Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

Minderbinder · 01-08-2017 11:20AM

TheDoc wrote: »

That is a gross exaggeration of Carricks ability to be honest. He is starting to get to Scholes level of inflation. I don't understand why it is fans just spin myths and overblow a players ability as they come to the end of their career.

Carrick had a wonderful instinct of looking to pass forward first, but his passing was above average, but nowhere near special. He recycled as much as anyone else, and every now and then would hit a lovely long range pass setting someone in on goal or down a flank.

Personally, I've seen Blind be more productive and talented with his passing during his brief stint at DM, at CB and LB. It's why I just don't get why I'm constantly alone calling for Blind to figure more, he's just a better player then Carrick at the time the pair have been teammates, but then if people have that sort of mythical opinion on Carrick there really is no debate.

GTFO

bangkok · 01-08-2017 11:47AM

TheDoc wrote: »

That is a gross exaggeration of Carricks ability to be honest. He is starting to get to Scholes level of inflation. I don't understand why it is fans just spin myths and overblow a players ability as they come to the end of their career.

Carrick had a wonderful instinct of looking to pass forward first, but his passing was above average, but nowhere near special. He recycled as much as anyone else, and every now and then would hit a lovely long range pass setting someone in on goal or down a flank.

Personally, I've seen Blind be more productive and talented with his passing during his brief stint at DM, at CB and LB. It's why I just don't get why I'm constantly alone calling for Blind to figure more, he's just a better player then Carrick at the time the pair have been teammates, but then if people have that sort of mythical opinion on Carrick there really is no debate.

Ah seriously, come off it. Carrick has over 700 career games in midfield, has been lauded all over europe by ex managers and players, players that played for him, watching him live at old trafford he has been a class act. How has blind been more productive during his brief spell there and how many games has he actually played there. If he was that good there he would have made a career out of that position.

Also, "scholes level of inflation"?? You didnt rate him? He was easily one of the best midfielders in the world at his peak

Jayop · 01-08-2017 11:58AM

My problem with Carrick is and always has been that when things were going OK there he was pinging the ball around having to a great old time. But when we were up against it he'd be hiding on the pitch and no where to be seen. He didn't have that ability to take a game and turn it around after it had started to get away from us.

sky88 · 01-08-2017 12:00PM

Ive always said about carrick that he has gone from grossly underappreciated by fans to being grossly overrated by them.

He was a great player no doubt and a very good passer but he was never near the best for me. honestly i wouldn't want him in the team this season as i felt he was poor for the majority of last season and with age is never going to help that.

bangkok · 01-08-2017 12:02PM

Jayop wrote: »

My problem with Carrick is and always has been that when things were going OK there he was pinging the ball around having to a great old time. But when we were up against it he'd be hiding on the pitch and no where to be seen. He didn't have that ability to take a game and turn it around after it had started to get away from us.

Luckily over his career that didnt happen too often as he was the man in the middle that allowed us to dominate most games

pjohnson · 01-08-2017 12:03PM

Why are so many referring as if Carrick has retired? Hes not left. Hes still here. I think he'll still get plenty of games alternating with Matic. Maybe Mata/Mhiki on occasion we dont use a DM but rather a #10.

bangkok · 01-08-2017 12:05PM

pjohnson wrote: »

Why are so many referring as if Carrick has retired? Hes not left. Hes still here. I think he'll still get plenty of games alternating with Matic. Maybe Mata/Mhiki on occasion we dont use a DM but rather a #10.

And he has just been made club captain. They dont just give that to anybody. He is a class act

Jayop · 01-08-2017 12:14PM

bangkok wrote: »

Luckily over his career that didnt happen too often as he was the man in the middle that allowed us to dominate most games

But I think it those games it did he was quivering behind people hiding from the ball.

TheDoc · 01-08-2017 12:15PM

bangkok wrote: »

Ah seriously, come off it. Carrick has over 700 career games in midfield, has been lauded all over europe by ex managers and players, players that played for him, watching him live at old trafford he has been a class act. How has blind been more productive during his brief spell there and how many games has he actually played there. If he was that good there he would have made a career out of that position.

Also, "scholes level of inflation"?? You didnt rate him? He was easily one of the best midfielders in the world at his peak

Scholes level of inflation is a real thing.

People seem to be under the impression that the level he was at in his last few seasons, he was at for his entire career. Scholes was unbelievable when he moved back into that deep lying role, but that range of passing wasn't there in his early or middle part of his career.

And those sensational last few seasons seemed to carry over his entire career.

It is a well documented thing that happened. Of course I rated him, but I like many were able to segregate what his game was like for the majority of his career to when he moved deeper and deeper, and arguably got better and better.

I also said Blinds range of passing I've found more productive if not equal. I just don't subscribe to this notion Carrick is some roles Royce in midfield. He has has consistently had issues in big games at times, frequently steam rolled by more dynamic midfields, responsible for champions league exits, been totally overwhelmed in pressure situations.

I don't dislike Carrick and I totally rate what he did, I just find nothing more frustrating than what I see as a wild over the top association with his ability and what he did.

jayo26 · 01-08-2017 12:16PM

Whoever started off this debate about passing should be shot haha

TheDoc · 01-08-2017 12:17PM

bangkok wrote: »

Luckily over his career that didnt happen too often as he was the man in the middle that allowed us to dominate most games

Carrick in instances where he was thought to be the main man, became grossly out of his depth an exposed. Carrick was, possibly still is, a brilliant support act. He was never the main man, and simply didn't and doesn't have the engine or character to be the main man.

So again, gross over exageration and myths attached to him.

Like sure, playing league two teams in FA Cups or West Brom at home he looks the business spraying passes under no pressure or playing forward balls. But to say he allowed us dominate most games is just incorrect.

bangkok · 01-08-2017 12:17PM

Jayop wrote: »

But I think it those games it did he was quivering behind people hiding from the ball.

"Quivering behind people hiding from the ball" all while the greatest manager of all time sat there and didnt sub him off. What a nonsense post.

TheDoc · 01-08-2017 12:18PM

jayo26 wrote: »

Whoever started off this debate about passing should be shot haha

In fairness someone said Matic had a better range of passing than Carrick which is mental, and I actually tried to avoid posting as I've learned to maybe drift clear of Carrick, but sometimes it irritates me too much.

01-08-2017 12:19PM

jayo26 wrote: »

Whoever started off this debate about passing should be shot haha

bangkok · 01-08-2017 12:20PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Carrick in instances where he was thought to be the main man, became grossly out of his depth an exposed. Carrick was, possibly still is, a brilliant support act. He was never the main man, and simply didn't and doesn't have the engine or character to be the main man.

So again, gross over exageration and myths attached to him.

Like sure, playing league two teams in FA Cups or West Brom at home he looks the business spraying passes under no pressure or playing forward balls. But to say he allowed us dominate most games is just incorrect.

What about champions league games where we got to 3 finals in 4 years and he was at the heart of that midfield?

TheDoc · 01-08-2017 12:21PM

bangkok wrote: »

"Quivering behind people hiding from the ball" all while the greatest manager of all time sat there and didnt sub him off. What a nonsense post.

Talk about short memory.

It wasn't that long ago Carrick was on the bench playing second fiddle to Cleverly and Anderson, which looked like were going to be the new midfield pairing, and only for injury Carrick came back into the frey.

It's all nice with SAF saying lovely things at his testimonial and everyone saying nice things, but don't forget that man was ruthless, and he had dropped Carrick on more then one occasion where it looked like his imminent future as a main stay was potentially under threat.

That he came back each time is credit to himself, but lets not pretend he didn't have rocky patches. I remember he fell on his arse letting a goal in the CL, after he came on as a sub, played absolutely horrible and got us knocked out (forget the match and year but remember the incident vividly), brought on to steady the ship (similar to West Ham away under Van Gaal actually) and Carrick didn't feature for a few weeks after he was so dreadful.

HONKEY TONK · 01-08-2017 12:21PM

I would have expected that as Captain your leadership would be most useful split 50/50 in the dressing room and on the pitch.

So why was Carrick made Captain if we bought Matic to replace him?

Or am I confused as to why we bought Matic?

jayo26 · 01-08-2017 12:21PM

TheDoc wrote: »

In fairness someone said Matic had a better range of passing than Carrick which is mental, and I actually tried to avoid posting as I've learned to maybe drift clear of Carrick, but sometimes it irritates me too much.

That would be me thank you

bangkok · 01-08-2017 12:23PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Scholes level of inflation is a real thing.

People seem to be under the impression that the level he was at in his last few seasons, he was at for his entire career. Scholes was unbelievable when he moved back into that deep lying role, but that range of passing wasn't there in his early or middle part of his career.

And those sensational last few seasons seemed to carry over his entire career.

It is a well documented thing that happened. Of course I rated him, but I like many were able to segregate what his game was like for the majority of his career to when he moved deeper and deeper, and arguably got better and better.

I also said Blinds range of passing I've found more productive if not equal. I just don't subscribe to this notion Carrick is some roles Royce in midfield. He has has consistently had issues in big games at times, frequently steam rolled by more dynamic midfields, responsible for champions league exits, been totally overwhelmed in pressure situations.

I don't dislike Carrick and I totally rate what he did, I just find nothing more frustrating than what I see as a wild over the top association with his ability and what he did.

He was sensational when he was the attacking midfielder along with roy keane.

In 10 seasons in a row he scored 10 or more goals in 8 of them seasons.

He was a genius.

pjohnson · 01-08-2017 12:24PM

jayo26 wrote: »

Whoever started off this debate about passing should be shot haha

Pew Pew

Can't we all be friends again?

bangkok · 01-08-2017 12:25PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Talk about short memory.

It wasn't that long ago Carrick was on the bench playing second fiddle to Cleverly and Anderson, which looked like were going to be the new midfield pairing, and only for injury Carrick came back into the frey.

It's all nice with SAF saying lovely things at his testimonial and everyone saying nice things, but don't forget that man was ruthless, and he had dropped Carrick on more then one occasion where it looked like his imminent future as a main stay was potentially under threat.

That he came back each time is credit to himself, but lets not pretend he didn't have rocky patches. I remember he fell on his arse letting a goal in the CL, after he came on as a sub, played absolutely horrible and got us knocked out (forget the match and year but remember the incident vividly), brought on to steady the ship (similar to West Ham away under Van Gaal actually) and Carrick didn't feature for a few weeks after he was so dreadful.

Every single player in the world has rocky patches. Its how you bounce back from those. Fell on his arse in a champions league game?? Lol

jayo26 · 01-08-2017 12:30PM

I'd just love people to be able have an opinion on here without been called mental or insane and so on

kind of ruins the buzz of debating an opinion.

Or else someone else quips in and says I don't know how someone can say such and such about a player blah blah blah eh if your talking about my opinion bloody quote me.

Rant over love ye all.

Mitch Connor · 01-08-2017 12:38PM

I don't udnerstand why Carrick's ability to dominate a game or be the man to take it over, is even being discussed.

The debate was squarely on whether he was or is a great passer. That was the point argued. Not his ability to tackle, or run, or shoot, or physically dominate. He fell on his arse? So what - that doesn't effect his passing ability. He was out ran or out fought? So what - that doesn't effect his passing ability.

Whether you think he was a strong enough character doesn't matter, the discussion was his passing ability. Maybe Matic will be stronger on the ball, or tackle better. I hope he does. But I don't think he will pass the ball better than Carrick.

Trigger · 01-08-2017 12:42PM

bangkok wrote: »

And he has just been made club captain. They dont just give that to anybody. He is a class act

Fellaini was Captain last season

#justsaying

pjohnson · 01-08-2017 12:43PM

astradave wrote: »

Fellaini was Captain last season

#justsaying

Fellaini has a 100% win rate as Captain.

#justsaying

The_Kew_Tour · 01-08-2017 12:43PM

Is Carrick a better passer then Matic? Yes

Is Carrick a super passer within the game or just below the greats of Pirlo or Xavi? No

Is Carrick a Super passer compared to Matic? No, he better but not miles better.

That's my 2c in nutshell

Mitch Connor · 01-08-2017 12:43PM

astradave wrote: »

Fellaini was Captain last season

#justsaying

Not club captain, he wasn't.

DM_7 · 01-08-2017 12:52PM

Since age caught up with him, have United missed what Carrick was?

I think so.

Can Matic make up for that and do what Jose needs?

I think so.

Pretty happy today. Need a wide player next.

Edit: I say happy after saying a large part of the window was poor just a few days ago. Matic changes it a lot.

beno619 · 01-08-2017 12:52PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Personally, I've seen Blind be more productive and talented with his passing during his brief stint at DM, at CB and LB. It's why I just don't get why I'm constantly alone calling for Blind to figure more, he's just a better player then Carrick at the time the pair have been teammates, but then if people have that sort of mythical opinion on Carrick there really is no debate.

Blind was comparable to Cleverley when played in midfield under LVG embarrassingly passive considering his ability. More so than Carrick ever has been.

The_Kew_Tour · 01-08-2017 12:57PM

Matic birthday today. Hope he got a cake

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

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