shown their hand" "they'll be burnt out" "they'll be over-confident" etc.

Don't really see how there's more pressure on galway than Waterford? The fact galway have been there or thereabouts recently would indicate they'll have plenty of chances going forward. Waterford I'm not sure, when was the last time they even won their province? 2010?

jacool · 17-08-2017 04:55PM

Dick phelan wrote: »

I love how everyone said's Waterford a defensive team yet we've scored 4 goals against KK 4 against Cork and scored a goal in every championship game we have played this year, Galway in contrast haven't scored a goal all championship.

I'd say if you check back they may have scored a couple in May !

deise_boi · 17-08-2017 05:03PM

danganabu wrote: »

...I know you are from Waterford but I will be 100% honest with you here and hope you respect my honesty when I say I hope Galway win, firstly as recognition of Joe Canning who deserves to win the biggest honour in the game at least once and secondly I fear that if Waterford win that their 'system' will become the norm and the only reason it hasn't so far is because it has ultimately failed to deliver the big prize, if Waterford do claim the Liam McCarthy it will be akin to when the Northern teams introduced the blanket defence and it suddenly became the norm with a few exceptions....

Nice post, but given the way Waterford have played this system, particularly in a more open pitch like Croker, you can't honestly say it has led to bore fests akin to that of the Northern blanket games?

The two games vs KK last year, the game against KK this year and then last Sunday were some of the better games of hurling over the last two years? I know it isn't pretty when they become slog games such as the Waterford/Wexford game in the new Pairc, but Christ there've been enough dreadful 15v15 games over the years. Yes, we got demolished vs Tipp in the Munster, but sure we went 15v15 in 2008 and got demolished by Kilkenny. It's nothing new - we're Waterford and every now and then we get hockeyed by one of the traditionals!

Win or Lose, I can't see the Waterford plan being adopted across the board. The reason it is successful is that the panel have bought into it and individual players have quality skill sets to execute it. When it clicks, it isn't the eye sore some make it out to be.

I said · 17-08-2017 05:05PM

Dick phelan wrote: »

I love how everyone said's Waterford a defensive team yet we've scored 4 goals against KK 4 against Cork and scored a goal in every championship game we have played this year, Galway in contrast haven't scored a goal all championship. It will be a very tough game, people saying it's Galways to loose but being honest the only top side Galway have played all year is Tipp which took a wonder point from Canning in the last minute to win the game, I think the first 15 mins will tell a lot, if Waterford can keep pace with Galway or even sneak a lead we are a hard nut to crack. A lot more pressure on Galway to win, been in plenty of finals in the last few years and have been the team fancied most since the League final i don't see more then 2-3 points in the game personally.

4 against a one legged Mick fennelly for KK and 3 scored against a 14 man cork team who were always vulnerable to been ran at.

The Talking Bread · 17-08-2017 05:10PM

bruschi wrote: »

I must say, it has been quite amusing seeing the contradictory nature of GAA supporters over the last few weeks.

Tadhg De Burca incident - how could the linesman see it, he's wrong, this is a joke, this needs to be challenged
Austin Gleeson incident - the ref and linesman saw it, they know best, its over, move on

rinse and repeat every year for all counties.

From a lot of debates, whether by fans or media this week, people are a little bit baffled as to how AG got away with it to be fair.
Many criticising the authorities and especially criticising the ref for letting it go.

even the most ardent of Waterford fans were on AG's back for such stupidity, given what happened to his 2 teammates previous and what the stakes were

Obviously we all (apart from the Galway fans) want to see AG in a final, the fella is unreal, but under these circumstances the letter of the law says he shouldn't have got away with it.

danganabu · 17-08-2017 05:12PM

deise_boi wrote: »

Nice post, but given the way Waterford have played this system, particularly in a more open pitch like Croker, you can't honestly say it has led to bore fests akin to that of the Northern blanket games?

In its infancy absolutely yes it was painful to watch, Waterford first perfected it and are now evolving it so yes it is no where near as bad as the blanket defence in football.

The problem will be when/if both teams set up they way that Waterford do and especially when the teams concerned are not as efficient at it as Waterford have become.

Motivator · 17-08-2017 05:17PM

I said wrote: »

4 against a one legged Mick fennelly for KK and 3 scored against a 14 man cork team who were always vulnerable to been ran at.

So Michael Fennelly was in both corners, full back and on the goal that night? Some going for a man with one leg! It's a wonder Waterford didn't score 10 seeing as it was only Michael Fennelly they had to beat.

What other team put 4 past Cork? 14 men or not, Waterford just opened them up like the great team that they are.

danganabu · 17-08-2017 05:29PM

Motivator wrote: »

Waterford just opened them up like the great team that they are.

To be fair they most be some team to get to an AI with a manager like McGrath, how was it you described him again - something about being an embarrassment, an old boys club and I think I remember some lame effort at a joke about eating sandwiches

:D

mountgomery burns · 17-08-2017 06:06PM

In fairness Dangan, lot of teams playing an extra man back before Waterford. Offaly even played 2 lads in between the lines this year.

I think if a team has 6 lethal forwards they'll play the game they think suits them to win. I'd contest what Brennan says about it being a sign you've no confidence in your defence, I think its as much an idea that 15 on 15 the other team might be more effective and have more free scoring.

It puts them under pressure if chasing but bar the outlier of last years Munster finals they've conceded very few goals and as a consequence been close even when behind in the late stages of matches. I remember watching higlights of the 2001 championship and in particular the collapse by Waterford in the second half. If you watch that you can see the value in a tactic that generally prevents opposition from getting many goals.

I said · 17-08-2017 06:10PM

Motivator wrote: »

So Michael Fennelly was in both corners, full back and on the goal that night? Some going for a man with one leg! It's a wonder Waterford didn't score 10 seeing as it was only Michael Fennelly they had to beat.

What other team put 4 past Cork? 14 men or not, Waterford just opened them up like the great team that they are.

Apologies I meant one knee

All Ireland SHC Final (formerly SHC thread) - READ MOD NOTE POST #1

Comments