Complaint about haunted bread on Late Late Show

realdanbreen · 10-08-2017 11:05am

....... wrote: »

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You have a point alright, probably none.

smacl · 10-08-2017 11:50am

realdanbreen wrote: »

Oh I think most atheists have a lot in common.EG they seem to spend almost as much time attending church services, weddings, confirmations, communions, funerals etc as most believers do.

As you correctly point out above, the desire to avoid going to church where there is any reasonable excuse not to is something common to atheists and religious people alike, or more simply, most of the population of Ireland. It is not something specific to atheists. People clearly just don't like going to church :pac:

Samaris · 10-08-2017 11:59am

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

I have met, and worked with, a hell of a lot of atheists and I am yet to meet one myself who attended any such service because they did not want to offend.

EVERY atheist *I* (YEMV) have discussed this with goes to such services because the service means something to their friend or their family member, and it means something to them AND that friend and family member to share in such life events that are TO THEM significant.

Actually, I have gone to services to not offend/upset my partner's very religious older mother when visiting her. I don't know that this is a crime that deserves the extent of the disapproval of the person you're responding to, but being that I am an individual rather than just "an atheist", I reckon I can make my own decisions in my own circumstances without my decision being representative of or relevant to any other atheists!

When I'm a visitor at someone's house, I will fall in with their customs, including the Rosary and the likes (although I do wish the words didn't get changed so often), because I will only be there a short time and I see no reason to cause kerfuffle and/or make things awkward for my partner.

My own principles remain the same, but I am not so rigid as to demand that my principles get first dibs as a visitor, especially in a relatively unimportant matter (although I don't take Communion as it feels weird to me and disrespectful to the general purpose of it as I am not "qualified" to receive it, seeing I've not been to Confession in years*). Likewise, I'd be fine (and interested, tbh) visiting a mosque or a temple, but I would not take part in specific rituals that only the religious should be partaking in.

*Sure, I know most Catholics receiving it haven't either, but that's none of my concern.

kylith · 10-08-2017 12:12pm

Peregrinus wrote: »

It's amusing to see atheists getting all pontifical and issuing infallible pronouncements about what is, and what is not, a "central Christian belief". While this is a belief commonly held by Christians, it's also a belief commonly rejected by Christians. The only way to know whether Da Boss believes this is to ask him, and simply asserting that he believes it without having taken that simple step is, yeah, something he might conceivably find quite offensive.

Hell isn't a central Christian belief anymore? That'll be news to the pope.

Peregrinus wrote: »

See, here's the thing. Fr. Whatsisname says that he finds what was said about the eucharist quite offensive, and the general response in this forum has been, well, you just have to suck that up, Father. Fair enough. But if you take that stance, and then immediately go on to impute offensive beliefs to other people so that you can get all offended by the beliefs you have imputed to them - well, Pot, I'd like you to meet Kettle. If Fr. Whatisname has to suck up the offense he felt watching the Late Late, then you certainly have to suck up the offense that you have manufactured for yourself so that you can gratify your need to be offended.

Who's offended? I'm not offended. I said it was a more offensive belief than joking about bread.

Personally, threats of hell are like threatening me with Santa not coming, or going to Mordor when I die.

RustyNut · 10-08-2017 1:28pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

Oh I think most atheists have a lot in common.EG they seem to spend almost as much time attending church services, weddings, confirmations, communions, funerals etc as most believers do. They will give the excuse for doing so as not wishing to offend anyone. I don't think strong principles were ever founded on 'not wishing to offend anyone'.

Would you not attend a major life ceremony of a close friend if it took place in a temple, mosque or synagogue? If you object to non christians attending your church maybe you should see if they will put a sign on the door, NO ATHEISTS MUSLIMS OR JEWS.

nozzferrahhtoo · 10-08-2017 1:34pm

Samaris wrote: »

Actually, I have gone to services to not offend/upset my partner's very religious older mother when visiting her.

You're certainly a first for me

I know in my own position I would simply not go, if I did not want to, and to hell with how much it offends her. In fact when I am in their house at Christmas, the Inlaws do go to Christmas mass, and I simply said "no thank you" every time and never even stopped to ask or notice whether it offended them or not. I do not think it did though, they are not that type to be concerned either way.

But if she was having a particular event or ceremony I WOULD go, not to avoid offending her as my mother inlaw, but because a particular life ceremony........... lets imagine after 50 years of marriage her and my father in law were renewing their vows or some such........ then I would go for no other reason that it is an important ceremony for them personally and I want to be at events that are important to them in that sense.

Hell I even went to the Christening of one of my nieces and took the role of "godfather".

robindch · 10-08-2017 2:45pm

Peregrinus wrote: »

It's amusing to see atheists getting all pontifical and issuing infallible pronouncements about what is, and what is not, a "central Christian belief".

In all fairness Peregrinus, I've said nothing of the kind, infallible or not

Peregrinus wrote: »

See, here's the thing. Fr. Whatsisname says that he finds what was said about the eucharist quite offensive, and the general response in this forum has been, well, you just have to suck that up, Father. Fair enough. But if you take that stance, and then immediately go on to impute offensive beliefs to other people so that you can get all offended by the beliefs you have imputed to them - well, Pot, I'd like you to meet Kettle.

You're saying that I'm asking just to be able to huff and puff some high-octane offense? Not really :rolleyes:

What would have been nice is for Da Boss to confirm what exactly his/her beliefs were and what names he/she is referring to when he/she says 'I've my names for atheists too' - A+A is a discussion forum after all. If Da Boss doesn't want to confirm whatever's the relevant meat of the conversation at that point, then, that's his/her own business, but it's not going to make for much of a discussion if one side is asking questions to figure out what somebody's referring to, while the other side - and Da Boss's post from 08:01 this morning seems to be in this vein - is slapping its straw hat on its head, stuffing its cardboard suitcase under its arm and scarpering, a little red-faced.

Samaris · 10-08-2017 2:47pm

Nah, that's also a perfectly fair way to go about it, just my personal choice as a guest in my fiance's mother's house is to fall in with her customs and wishes. Besides, there's also awkward Irish customs that I tend to fall afoul of anyway, plus the issue that my accent causes problems with communication, so I don't really want to insert another bone of contention where it is not necessary and would only upset her for relatively little gain. Same way my fiance can argue religion with his mother if he likes, I will generally stay out of it in her home. I will also politely eat mashed vegetables, which I generally hate with a fiery passion that goes beyond mere religion!

When in Rome, I'll generally do as the Romans do, even if I don't particularly believe in it -unless- there is a good reason in my own mind not to. Going to Mass won't cause me to spontaneously combust and I feel no risk of being converted back*

I make a stand at it being forced on a national level or religious influences that cannot be gainsaid rather than personal choices for specific reasons.

*Actually, if I did feel a risk of being converted back, that would make me more likely to challenge myself by going to Mass rather than a lingering uncertainty and avoiding the "temptation", but again, personal thing.

robindch · 10-08-2017 2:58pm

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

I have met, and worked with, a hell of a lot of atheists and I am yet to meet one myself who attended any such service because they did not want to offend.

Not sure if this is applicable, but but I have attended a couple of religious services which I'd much prefer to have avoided - purely for political reasons.

Last one was for Popette, one of whose major wedding anniversaries passed by not too long ago. In the total absence of interest from anybody else in the extended family, I decided - for no reason beyond that I'm the eldest in the following generation and I knew that her long-suffering hubby would be mightily cheered to see the slightest family support - to attend an SSPX Resistance service at St John's Church at the corner of York Road and Tivoli Road in Dun Laoghaire, and to stay for the marriage renewal vows which Popette had requested after the service.

The priest, a tall, noisy man on the cusp of old age, and with exuberantly awful teeth through which air and saliva sailed effortlessly, forgot that he'd promised to renew the vows and was leaving the church when Popette collared him and returned him to the altar where she and hubby resumed kneeling at the altar rail. Mr Priest dropped back into the vestry to find his book of prayers, returned, then read, at the speed of light, several pages from close to the end of his Latin prayer book, at one point skipping several pages because he didn't "think that these are very relevant". Nobody beyond yours truly understood much of the Latin, some of which he misread. At the end, and liberally doused with his saliva, Popette and hubby stood up and seemed satisfied. Job done, I thought.

Does that count?

realdanbreen · 10-08-2017 2:59pm

RustyNut wrote: »

Would you not attend a major life ceremony of a close friend if it took place in a temple, mosque or synagogue? If you object to non christians attending your church maybe you should see if they will put a sign on the door, NO ATHEISTS MUSLIMS OR JEWS.

I never mentioned Christians or any other denomination for that matter!

RustyNut · 10-08-2017 3:07pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

I never mentioned Christians or any other denomination for that matter!

You did mention confirmations and communions. How many non christian religions perform these rituals?

Any answer to the question I asked, would you not attend a major life ceremony of a close friend or family member because it took place in a place of worship that you are not a member of?

realdanbreen · 10-08-2017 4:01pm

RustyNut wrote: »

You did mention confirmations and communions. How many non christian religions perform these rituals?

Any answer to the question I asked, would you not attend a major life ceremony of a close friend or family member because it took place in a place of worship that you are not a member of?

Of course I would because I believe in a higher power. I would not however attend any religious ceremony if I was a genuine atheist and I would most certainly not be that lily livered that I would attend in order to please parents or parents in law as many have said they do on the A&Aforums.

....... · 10-08-2017 4:03pm

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kylith · 10-08-2017 4:05pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

Of course I would because I believe in a higher power. I would not however attend any religious ceremony if I was a genuine atheist and I would most certainly not be that lily livered that I would attend in order to please parents or parents in law as many have said they do on the A&Aforums.

I don't see it as lilly livered, I would see it as attending out of respect for family; they want me to be there, so I go. I sit down the back and I don't participate (though I mentally convert the church into a house to pass the time), but I'm there because they're my family and I love them and want to show my support, even if I don't agree with it.

realdanbreen · 10-08-2017 4:13pm

kylith wrote: »

I don't see it as lilly livered, I would see it as attending out of respect for family; they want me to be there, so I go. I sit down the back and I don't participate (though I mentally convert the church into a house to pass the time), but I'm there because they're my family and I love them and want to show my support, even if I don't agree with it.

Fair enough although you seem to be suggesting that sitting down the back and not participating is somehow showing respect to your family. The bottom line in your case is that you are not an atheist. An Atheist would have no truck with religion or anything to do with religion and those people I do respect.

....... · 10-08-2017 4:16pm

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storker · 10-08-2017 4:16pm

smacl wrote: »

Very many Catholics also seem to thoroughly enjoy strong religious humour that was previously banned due to being offensive to Catholics, Father Ted being the best example of this, and of course Life of Brian. The argument that the Rubber Bandits humorously talking about haunted bread is offensive to most Catholics would appear to be specious on this basis. One priest in Kerry taking the hump and a few more hard liners following suit is hardly representative of the views of 'most Catholics'.

I remember that even back in the 70s and 80s Dave Allen was quite popular, and he could hardly have been been accused of any great respect for the church, at least not in his material.

realdanbreen · 10-08-2017 4:40pm

....... wrote: »

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Really? Why don't you track down a genuine atheist and ask him/her.
They will tell you that although they haven't any time for religion or the religious they have even less for time for people pleasing wannabe atheists.

....... · 10-08-2017 4:53pm

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RustyNut · 10-08-2017 4:55pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

Really? Why don't you track down a genuine atheist and ask him/her.
They will tell you that although they haven't any time for religion or the religious they have even less for time for people pleasing wannabe atheists.

That sounds like a fundamentalist atheist rather than a run of the mill atheist that just doesn't believe in gods.

smacl · 10-08-2017 4:56pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

Really? Why don't you track down a genuine atheist and ask him/her.
They will tell you that although they haven't any time for religion or the religious they have even less for time for people pleasing wannabe atheists.

Or maybe you could just look it up in any dictionary, where you'd find out that an atheist is a person who doesn't believe in a god or gods. No more, no less. And I say that as an atheist. If you think any different, perhaps you could post a reference to your definition in any common dictionary?

kylith · 10-08-2017 5:04pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

Fair enough although you seem to be suggesting that sitting down the back and not participating is somehow showing respect to your family. The bottom line in your case is that you are not an atheist. An Atheist would have no truck with religion or anything to do with religion and those people I do respect.

Soooo, I should be a dick to my family to satisfy what you think a "real" atheist should do?

I don't believe in any gods, this makes me a real atheist. That's the long and short of it.

storker · 10-08-2017 5:05pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

Really? Why don't you track down a genuine atheist and ask him/her.
They will tell you that although they haven't any time for religion or the religious they have even less for time for people pleasing wannabe atheists.

I call No True Scotsman Fallacy on this one.

I'm a genuine atheist and you can take it from me that you are talking rubbish. There is no book of rules for atheists. Atheists are free to choose to attend or boycott any event or occasion, or associate with or ignore anyone they like.

robindch · 10-08-2017 5:42pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

The bottom line in your case is that you are not an atheist. An Atheist would have no truck with religion or anything to do with religion and those people I do respect.

Wasn't there one of the commandments about not bearing false witness against your neighbour? :rolleyes:

Can't remember if the Vatican took it off the books though.

looksee · 10-08-2017 6:08pm

You see the problem is, realdanbreen, that instead of getting het up by your - what amounts to trolling, I say that as a mod, - we are happy to just let you ramble on making your arguments look more and more silly. You can have any opinion you like of atheists, we don't care much. If it gets more to actual trolling than amounting to it then we might have to step in and remonstrate.

Pherekydes · 10-08-2017 6:33pm

robindch wrote: »

Wasn't there one of the commandments about not bearing false witness against your neighbour? :rolleyes:

Can't remember if the Vatican took it off the books though.

Is it in the charter? :P

o1s1n · 10-08-2017 6:37pm

realdanbreen wrote: »

Fair enough although you seem to be suggesting that sitting down the back and not participating is somehow showing respect to your family. The bottom line in your case is that you are not an atheist. An Atheist would have no truck with religion or anything to do with religion and those people I do respect.

You actually have it the wrong way around.

smokingman · 10-08-2017 8:43pm

I'm still waiting for these names de boss has for me

realdanbreen · 11-08-2017 8:27am

storker wrote: »

I call No True Scotsman Fallacy on this one.

I'm a genuine atheist and you can take it from me that you are talking rubbish. There is no book of rules for atheists. Atheists are free to choose to attend or boycott any event or occasion, or associate with or ignore anyone they like.

Absolutely. Atheists are of course free as a breeze to do as they wish unlike the situation in Atheist States like North Korea where those practising religion are persecuted.

Delirium · 11-08-2017 8:41am

realdanbreen wrote: »

Absolutely. Atheists are of course free as a breeze to do as they wish unlike the situation in Atheist States like North Korea where those practising religion are persecuted.

okay who had Friday @ 8.27am in "Grrr! Atheists!" bingo?

Complaint about haunted bread on Late Late Show

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