Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

Jayop · 28-07-2017 09:17AM

beno619 wrote: »

Your a decent poster so you shouldn't need to resort to condescending ****e and inventing arguments.

I'm glad you thought his performances last year were up to scratch.

You're willing to ignore any other type of argument so that's what it leads to. You've been told 7 big games that he played well in and you ignored them all.

Sebastian Dangerfield · 28-07-2017 09:18AM

bangkok wrote: »

veratti and iniesta are poor offensively..

Really???

bangkok · 28-07-2017 09:26AM

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

Really???

Well they dont score enough goals.

Iniesta scored ZERO league goal last seaeon and in the last 3 seasons has scored only 1 league goal. That is extremly poor considering who he plays for and the amount of goals the team score every year.

Veratti has scored 5 league goals at PSG in 5 seasons.

Pogba has already scored 33 league goals for both juve and utd

Jayop · 28-07-2017 09:33AM

Iniesta isn't nearly as good a player as he used to be and pogba is now the better midfielder.

posturingpat · 28-07-2017 09:38AM

Whatever about week in week out but when on his game Iniesta is still creatively the best player in the world bar the little genius. He should go down as one of the top 4 or 5 players of our generation.

jayo26 · 28-07-2017 09:45AM

posturingpat wrote: »

Whatever about week in week out but when on his game Iniesta is still creatively the best player in the world bar the little genius. He should go down as one of the top 4 or 5 players of our generation.

He will go down as one of the best ever but he is nowhere near that level of on his game as of late but still one of the best.

clubberlang12 · 28-07-2017 10:13AM

posturingpat wrote: »

Whatever about week in week out but when on his game Iniesta is still creatively the best player in the world bar the little genius. He should go down as one of the top 4 or 5 players of our generation.

First of all, i am a massive fan of Iniesta over his playing career, but is this not what the Pogba debate is loosely about? His consistancy last season, be it big games or regular matches? Yet it's okay to say that when Iniesta is on his best form, he is creatively the best in the world? For me , when Pogba is on form, and he has been showing it towards the end of the season and in games for France and United over the summer(albeit friendlies), he has looked immense and very few players can do what he does. Why the double standards? I'd far rather Pogba in our team than any of our rivals!!

Sebastian Dangerfield · 28-07-2017 10:18AM

clubberlang12 wrote: »

First of all, i am a massive fan of Iniesta over his playing career, but is this not what the Pogba debate is loosely about? His consistancy last season, be it big games or regular matches? Yet it's okay to say that when Iniesta is on his best form, he is creatively the best in the world? For me , when Pogba is on form, and he has been showing it towards the end of the season and in games for France and United over the summer(albeit friendlies), he has looked immense and very few players can do what he does. Why the double standards? I'd far rather Pogba in our team than any of our rivals!!

Personally i would put it down to Iniesta having won everything in the game, consistently performing at a world class level for the majority of his career and having a telling impact on games when it mattered most. Yes he's easing down now, so is never going to be at that standard again, but people remember what he's done.

Pogba on the other hand has shown flashes here and there, but flattered to deceive in the Euros and in a lot of Uniteds big games last season.

Im on his side btw, I think he will turn into what we all hope he will, but thats why I think people have doubts.

TheDoc · 28-07-2017 10:40AM

Also in terms of Pogba in the big games, that's totally unfair critique and is basically people succumbing I feel to expecting more then whats realistic, based on his price tag and hype.

Looking at the way Jose set the team up in those games last season, it's totally disingenuous to critique Pogba's performances in those games. That is expecting him to carry the team and win a game on his own, which is a mantle reserved for Messi and Ronaldo, who don't even always do it either.

I don't know how anyone could expect big performances from Pogba when we are playing six at the back in those games. I think he tried his best in those games, breaking from deep or trying to fire passes into Pogba, but then no one was in support. So no surprise he felt he needed to do it by himself, when hes picking the ball up outside our box with one person ahead of him. Coupled with him being run into the ground.

We can expect more from Pogba if the manager believes more in the team in the big games, otherwise I'm sorry to say we should be judging Pogba fairly in those games. I don't remember any massive critique on Hererra? I remember him getting compliments on his defensive work, his man mark job on Hazard (Bit overblown by the way, a man mark job is a relatively simple task) but no real critique on his ability to thread the attack of contribute anything to the attack. Where as in some big games under Van Gaal he was setting the tempo in midfield and being a little warhorse in there.

So I'd feel strongly in defending Pogba's performances in the big games. I wouldn't label it all the same, as I see some posts from varying people on that topic in the last few pages, and people I know understand the game or can see whats happening in a specific scenario, but doesn't make sense to critique Pogba in those performances. There was literally some games where the tactic was to just get Rashford in via the channels and exploiting his pace, basically bypassing our midfield.

posturingpat · 28-07-2017 10:43AM

clubberlang12 wrote: »

First of all, i am a massive fan of Iniesta over his playing career, but is this not what the Pogba debate is loosely about? His consistancy last season, be it big games or regular matches? Yet it's okay to say that when Iniesta is on his best form, he is creatively the best in the world? For me , when Pogba is on form, and he has been showing it towards the end of the season and in games for France and United over the summer(albeit friendlies), he has looked immense and very few players can do what he does. Why the double standards? I'd far rather Pogba in our team than any of our rivals!!

I'd agree Pogba's immense and I expect him to be the best player in the premiership this year.

TheDoc · 28-07-2017 10:48AM

bangkok wrote: »

Just like to say, it was my opinion that Pogba was the best all around midfielder in the world as he can do things no one else can.

Yes kante is better defensively that him and there is probably a better attacking midfielder than him but overall, at what he does he is the best imo.

Someone said veratti and iniesta are better than him, well if pogba being poor defensively is a negative on pogba then both veratti and iniesta are poor offensively.

I personally wouldnt swap pogba for any other midfielder in world football right now.

I actually do get what you are saying and agree.

Last season there was a consistent narrative in commentary, punditry,media and fan discussion about his best position or what is he good at?

Yes he is weak at the defensive side, by no means terrible, but not great. But everything else:

Engine
Stamina
Vision
Power
Pace
Dribbling
Ability to beat players
Shooting
Long range passing
Interplay

He is exceptionally strong. He doesn't have one or two standout qualities so it begs people to question what he is good at, he is exceptional at multiple things.

While labelling him the best in the world is a stretch, it's not as preposterous as people, or bangkok, is making out.

Actually totally get what you are saying. Iniesta to be honest has been playing on reputation for a while now, he's looked a shadow of himself for about two seasons from what I've seen. And he has his flaws as much as anyone else.

I'm a MASSIVE fan of Kroos, I consider him the midfield standard, the best in the world. His passing is just unrivalled and his vision is unbelievable. He makes playing midfield at that level easy, to the point where people think Modric is the real cog in that midfield. And yet there is stuff he doesn't have. He has no pace, he can't beat opponents and his defensive side is poor at times. But thats what I'm saying, its all compartmentalised, there is no all rounders anymore.

Iniesta's defensive brutality (he's proper rubbish) was never an issue cause of Busquets. Kroos never had to care because he had Schweinsteiger and now Cassimero. So like I've said before I get why people do rate and think a new DM is going to be the lynchpin for our team, and ultimately Pogba.

I'd also agree with you I wouldn't swop him with any other midfielder in world football, and I include Kroos in that. I think Pogba has the ability, and I've seen enough of his range of passing to think he could get close to Kroos, but he also has abilities and strengths Kroos does not.

Sebastian Dangerfield · 28-07-2017 10:48AM

TheDoc wrote: »

Also in terms of Pogba in the big games, that's totally unfair critique and is basically people succumbing I feel to expecting more then whats realistic, based on his price tag and hype.

Looking at the way Jose set the team up in those games last season, it's totally disingenuous to critique Pogba's performances in those games. That is expecting him to carry the team and win a game on his own, which is a mantle reserved for Messi and Ronaldo, who don't even always do it either.

I don't know how anyone could expect big performances from Pogba when we are playing six at the back in those games. I think he tried his best in those games, breaking from deep or trying to fire passes into Pogba, but then no one was in support. So no surprise he felt he needed to do it by himself, when hes picking the ball up outside our box with one person ahead of him. Coupled with him being run into the ground.

We can expect more from Pogba if the manager believes more in the team in the big games, otherwise I'm sorry to say we should be judging Pogba fairly in those games. I don't remember any massive critique on Hererra? I remember him getting compliments on his defensive work, his man mark job on Hazard (Bit overblown by the way, a man mark job is a relatively simple task) but no real critique on his ability to thread the attack of contribute anything to the attack. Where as in some big games under Van Gaal he was setting the tempo in midfield and being a little warhorse in there.

So I'd feel strongly in defending Pogba's performances in the big games. I wouldn't label it all the same, as I see some posts from varying people on that topic in the last few pages, and people I know understand the game or can see whats happening in a specific scenario, but doesn't make sense to critique Pogba in those performances. There was literally some games where the tactic was to just get Rashford in via the channels and exploiting his pace, basically bypassing our midfield.

I think you're going too far the other way in defending him. Liverpool at home was a game where united didnt play so defensively, and he was awful. He wasnt just poor offensively, he was consistently targeted from set pieces defensively and was lost.

Plus in games where the plan is to keep it tight and don't give too much away, the emphasis is on your big name players to shine through and produce when the time arrives. Very often he didnt do that.

Thats what you pay 90m for, thats why marketing companies give him his own emoji. The two shouldnt be completely seperated - if he wants the profile he seemingly craves, the ultimate way to earn it is on the pitch.

The polar opposite views here are as wrong as each other. The truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle.

The_Kew_Tour · 28-07-2017 10:48AM

When people say Pogba is not the complete Midfielder it does not mean people don't rate him very high.

He was average enough last season, but I'm confident enough we will see a much better player this one.

But to say he played well in 90% or so games last year is crazy opinion.

bucketybuck · 28-07-2017 10:54AM

Pogba would get far more credit if he was smarter in possession. Sure there are a lot of silky through balls, but there are also a lot of examples of taking too long on the ball and getting caught out. He needs to stop trying to do it all, learn when the time is right for a hollywood pass and when to just recycle the ball.

That will come with age I hope, I think he has the natural intelligence to develop in that regard, but those times getting caught on the ball are a big reason why people can get frustrated with him.

DARK-KNIGHT · 28-07-2017 10:59AM

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

Personally i would put it down to Iniesta having won everything in the game, consistently performing at a world class level for the majority of his career and having a telling impact on games when it mattered most. Yes he's easing down now, so is never going to be at that standard again, but people remember what he's done.

Pogba on the other hand has shown flashes here and there, but flattered to deceive in the Euros and in a lot of Uniteds big games last season.

Im on his side btw, I think he will turn into what we all hope he will, but thats why I think people have doubts.

Iniesta has been part of the best team of players ever assembled imo. he had the frteedom to roam as all players around him were absolutely class and in a much poorer league quality wise. if pogba was in that barca team he would be awesome

Sebastian Dangerfield · 28-07-2017 11:01AM

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Iniesta has been part of the best team of players ever assembled imo. he had the frteedom to roam as all players around him were absolutely class and in a much poorer league quality wise. if pogba was in that barca team he would be awesome

Not so sure about that at all

beno619 · 28-07-2017 11:06AM

Jayop wrote: »

You're willing to ignore any other type of argument so that's what it leads to. You've been told 7 big games that he played well in and you ignored them all.

And ive listed a number of games were he was muck which your also willing to ignore so im not sure what your point is.

We have differing opinions which were well aware of so no there's no point in supporting ****eposts.

posturingpat · 28-07-2017 11:07AM

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Iniesta has been part of the best team of players ever assembled imo. he had the frteedom to roam as all players around him were absolutely class and in a much poorer league quality wise. if pogba was in that barca team he would be awesome

This nonsense about premier league being a superior league is a myth that needs to be debunked.

bangkok · 28-07-2017 11:09AM

posturingpat wrote: »

This nonsense about premier league being a superior league is a myth that needs to be debunked.

its not superior, but it is the most competitive. there are no easy 3 points won unlike spain where teams role over when they go 2 down

beno619 · 28-07-2017 11:10AM

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

The polar opposite views here are as wrong as each other. The truth, as usual, is somewhere in the middle.

This is the fact of the matter.

The critics here are probably harsh and the defenders are most certainly assessing his performances with red tinted glasses.

How anyone can suggest he performed to the level expected of a world record player is having a laugh.

bangkok · 28-07-2017 11:12AM

neymar storms out of training...

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/transfer-window/watch-neymar-storms-out-of-barcelona-training-after-bustup-to-spark-fresh-transfer-speculation-35976783.html

Trigger · 28-07-2017 11:19AM

https://instagram.com/p/BXDvAlvDaOV/

Pogba wrote a comment "Agent P on duty"

:pac:

Lord TSC · 28-07-2017 11:19AM

bangkok wrote: »

neymar storms out of training...

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/transfer-window/watch-neymar-storms-out-of-barcelona-training-after-bustup-to-spark-fresh-transfer-speculation-35976783.html

Which has nothing to do with us...

Giggsy11 · 28-07-2017 11:35AM

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

Awful against Bournemouth but I agree his contribution overall hasnt been appreciated properly

He was very good against Bournemouth, his overall performance was rated badly as he missed 2 good chances at the end of the game.

Check out his game vs them. Created 2 very good chances for Mata and Zlatan, won penalty, won free kick near the box, some good long passing, superb shot from distance (which keeper made a very good save) and barely gave away ball (only once when he dwelled on the ball)

Sebastian Dangerfield · 28-07-2017 11:39AM

Giggsy11 wrote: »

He was very good against Bournemouth, his overall performance was rated badly as he missed 2 good chances at the end of the game.

Check out his game vs them. Created 2 very good chances for Mata and Zlatan, won penalty, won free kick near the box, some good long passing, superb shot from distance (which keeper made a very good save) and barely gave away ball (only once when he dwelled on the ball)

Cant say I agree. Did well early on in the game when Bournemouth were all over the place. As the game wore on and we desperately needed a goal he fell apart if I recall, esp towards the end. Forcing long through balls time and time again when they were never on, ignoring the simple pass again and again.

I could be wrong, but thats my recollection. We threw it away and he was a key culprit

Giggsy11 · 28-07-2017 11:50AM

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

Cant say I agree. Did well early on in the game when Bournemouth were all over the place. As the game wore on and we desperately needed a goal he fell apart if I recall, esp towards the end. Forcing long through balls time and time again when they were never on, ignoring the simple pass again and again.

I could be wrong, but thats my recollection. We threw it away and he was a key culprit

He didn't force long balls many times, I agree as a team they lost composure at the end. You can see so many miskicks and failing to control. Except that last few mins he had good game.

Like I said, any other day he would have won the game with his chance creation and winning penalty.

xtal191 · 28-07-2017 12:08PM

astradave wrote: »

https://instagram.com/p/BXDvAlvDaOV/

Pogba wrote a comment "Agent P on duty"

:pac:

Goodbye Pogba, enjoy Barca :P

pogba.jpg?w=620&h=360&crop=1

Jayop · 28-07-2017 12:12PM

beno619 wrote: »

And ive listed a number of games were he was muck which your also willing to ignore so im not sure what your point is.

We have differing opinions which were well aware of so no there's no point in supporting ****eposts.

I didnt ignore them. I didn't respond to them but leave out the parts that didn't suit me like you did either. Just to be clear, there was a number of big games that he was poor in last year there was also a number that he excelled in too.

Whatsisname · 28-07-2017 12:43PM

I distanced myself from transfer rumours and the likes a year or two back but this Perisic saga is some load of nonsense at this stage.

adox · 28-07-2017 12:56PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

When people say Pogba is not the complete Midfielder it does not mean people don't rate him very high.

He was average enough last season, but I'm confident enough we will see a much better player this one.

But to say he played well in 90% or so games last year is crazy opinion.

Nail on the head there Kew.

its frustrating to read people saying that those who are criticising him expect him to score loads of goals etc which hasnt really been said at all.

This all started out last night when I responded to Bangkok calling him the best midfielder in the world and a complete midfielder.

Obviously I strongly disagreed and pointed out what I perceive as glaring weaknesses in his game at the moment to support my point.

It all went a bit mad then with me being accused of having a vendetta against him, not watching properly, letting the price tag blind my opinion etc etc.

Now there were a few posters also that disagreed with my(and others)view on it and pointed out why they thought so which was great to rad, even if I disagree.

You can criticise a player, or respond to OTT praise for a player by pointing out why you think the point is wrong and still value the player and think he is a very good player.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

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