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All Ireland SHC Final (formerly SHC thread) - READ MOD NOTE POST #1

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Comments

  • #2612
    Poor_old_gill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭Poor_old_gill


    I'm failing to see the argument against suspending him- well other than this ridiculous attempt at a Corinthian 'let the boys play' frame of mind.

    If it had been Joe Canning who had done this then the Waterford lads would be burning theiir blaas if he wasnt suspended!


  • #2613
    Mantis Toboggan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,082 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    Looks like he's going to get away with it, ref isn't putting it in his report. Conor gleeson will miss the final though.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



  • #2614
    HurlingRanker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 120 ✭✭HurlingRanker


    Would be a pity if he was suspended, but if he's not it would be hard not to say the GAA are just making it up as they go along, an accusation that many would already make as it is. There just can't be different rules for marquee players.

    I'd be supportive of a system whereby incidents missed by officials can only be investigated if cited by the opposition team. So in this case it would be Cork's call on whether further investigation is required, and I suspect in this case they might just let it lie as no significant injury/damage was done to their player.


  • #2615
    Mucky_Tackies
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 184 ✭✭Mucky_Tackies


    HurlingRanker wrote: »

    I'd be supportive of a system whereby incidents missed by officials can only be investigated if cited by the opposition team. .

    Thatd never work. Would only lead to backroom deals being done. "Hoi, say nothing there about that one and we'll leave you one in hand you can use for one of your own or against another team we play down the track"


  • #2616
    HurlingRanker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 120 ✭✭HurlingRanker


    Mucky_Tackies wrote: »
    Thatd never work. Would only lead to backroom deals being done. "Hoi, say nothing there about that one and we'll leave you one in hand you can use for one of your own or against another team we play down the track"

    Yeah I wasn't saying that, why would third party teams be involved in any citation?

    Your analogy should be "We'll let you off with that one provided you let us away with one the next time we play you" which would be a very strange deal to make to say the least. "Let us off here and you can have a free shot at us next time we meet".

    If it's a serious enough incident, there would be no "deals" made.


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  • #2617
    PTH2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,837 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Training since before Xmas and your told 'Sorry your not allowed play In the AI final' sadly rules are rules and Connor got caught but they should fight it as it's an opportunity of a lifetime too play in the final. I think Patrick Horgan should put in a word for him and say it was all heat of the moment

    We just have too wait for offical word on Aussie


  • #2618
    danganabu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭danganabu


    Hitchens wrote: »
    5.19 To behave in any way which is dangerous to an
    opponent, including to deliberately pull on or
    take hold of a faceguard or any other part of an
    opponent’s helmet.

    the only person who knows for certain if it's deliberate is the offending player

    I find it very hard to believe anyone can look at that objectively and say he didn't mean it, what exactly was he trying to do??
    Right2Write wrote: »
    Ceist MIf it was as blatant and clear cut as many people are making out, then why didn't the officials deal with it there & then? The fact that they didn't whilst reading the game in real time surely indicates doubt.

    Bad officiating does not equal innocence.
    skytl wrote: »
    What behaviour?

    He pulled a helmet

    All the rest of your beautifully composed post is irrelevant, the quoted bit is it in a nutshell, if he is not suspended - for the sake of the game I kind of hope he isn't - then the rule book may be fcuked out the window as it is worthless and it is clear they just make it up as they go along.


  • #2619
    donnem33
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 485 ✭✭donnem33


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Training since before Xmas and your told 'Sorry your not allowed play In the AI final' sadly rules are rules and Connor got caught but they should fight it as it's an opportunity of a lifetime too play in the final. I think Patrick Horgan should put in a word for him and say it was all heat of the moment

    We just have too wait for offical word on Aussie

    Brian O'Meara from Tipperary in 2001 did a lot less and had to miss the final for his stupidity too!!

    You cannot deliberately strike a player and hope not to serve a suspension just because its an All Ireland Final.


  • #2620
    AGC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭AGC


    It is a joke if he is not suspended no matter what stage of the championship it is.

    As clear cut an infringement as you will see all year.


  • #2621
    Right2Write
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,356 ✭✭✭Right2Write


    Robson99 wrote: »
    If Gleeson gets away with this they would be as well to forget about wearing helmets altogether

    Typical of the hyperbole surrounding this. Look at the pre helmet lads and their missing teeth, scars etc.


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  • #2622
    AGC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,648 ✭✭✭AGC


    skytl wrote: »
    What behaviour?

    He pulled a helmet, something that happened quickly over a split second.

    To slow it down into slow motion, freeze the image etc in an effort to prove that Austin Gleeson should be suspended for an All Ireland final is an absolute disgrace.

    Is this what the GAA has come to?

    Not only trying to get a player banned from an All Ireland but, as many are, taking pleasure in it?

    The bitterness is becoming more and more like the keyboard warriors who follow Premier League soccer.

    The only thing they forget is that Austin doesn't get a big wage packet at the end of every week.

    The abuse that he has got on social media over the last 24 hours is shameful to read.

    Anyone who knows Austin knows he's as dedicated to hurling and this team as can be.

    Often up in the school with the kids encouraging them and helping them with their hurling.

    And then clowns who have nothing better to do flippantly give his abuse and call for him to be banned from an All Ireland, over something minor, on the internet.

    Then, ex players twist the knife in live on national television.

    The only kind of person who would like to see Austin banned is someone who is jealous or bitter.

    What a stupid post.

    No matter how dedicated (and you wont find many not at this stage of championship), no matter how many camps he does with kids etc... should exclude him from punishment.

    He should have been sent off on the day and would not have won an appeal.

    Gleeson is an outstanding player and would add to any hurling match but he should be suspended.

    It happens in all sports, Roy Keane suspended for CL final, Blanc in world cup final, Cian Healy in European cup semi final etc...

    Obviously don't agree with abuse of him but how are people bitter or jealous because the rules should apply??


  • #2623
    BENDYBINN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,939 ✭✭✭BENDYBINN


    AGC wrote: »
    It is a joke if he is not suspended no matter what stage of the championship it is.

    As clear cut an infringement as you will see all year.

    Agree,as deliberate a pull on a helmet as you will ever see. To let it go would make the gaa look very foolish given the de Barca affair and all the appeals


  • #2624
    irelandrover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,002 ✭✭✭irelandrover


    So the ref will say he is happy how he reffed the match so Gleeson gets off.

    Is the ref questioned in private exactly why he thought a pull on the faceguard is not a red card offence in the game?
    Surely he shows incompetence if he saw it during the game and didnt punish it.


  • #2625
    mountgomery burns
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,148 ✭✭✭mountgomery burns


    donnem33 wrote: »
    Brian O'Meara from Tipperary in 2001 did a lot less and had to miss the final for his stupidity too!!

    You cannot deliberately strike a player and hope not to serve a suspension just because its an All Ireland Final.

    Cyril Donnellan did a lot more in the 2015 all ireland semi on James
    Woodlock and was not cited. Gleeson is lucky but swings and roundabouts and christ we've had enough fruitless appeals when there was just cause.


  • #2626
    Hitchens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,108 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    conor05 wrote: »
    Gleeson is 100% going to get away with this. He is the next big thing in hurling, and the powers that be in Croke Park will want a Gleeson v Canning build up to the All Ireland.
    What he done was wrong, but James Owens has said yesterday when contacted by the CCCC that he was happy how he officiated the game.
    That's more or less Gleeson off the hook.
    It was all done a bit hush, hush, wink, wink id imagine to make sure he got off!

    Is Touhy in the clear as well?


  • #2627
    C__MC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,403 ✭✭✭C__MC


    conor05 wrote: »
    ''Also how did diarmuid Connolly get off, at his dra hearing two years ago.

    Connolly got off because Dublin secretary John Costello is one powerful man and Croke Park/DRA would never ruffle Dublin's feathers too much (Croke Parks Cash Cow).
    Connolly just didn't bother appealing this summer because he is back for the semi-final anyway.
    Waterford do not have the same power within GAA as Dublin, De Burca case is an example of this.[/quote]

    100 per cent connolly would have got off if he appealed in June


  • #2628
    bruschi
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,149 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Training since before Xmas and your told 'Sorry your not allowed play In the AI final' sadly rules are rules and Connor got caught but they should fight it as it's an opportunity of a lifetime too play in the final. I think Patrick Horgan should put in a word for him and say it was all heat of the moment

    We just have too wait for offical word on Aussie

    You should change around your post to read something more like this:

    Training since before Xmas and you go and do something as stupid as grab the faceguard of your opponent and rip his helmet off when two of your team mates have already served suspensions for that exact infringement and being told "sorry, you are suspended for the AI final as per the rules for something you did."

    Its massively disappointing if the 2 Gleesons miss out, but there is no one to blame for this but themselves. No one. Aussie did not have to rake his hand up the faceguard, grab it and keep pulling it off. Conor, stupidly pulled on another player whilst lying down and the ball 50 yards away from him. They did these actions, not the GAA who may or may not suspend them


  • #2629
    C__MC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,403 ✭✭✭C__MC


    Irish examiner reporting gleeson has escaped his punishment.

    Some cop out by James Owens and the GAA.

    It would not be tolerated in any other sport


  • #2630
    danganabu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭danganabu


    C__MC wrote: »
    Irish examiner reporting gleeson has escaped his punishment.

    Some cop out by James Owens and the GAA.

    It would not be tolerated in any other sport

    I would expect that Owens, if that is the case, will be removed from the inter county panel for next year, surely knowing the rule book is a pre-requisite for any official?


  • #2631
    ForestFire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,031 ✭✭✭ForestFire


    Touhy clearly broke the rules as per the rule book also, but nobody wants to see him suspended for the final even in Waterford.

    Touhy caught the helmet and pulled it off the player, it did not just fall off, force was required, and the helmet needed to be replaced after incident.

    Waterford people only highlighted this as a defense for Tadgh, which, on the video available, looked a lot less than the Touhy incident.

    Austin's clearly looks a lot worse than Touhy, but in the end it is the same offence, and the same defense will be used.

    Similar to Conor's strike, this is on the very low end of striking but most Waterford people believe it was stupid and very little change of appealing this one (Although I think they will and should try at least). So if Touhy's is on the low end of the scale compared to Austin that's fine but its still technically a rule break?

    The problem is the inconsistency with the helmet rule and the way it is applied to different incidents.

    I believe what will happened (or be reported) is that the linesman saw the incident, but from his angle he could not see the side were Austins hand was. Therefore to him it might appear that Austins arm was locked between the players shoulder and helmet and as he pulled his arm free it pulled the helmet off because of this.

    Is it right, I don't know, but it does clearly show that something needs to change:-

    1) The rule itself -
    If it was yellow card for interfering only, without danger or injury, then the refs could give this for Touhy without the pressure of Red or nothing.

    The Red card would be for reckless Interfering causing danger or injury to player - Again the ref can decide on the day if it is more sever enough to warrant this. Maybe Austins would fit into this if it was seen clearly, maybe not?

    But at least this give the ref more options on the day to take the entire situation into account.

    Maybe a black card could be introduced instead of the yellow?

    I think then there would be less need for the video appeals and the endless comparisons and debates, and the media attention.


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  • #2632
    threeball
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,098 ✭✭✭threeball


    danganabu wrote: »
    I would expect that Owens, if that is the case, will be removed from the inter county panel for next year, surely knowing the rule book is a pre-requisite for any official?

    Not a chance. I'm sure someone had a word in his ear as to what the brass wanted to see in the report. That meant it doesn't even have to come in front of them so no awkward questions. Gaa discipline is a sham. Totally dependent on who you are, who you know or whether you're central to topping up their coffers a bit.


  • #2633
    danganabu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭danganabu


    threeball wrote: »
    Not a chance. I'm sure someone had a word in his ear as to what the brass wanted to see in the report. That meant it doesn't even have to come in front of them so no awkward questions. Gaa discipline is a sham. Totally dependent on who you are, who you know or whether you're central to topping up their coffers a bit.

    Exactly, and with the utmost respect to say Brain O'Halloran or Tommy Ryan or Jake Dillon etc. does anyone even think there would be doubt or a debate, they would simply be suspended and that would be the end of it, it's a joke, but look it's been that way since Adam was a boy. The Tony Keady(RIP) affair was the one time they didn't bow to public opinion and outside influence and people are still talking about it 30 years later.


  • #2634
    Hitchens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,108 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    danganabu wrote: »
    Exactly, and with the utmost respect to say Brain O'Halloran or Tommy Ryan or Jake Dillon etc. does anyone even think there would be doubt or a debate, they would simply be suspended and that would be the end of it, it's a joke, but look it's been that way since Adam was a boy. The Tony Keady(RIP) affair was the one time they didn't bow to public opinion and outside influence and people are still talking about it 30 years later.

    some would they DID bow to 'outside' influence that time!


  • #2635
    danganabu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭danganabu


    Hitchens wrote: »
    some would they DID bow to 'outside' influence that time!

    Not going to open up that can of worms but both the GAA in America and the Tipperary County Board, despite what some Galway people like to peddle, both spoke on behalf and attempted to have him cleared to play and Croke Park were having none of it. They took a Maggie Thatcher approach of ''rules are rule'' etc.


  • #2636
    deadybai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭deadybai


    I can't believe Gleeson is getting away with the helmet pull. It was the most blatant out of all the recent incidents. It's black or white .


  • #2637
    Utopia Parkway
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,034 ✭✭✭✭Utopia Parkway


    ForestFire wrote: »
    Touhy clearly broke the rules as per the rule book also, but nobody wants to see him suspended for the final even in Waterford.

    Touhy caught the helmet and pulled it off the player, it did not just fall off, force was required, and the helmet needed to be replaced after incident.

    Waterford people only highlighted this as a defense for Tadgh, which, on the video available, looked a lot less than the Touhy incident.

    Austin's clearly looks a lot worse than Touhy, but in the end it is the same offence, and the same defense will be used.

    Similar to Conor's strike, this is on the very low end of striking but most Waterford people believe it was stupid and very little change of appealing this one (Although I think they will and should try at least). So if Touhy's is on the low end of the scale compared to Austin that's fine but its still technically a rule break?

    The Tuohy and Gleeson incidents are similar but also quite different. Gleeson's I think was almost 100% deliberate and intentional. Tuohy's was probably unintentional. Granted how do you prove this? It's difficult.

    And deliberate is a part of the rule.

    TDB's is different again as the TV pictures were not as clear as Tuohy's or Gleeson's but the linesman's view of it is what condemned TDB.


  • #2638
    Hitchens
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,108 ✭✭✭Hitchens


    deadybai wrote: »
    . It's black or white .

    more like grey ...ish


  • #2639
    Deiseen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭Deiseen


    danganabu wrote: »
    Hitchens wrote: »
    some would they DID bow to 'outside' influence that time!

    Not going to open up that can of worms but both the GAA in America and the Tipperary County Board, despite what some Galway people like to peddle, both spoke on behalf and attempted to have him cleared to play and Croke Park were having none of it. They took a Maggie Thatcher approach of ''rules are rule'' etc.
    Not so, it came down to a vote and Galway's Connaught neighbours voted against letting him play.


  • #2640
    Deiseen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭Deiseen


    danganabu wrote: »
    Hitchens wrote: »
    some would they DID bow to 'outside' influence that time!

    Not going to open up that can of worms but both the GAA in America and the Tipperary County Board, despite what some Galway people like to peddle, both spoke on behalf and attempted to have him cleared to play and Croke Park were having none of it. They took a Maggie Thatcher approach of ''rules are rule'' etc.
    Not so, it came down to a vote and Galway's Connaught neighbours voted against letting him play.


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  • #2641
    danganabu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭danganabu


    Deiseen wrote: »
    Not so, it came down to a vote and Galway's Connaught neighbours voted against letting him play.

    And Tipp voted to let him play, a fact that is brushed under the carpet by the conspiracy theorists!

    Anyway bit off topic and especially considering recent events. My main over-riding point been that Gleeson's profile should have absolutely nothing to do with any decision but clearly will. A very weak argument has been made about think of poor Aussie and missing the big day etc. well I would counter argue that with that young Meade is just as important as Gleeson and to allow a blatant breach of the rule does a disservice to him and all other potential 'victims'


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