Fight Time From 4am-McGregor vs Mayweather**MOD Warning in 1st Post**

Naos wrote: »

That makes zero sense, you don't know if it's going to happen or not.

What unknown is there in boxing then?

Also, what variables does boxing have that MMA does not?

Simply put, word class specialisation in a specific art.
That's what boxing has that MMA genreally doesn't.

Now in MMA there are a handful of exemptions, mostly from BJJ, Jacare, Maia, Augusto Mendes, Ryan Hall, etc, who come from BJJ/Grappling backgrounds who eventually decide to attempt MMA because their earning potential in BJJ competition is topped out a pittance per year + seminars, unfortunately. You could probably throw olympic/NCAA wrestlers in there for the same reason, after college/olympic competition there is nowhere else for them to go.

The reason top class boxing prospects don't end up converting to MMA is because the ceiling for earning for decent contender at international level in professional boxing is multiples that of the potential income for an average MMA fighter. Why would they commit to 5 fight 12 to show 12 to win mma contracts in an organisation where you're at the whims of the promoter as to whether you get a fight, rather than in a sport protected by the Ali Act?

The sooner the Ali Act is applied to MMA and scumbags like Dana White are cut out the better. For the last 2 decades warriors have put their lives on the line for a pittance while lowlifes like Dana and the Fritata sisters make a killing off of them.

The fact that Zuffa get a large chunk of Conor's purse and earnings from this fight is sickening, he should be protected by the Ali Act and be clearing 150+ easily. The fact that in MMA the promoter is both the promoter, booker and sanctioning body is disgusting and the sooner the class action by Fitch, Couture, etc is heard and applied to MMA the better.

wonderfullife wrote: »

I get the impression you used to box at an amateur level and are outraged that boxers are not the toughest fighters anymore. Nobody fears boxers anymore, people fear mixed martial artists.

That will become even clearer when Conor beats Floyd.

You seem to have a real chip on your shoulder towards boxing... despite claiming to have been watching the sport since the 1980's (:pac:)... and also despite the fact that boxing skills are HUGELY important to MMA.

(how much does Conor owe to Crumlin boxing club, for all his success in the UFC?? I would argue quite a bit... even though he left before they could turn him into a top boxer. They still gave him enough to win fights in a cage!!)

What is your big gripe with boxing??

Boxing is a specialisation... there is nothing wrong with being a high level specialist. It gives you the opportunity to be great a one set of skills... and it also gives you the chance to build outstanding levels of athleticism!

MMA is more well rounded... but at the same time, it's a "jack-of-all-trades... master-of-none" type discipline.

In MMA, it's pretty much impossible to be great at everything. There is this big myth in the MMA world, that they are creating perfect all-round fighters... but this is just not true at all. (that's obviously the dream... but it has not become a reality thus far)

It is actually the specialists that tend to have more success in MMA, when they turn their best skills against other fighters with weaknesses in those departments (Cormier/olympic wrestler.... Rousey/olympic Judo.... Conor/high level striking.... jones/high level striking.... Anderson/high level striking.... GSP/great at sitting on top of people for a whole fight(:p).... you get the picture)

It's actually very difficult to be great at everything. Almost impossible I would argue... and even if you do reach a level, where you are solid in all departments... quite often you will not reach the top, because you have sacrificed being better at one of those skillsets. (there are lots of fighters like this in the UFC)

Then you come to the athleticism factor... I would argue that specialists have a better chance to reach a higher level of athleticism, than fighters who are trying to be a "jack-of-all-trades"... this is because, the skillsets within MMA, do not really blend together very well.

They are all very different athletically... so they require very different movements from your body. If you try to be great at wrestling AND boxing, for example, you're just going to end up being average at both. Because physically, they are two very different things!

So choosing to focus more on striking or more on your ground game... in effect becoming somewhat of a specialist within the MMA world.... is actually a smarter choice, if you want to reach the top of the sport.

(so perhaps you shouldn't look down your nose quite so much, at specialists like boxers... considering you have so many examples of specialisation within MMA itself!)

I like the sport of MMA... I like the idea of creating the perfect balanced fighter... but right now that's all it really is... AN IDEA... A DREAM... it's a very young sport, and nobody has actually figured out how to achieve "the perfect all-round fighter"... and their levels of athleticism are also often sadly lacking from those in individual (specialist) sports!

You're going to see all of this on Aug 26th... we're all going to see it... we're going to see one of MMA's top specialist strikers, going up against a true elite specialist at one of those striking disciplines!

We're also going to find out if the 40 year old elite specialist, has better athleticism than the 29 year old MMA fighter... we're going to find out if all that wrestling and BJJ training, has made Conor a better or worse athlete than Floyd... who has focused solely on being great athletically for one thing: Boxing!

Despite focussing more on striking... my guess, is that Conor's training in wrestling and BJJ (among other things) will be a huge impediment to him matching Floyd athletically in a boxing ring... and this is despite him being the much younger athlete!

I think Conor is going to struggle badly physically in there, against the high level specialist athlete. I think it's Conor that will look like the 40 year old... Floyd will be moving around like the 29 year old... both physically and technically, Floyd is going to look like the younger man in there!

This fact alone, will make this event one of the strangest spectacles in "sporting" history!! :pac:

ThinkProgress wrote: »

What is your big gripe with boxing??


You're going to see all of this on Aug 26th... we're all going to see it... we're going to see one of MMA's top specialist strikers, going up against a true elite specialist at one of those striking disciplines!

I love boxing.

I just think Conor is going to beat Floyd and a lot of the boxing purists are speaking from a position of ignorance and delusion when they speak of the 'sweet science' relative to MMA.

We'll find out in 13 days.

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Wha the hell are you on about

There's footage of Katie Taylor sparring Guillermo Rigondeaux, they are about the same height, about the same weight (Katie is actually slightly heavier), Rigo is considered the current #1 ranked Super Bantam Weight and one of the top pound 4 pound boxers on the planet.

In the footage Katie is seen hitting Rigo clean several times.

Does this mean she can beat Rigo?

Of course not.

I'm sorry, where's the strawman? You threw out two names and I pointed out that you were talking nonsense.

You chose to pick a world class MMA fighter (ranked 5th in the UFC, former WSOF champion, NCAA D1 All American) and a world class boxer, and the point I made still rings true.

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

I'm sorry, where's the strawman? You threw out two names and I pointed out that you were talking nonsense.

An "average mma fighter" does not equal "professional boxing contender".

It's not a fair comparison and it was misleading to suggest boxing earnings ceiling is multiple times that of MMA, when in reality it's not even double.

Bloody Elbow did a good study on it. Boxing and MMA salaries are broadly similar at the lower and mid-tier levels and slowly converging at the top level thanks to recent salaries by the likes of Conor, Brock Lesnar, etc. Even DC got $1 million disclosed + PPV points recently for a rumoured take home pay of $3 million.

wonderfullife wrote: »

An "average mma fighter" does not equal "professional boxing contender".

It's not a fair comparison and it was misleading to suggest boxing earnings ceiling is multiple times that of MMA, when in reality it's not even double.

Bloody Elbow did a good study on it. Boxing and MMA salaries are broadly similar at the lower and mid-tier levels and slowly converging at the top level thanks to recent salaries by the likes of Conor, Brock Lesnar, etc. Even DC got $1 million disclosed + PPV points recently for a rumoured take home pay of $3 million.

What I actuallt said was;

The reason top class boxing prospects don't end up converting to MMA is because the ceiling for earning for decent contender at international level in professional boxing is multiples that of the potential income for an average MMA fighter.

For someone like Joe Ward or Mick Conlan, their earning potential in professional Boxing, even if they only reach the level of international level contender (which is NOT world championship level), they would make multiples what they would in MMA. They could spend several years learning ground work, but they'd still only be striking specialists in MMA. If they focus on boxing their potential is infinitely higher.

That's a stone cold fact.

The only reason why specialists from grappling arts like collegiate wrestling and BJJ decide to enter MMA is because after collegiate wrestling there is no career besides training with the american olympic wrestling team in denver for pittance, that's why D1 all americans like Woodley, Hendrix, Geathje, DC, etc move into MMA, there's nowhere else for them to go to make a living.

As for BJJ, after wining a few Copa's, Mundials, ADCC trials, etc, you've maxed your earning potential from competition at a pitiful number. You can throw in a few seminars and super fights in Fight2Win/EBI/Polaris for a few grand at a pop as well, but eventually the best grapplers like Dannis, Hall, Rafael Lovato Jr, Maia, Souza, Augusto Mendes, Mackenzie Dern, Gabi Garcia, etc, etc, etc, move into MMA because despite the earnings in MMa being low, the earnings in the chose specialisation are even lower.

That's way AJ went from the olympics to professional boxing and DC went from the olympics to Strikeforce, or why Maia went from Mundials to UFC, or Kron Gracie ended up in Rizin.