Attic going to be converted. Need advice

Subzero3 · 26-07-2017 03:02PM #1

Hi, we are getting out Attic converted. A let's say few handy men they did a job on a bathroom for the neighbour so asked for a quote about the Attic. They do extentions ect but there not done an Attic.

Quoted 12k, 4 window,Tank moved, heater, stairs leading to Attic from other bedroom/landing, insulation. Other companies didn't have time to Do it so went ahead on Monday with these fellas with 5k deposit To start in 2weeks once materials arrive.

Now I'm worried I didn't ask the right questions originally from reading stuff on the Internet about cowboy builders, Regarding building regulations ect. What should I look for now while I observe the work? These lads are from eastern Europe so standards might be different.

It's stressing us out big time. Any advice would be appreciated. If it means biting the bullet and trying to get our money back we need to act fast.

Penn · 26-07-2017 03:21PM

You need an engineer. Hire one who does attic conversions and can advise on structural items, fire safety items, insulation requirements and any other items they may deem necessary.

lawred2 · 26-07-2017 03:24PM

Subzero3 wrote: »

Hi, we are getting out Attic converted. A let's say few handy men they did a job on a bathroom for the neighbour so asked for a quote about the Attic. They do extentions ect but there not done an Attic.

Quoted 12k, 4 window,Tank moved, heater, stairs leading to Attic from other bedroom/landing, insulation. Other companies didn't have time to Do it so went ahead on Monday with these fellas with 5k deposit To start in 2weeks once materials arrive.

Now I'm worried I didn't ask the right questions originally from reading stuff on the Internet about cowboy builders, Regarding building regulations ect. What should I look for now while I observe the work? These lads are from eastern Europe so standards might be different.

It's stressing us out big time. Any advice would be appreciated. If it means biting the bullet and trying to get our money back we need to act fast.

We had ours done recently to a very high standard and it cost near 30k...

Sounds expensive but when you see the amount of work needed and the amount of sub contractors involved you start to understand.

There were however some services in our attic that needed moving (above and beyond water tanks) and we did put in a bathroom so that added to the cost.

All said and done 12k would worry me a little.

Subzero3 · 26-07-2017 03:39PM

lawred2 wrote: »

We had ours done recently to a very high standard and it cost near 30k...

Sounds expensive but when you see the amount of work needed and the amount of sub contractors involved you start to understand.

There were however some services in our attic that needed moving (above and beyond water tanks) and we did put in a bathroom so that added to the cost.

All said and done 12k would worry me a little.

Thanks. It's standard semi detached house, 10 years old. We didn't want an ensuite. He said he will come up from box room, turn stairs right and up along wall. Wall pic attached. Forgive finger drawing.

lawred2 · 26-07-2017 03:42PM

Subzero3 wrote: »

Thanks. It's standard semi detached house, 10 years old. We didn't want an ensuite. He said he will come up from box room, turn stairs right and up along wall. Wall pic attached. Forgive finger drawing.

I hope any contractor's drawings would be better than those

Are you going to lose much of box room?

Gumbo · 26-07-2017 03:43PM

Structural Requirements.
New floor, steel or timber structure?
Fire Separation.
Fire Doors.
Escape windows.
Smoke Detection linked back to main dwelling.
Self closer retrofit to all other doors.
Ventilations provisions.
Certification on completion?

_Brian · 26-07-2017 03:45PM

Is it common to give a deposit to a builder like that ??

Have had plenty of work done over the years, never ever gave a builder money up front and I always keep the financial advantage on my side, it gives you more control and ensures a better outcome.

What if this fella just never comes back ??

lawred2 · 26-07-2017 03:48PM

I never gave a deposit either - we agreed a payment plan which involved staged payments at the end of each week's work.

The builder showed his commitment to the job by taking on the first week's costs himself.

No discussion of a deposit whatsoever.

Subzero3 · 26-07-2017 03:49PM

lawred2 wrote: »

I hope any contractor's drawings would be better than those

Are you going to lose much of box room?

He said 1 foot originally. He is coming tomorrow to do drawings and stuff in Attic. So I guess thats my time to ask stuff and be sure. My friend had an Attic done by a company for 11k, 2 windows. He was happy with job. They needed hire separate plumber to connect heater. But the company is booked until Xmas.

We needed it started ASAP due to a new baby hence the rush. All the family will be away for 2 weeks in August so if it was done then it wouldn't be an inconvenience either. That's why we went ahead with these people.

Subzero3 · 26-07-2017 03:54PM

_Brian wrote: »

Is it common to give a deposit to a builder like that ??

Have had plenty of work done over the years, never ever gave a builder money up front and I always keep the financial advantage on my side, it gives you more control and ensures a better outcome.

What if this fella just never comes back ??

The other company wanted money up front to. He wanted 6k then when work starts some and then 1.5k for 3 weeks.

Subzero3 · 26-07-2017 04:13PM

For the record the other company drew up a quote and gave me this. With out extras and vat. Extras include kinspan in storage area, extra window.

lawred2 · 26-07-2017 04:17PM

Subzero3 wrote: »

For the record the other company drew up a quote and gave me this. With out extras and vat. Extras include kinspan in storage area, extra window.

I'm glad that they say that all jobs will be complete. That's important to know

Subzero3 · 26-07-2017 04:19PM

lawred2 wrote: »

I'm glad that they say that all jobs will be complete. That's important to know

That's the company I didn't go for BTW. Other one wrote by hand what herself wanted and came back with the price.

seamus · 26-07-2017 04:34PM

Ultimately it depends on whether you're talking about an attic conversion or a storage upgrade.

That is, whether the attic is going to be converted into an actual, legally livable room. Or whether you're just going to have a fancy storage room/office.

The latter is usually what people get when they get an "attic conversion", and the work required to do it is pretty much the same for 90% of houses. €12k seems about typical.

A proper attic conversion so that you can say you have an extra bedroom is much more expensive, not least because it requires more expertise, but also more materials.

Subzero3 · 26-07-2017 04:48PM

seamus wrote: »

Ultimately it depends on whether you're talking about an attic conversion or a storage upgrade.

That is, whether the attic is going to be converted into an actual, legally livable room. Or whether you're just going to have a fancy storage room/office.

The latter is usually what people get when they get an "attic conversion", and the work required to do it is pretty much the same for 90% of houses. €12k seems about typical.

A proper attic conversion so that you can say you have an extra bedroom is much more expensive, not least because it requires more expertise, but also more materials.

Thanks seamus. Ya I'm happy for it to be called fancy storage room if the roof don't blow off down the line. If it was not to be called bed room but they will abviously cut through walls ceiling etc what concerns should I have. If I need sell down the line.

Gumbo · 26-07-2017 05:38PM

Subzero3 wrote: »

Thanks seamus. Ya I'm happy for it to be called fancy storage room if the roof don't blow off down the line. If it was not to be called bed room but they will abviously cut through walls ceiling etc what concerns should I have. If I need sell down the line.

Lack of building regulation compliance (fancy storage or bedroom is irrelevant).
Lack of structural compliance.
Lack of certification.

Subzero3 · 26-07-2017 05:59PM

kceire wrote: »

Lack of building regulation compliance (fancy storage or bedroom is irrelevant).
Lack of structural compliance.
Lack of certification.

Thanks. I'll address those tomorrow. I no I should of before hand but it's to late for that.

Calahonda52 · 26-07-2017 06:53PM

http://www.environ.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad%2C1657%2Cen.pdf

doubledouble · 26-07-2017 08:14PM

im also thinking of converting my own attic ...
some good reading here..... cheers to all who replied

doubledouble · 26-07-2017 08:16PM

if possible id like to see pics.as in finished conversion

Gumbo · 26-07-2017 08:24PM

doubledouble wrote: »

if possible id like to see pics.as in finished conversion

Why?
It won't show how compliance is met.
It will be different to your own attic.
You may as well google attic conversion for similar pics.

Subzero3 · 26-07-2017 10:17PM

kceire wrote: »

Why?
It won't show how compliance is met.
It will be different to your own attic.
You may as well google attic conversion for similar pics.

Kceire if I got an engineer involved what stages would be need observe to sign a job as compliant?

Gumbo · 26-07-2017 11:29PM

Subzero3 wrote: »

Kceire if I got an engineer involved what stages would be need observe to sign a job as compliant?

Full survey of existing structure.
Design of new structure.
Erection of new structure before covering up.
Fitting of Fire doors, smoke detection, staircase, means of escape.

2-3 inspections should be enough depending on the complexity of the actual house.

Subzero3 · 26-07-2017 11:32PM

kceire wrote: »

Full survey of existing structure.
Design of new structure.
Erection of new structure before covering up.
Fitting of Fire doors, smoke detection, staircase, means of escape.

2-3 inspections should be enough depending on the complexity of the actual house.

OK I didn't plan on putting a door up there as it's coming from the box room

. Escape could only be the window by opening fully.

roy rodgers · 26-07-2017 11:59PM

If your going for a full attic conversion it's going to cost at least double that price or maybe 3 times the price.
So in another words if your using the extra space as bedroom or man cave it needs to be signed off by an architect and all the documents put into the houses deeds.
The regulations are through the roof (No pun intended) on attic conversions.
I've seen rooms that look like attic conversions but they would of being better off sticking a fold down ladder in and a few sheets of chipboard down for a tenth of the cost.
But from your post you say your putting your putting in 4 roof windows so your hoping to use the room as extra living space so please don't cut corners it needs to be done right.

Subzero3 · 27-07-2017 12:04AM

roy rodgers wrote: »

If your going for a full attic conversion it's going to cost at least double that price or maybe 3 times the price.
So in another words if your using the extra space as bedroom or man cave it needs to be signed off by an architect and all the documents put into the houses deeds.
The regulations are through the roof (No pun intended) on attic conversions.
I've seen rooms that look like attic conversions but they would of being better off sticking a fold down ladder in and a few sheets of chipboard down for a tenth of the cost.
But from your post you say your putting your putting in 4 roof windows so your hoping to use the room as extra living space so please don't cut corners it needs to be done right.

Thanks lads I've dug myself into a right hole on this one. Any tips on when the builder calls tomorrow
To measure stuff

A2LUE42 · 27-07-2017 12:09AM

Can you do a quick sketch of the upstairs layout and the direction of the existing stairs? It might be possible to keep the box room.
Are all the existing rafters going to be modified and are they pre trussed or put together on site. I presume the former. If so then you need new beams/joists, as the existing bottoms of the A frames won't be of a sufficient size.
Sound proofing the floor. It could be quite noisy if there isn't enough under the laminate flooring. You might consider carpeting instead of laminate?

roy rodgers · 27-07-2017 12:17AM

See what you actually want out of this, is it a room that is going to be apart of the house or and storage space and go from there. If your going for a room that's apart of the house be straight with the builder and tell him what you want. That cert from the architect will put the value of the house up the cost of the conversion. Without it in the long term your gonna lose money.

Tell the builder that your changing things and get him drawings he will more than likely need to requote and be as fair as possible with him

johnny_adidas · 27-07-2017 12:34AM

_Brian wrote: »

Is it common to give a deposit to a builder like that ??

Have had plenty of work done over the years, never ever gave a builder money up front and I always keep the financial advantage on my side, it gives you more control and ensures a better outcome.

What if this fella just never comes back ??

Very dangerous to hand over a big cash deposit up front, lot of scams in the UK run like this. If a builder's cash flow is that poor for a 12k job then that would set off alarm bells for me.

This guy could well be genuine and do a great job within budget, however if something goes wrong or there's a disagreement with the extent of works/final finishes, the builder can clear off leaving you with a half done job and not enough money to complete.
I would advise further payments are based on the work completed and at worst, holding at least a 10% final payment until its completed to satisfaction.

I just hope the OP has some sort of written contract and receipt for the deposit in case things go pear shaped.

Subzero3 · 27-07-2017 01:28AM

johnny_adidas wrote: »

Very dangerous to hand over a big cash deposit up front, lot of scams in the UK run like this. If a builder's cash flow is that poor for a 12k job then that would set off alarm bells for me.

This guy could well be genuine and do a great job within budget, however if something goes wrong or there's a disagreement with the extent of works/final finishes, the builder can clear off leaving you with a half done job and not enough money to complete.
I would advise further payments are based on the work completed and at worst, holding at least a 10% final payment until its completed to satisfaction.

I just hope the OP has some sort of written contract and receipt for the deposit in case things go pear shaped.

Hi he wrote down what he was doing on a a4 paper and signed his name on it that he took 5k deposit.

To be honest if its just a room to use as a place to sleep for short term i am happy to not have it classed as a bed room.

What I do want is the work to not affect my home insurance or affect me selling the house in the future. Of course with the work also not going pear shaped.

I have lost a lot of sleep, me and my partner are blaming each other and its a bad situation. If I could turn back the clock I would since reading the stuff on here.

I really want to turn this into a happy outcome. P.s I also recorded a video of him counting the cash but only a few seconds with him with money in hand.

johnny_adidas · 27-07-2017 06:45AM

Subzero3 wrote: »

Hi he wrote down what he was doing on a a4 paper and signed his name on it that he took 5k deposit.

To be honest if its just a room to use as a place to sleep for short term i am happy to not have it classed as a bed room.

What I do want is the work to not affect my home insurance or affect me selling the house in the future. Of course with the work also not going pear shaped.

I have lost a lot of sleep, me and my partner are blaming each other and its a bad situation. If I could turn back the clock I would since reading the stuff on here.

I really want to turn this into a happy outcome. P.s I also recorded a video of him counting the cash but only a few seconds with him with money in hand.

I just found this site [snip] with a quick search, it contains some responses from insurance companies which may be of benefit to you & spouse. I haven't read it all and probably best to look with a grain of salt as they are flogging conversions themselves.

Just remember, someone sleeping up there, even just irregularly makes it a habitable room.
I have seen several conversions myself over the years that are used daily but not compliant and always wonder if people consider either there's a fire and ignoring the fire regs leads to a death or everyone gets out but insurance refuses to pay out.

Attic going to be converted. Need advice

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