Dublin 15 is going to get a lot more congested.

Phil.x · 25-07-2017 3:57pm #1

Man when will all this building in D15 stop.
Roads, rail, bus, amenities are at breaking point and in some cases broken.

https://consult.fingal.ie/en/consultation/barnhill-local-area-plan-2017-2023-strategic-issues-paper

vegetables · 25-07-2017 7:28pm

no problem. leos on it.

December2012 · 25-07-2017 8:03pm

This is the area.

Btw is that legit called Pass if You can?

Pat Dunne · 25-07-2017 9:21pm

December2012 wrote: »

This is the area.

Btw is that legit called Pass if You can?

Yeah, its not your average Ballywhatever, or Kilmedodaa, but that's the actual name for the area.

Phil.x · 25-07-2017 9:29pm

But there's talk of a four lane two way road linking the n3 to the n4 from the clonee slip road.

vegetables · 25-07-2017 9:57pm

Phil.x wrote: »

But there's talk of a four lane two way road linking the n3 to the n4 from the clonee slip road.

Here?

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.4062818,-6.4316189,3a,75y,268.33h,75.29t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sBkIge2XZUbfk93VYsf02hA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DBkIge2XZUbfk93VYsf02hA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D174.79604%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

If so....thats mental.

rolion · 25-07-2017 11:02pm

vegetables wrote: »

Here?

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.4062818,-6.4316189,3a,75y,268.33h,75.29t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sBkIge2XZUbfk93VYsf02hA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DBkIge2XZUbfk93VYsf02hA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D174.79604%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

If so....thats mental.

That is the Littlepace to Ongar link road.

The N3 - N4 link supposedly going trough the St Anne's park and local "residents" found out the politicians plans and did a massive protest.As a result,there is no plan B for the link until they will/may come with another envelope type planning.

vegetables · 25-07-2017 11:30pm

rolion wrote: »

That is the Littlepace to Ongar link road.

The N3 - N4 link supposedly going trough the St Anne's park and local "residents" found out the politicians plans and did a massive protest.As a result,there is no plan B for the link until they will/may come with another envelope type planning.

St Catherines park ... Leixlip.

Right?

Hilly Bill · 26-07-2017 12:26am

Houses are being built there already all along that stretch so its not going to be much worse.

Zaph · 26-07-2017 12:34am

December2012 wrote: »

This is the area.

Btw is that legit called Pass if You can?

Yep, Hope Beer in Kilbarrack actually have a beer named after it and they explain how it got its name on their website here.

Atlantic Dawn · 26-07-2017 12:37am

The planning system is like someone deciding they need to clog their most important arteries, a prime example is allowing LIDL and ALDI to open opposite each other on East Wall Road, one of the most important North/South routes through the city. A child playing Sim City wouldn't do it.

Phil.x · 26-07-2017 7:25am

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Houses are being built there already all along that stretch so its not going to be much worse.

From fingals website, 4500 people.

If utilities, transport and amenities are at breaking point, which they are, well then every extra house built is making it worse.

Phil.x · 26-07-2017 7:46am

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Houses are being built there already all along that stretch so its not going to be much worse.

I'm at the hansfield station now, as far as I can see there's no housing being built south Of The train tracks.

munchkin_utd · 26-07-2017 7:48am

Phil.x wrote: »

I'm at the hansfield station now, as far as I can see there's no housing being built south Of The train tracks.

yep, hansfield SDZ is only north of the tracks
http://www.fingal.ie/media/2.4.3.A.14.2%20Proposed%20Framework%20Plan%20Fig%204.1.pdf

Larbre34 · 26-07-2017 9:18am

Overview of all zonings and road proposals http://www.fingal.ie/media/2.4.1.P%20Sheet13.pdf

Hilly Bill · 26-07-2017 10:40am

Phil.x wrote: »

I'm at the hansfield station now, as far as I can see there's no housing being built south Of The train tracks.

Are you taking about the lucan side of the tracks?

blanch152 · 26-07-2017 10:53am

Larbre34 wrote: »

Overview of all zonings and road proposals http://www.fingal.ie/media/2.4.1.P%20Sheet13.pdf

I see the reservation for Metro West is preserved in that map.

Larbre34 · 26-07-2017 11:35am

blanch152 wrote: »

I see the reservation for Metro West is preserved in that map.

Indeed.

The road link from N4-N3 used to follow much the same route as the metro and was intended to connect the junction at Woodies Lucan to the Blanchardstown Road at the back of Power City, I dont know when that changed as an objective but it certainly didnt get as much publicity as it should have.

That said, the Littlepace - Ongar link road was left with plenty of reservation space for widening in future.

Former Former · 26-07-2017 1:57pm

The Metro West, jaysus there's a blast from the past.

This site is adjacent to a train station and bus routes, there are already schools built, it's close to the country's biggest shopping centre and there are huge numbers of employers within easy reach, not to mention sports clubs, churches, whatever else you're looking for. I think you'd struggle to find a better spot for greenfield housing for 4,500 people.

blanch152 · 26-07-2017 3:23pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

Indeed.

The road link from N4-N3 used to follow much the same route as the metro and was intended to connect the junction at Woodies Lucan to the Blanchardstown Road at the back of Power City, I dont know when that changed as an objective but it certainly didnt get as much publicity as it should have.

That said, the Littlepace - Ongar link road was left with plenty of reservation space for widening in future.

Looking at the map, the road reservation doesn't seem to lop much off St. Catherine's Park. Either the alignment has changed or I am missing something.

Larbre34 · 26-07-2017 4:41pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Looking at the map, the road reservation doesn't seem to lop much off St. Catherine's Park. Either the alignment has changed or I am missing something.

Its a new one on me too, but it seems to follow the western boundary of the park pretty closely, it certainly wouldnt ruin it as an amenity, but that quiet area at the back of the water treatment plant over the river would be very much changed.

vegetables · 26-07-2017 6:28pm

looks like cycledub or the bike industry is in charge of the planning process in fingal.

judging by the maps. indicative bike routes everywhere.

Former Former · 26-07-2017 6:53pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Looking at the map, the road reservation doesn't seem to lop much off St. Catherine's Park. Either the alignment has changed or I am missing something.

I think the concern is that there's a fair chunk of St Catherine's which is in Kildare and therefore not on that map.

Phil.x · 26-07-2017 8:25pm

vegetables wrote: »

looks like cycledub or the bike industry is in charge of the planning process in fingal.

judging by the maps. indicative bike routes everywhere.

Yes but they don't meet up, so rather pointless, like everything fingal do.

blanch152 · 27-07-2017 11:07am

Larbre34 wrote: »

Its a new one on me too, but it seems to follow the western boundary of the park pretty closely, it certainly wouldnt ruin it as an amenity, but that quiet area at the back of the water treatment plant over the river would be very much changed.

Former Former wrote: »

I think the concern is that there's a fair chunk of St Catherine's which is in Kildare and therefore not on that map.

Still unclear to me. I have seen the notices looking for support to objections, but there are benefits to a N3/N4 link road which means we could lose some of St.Catherine's to facilitate it, but I would want to see the full details.

Larbre34 · 27-07-2017 11:58am

vegetables wrote: »

looks like cycledub or the bike industry is in charge of the planning process in fingal.

judging by the maps. indicative bike routes everywhere.

That saturation of bike routes has little to do with Fingal. Cycle priority is now primary policy for the whole Country, especially urban areas. Expect to see a good many roads in Dublin city centre turned over to bike and PSV only after the Luas link up work is finished

blanch152 · 27-07-2017 12:22pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

That saturation of bike routes has little to do with Fingal. Cycle priority is now primary policy for the whole Country, especially urban areas. Expect to see a good many roads in Dublin city centre turned over to bike and PSV only after the Luas link up work is finished

Yeah, noticed a cycle-only lane from Dame Street round to Westmoreland St. beside the new Luas yesterday.

beauf · 28-07-2017 5:47pm

Former Former wrote: »

...This site is adjacent to a train station and bus routes, there are already schools built, it's close to the country's biggest shopping centre and there are huge numbers of employers within easy reach, not to mention sports clubs, churches, whatever else you're looking for. I think you'd struggle to find a better spot for greenfield housing for 4,500 people.

Considering I cannot get a seat on the train even this week, probably the quietest week of the year, and there are still queues every other day on the roads. I look forward to Sept and the impact of yet more development on the creaking transport network.

beauf · 28-07-2017 6:01pm

vegetables wrote: »

looks like cycledub or the bike industry is in charge of the planning process in fingal. - judging by the maps. indicative bike routes everywhere.

In my experience the cycle lanes (my routes) are terrible. They might look good on a map, or plan, but they are almost impossible to use in real life. badly designed, no consistency, no logic. Often built badly.

If you wanted to make fake cycle lanes that are unusable, these would tick every box.

sop

1.
a thing of no great value given or done as a concession to appease someone whose main concerns or demands are not being met.

Former Former · 28-07-2017 10:57pm

beauf wrote: »

Considering I cannot get a seat on the train even this week, probably the quietest week of the year, and there are still queues every other day on the roads. I look forward to Sept and the impact of yet more development on the creaking transport network.

So what's the solution? Don't build any houses?

beauf · 29-07-2017 12:41am

Former Former wrote: »

So what's the solution? Don't build any houses?

Fix the trains and transport link..

I'm not sure why the Dart had to be every 10secs yet off peak in d.15 its one per hour and at peak the trains are made shorter.

The buses have a bottle neck in castleknock yet they have approved a shopping centre bang in the middle of the the bottle neck.

There is no cycle lane into the phoenix park from d. 15.

Former Former · 29-07-2017 7:31am

beauf wrote: »

Fix the trains and transport link..

I'm not sure why the Dart had to be every 10secs yet off peak in d.15 its one per hour and at peak the trains are made shorter.

The buses have a bottle neck in castleknock yet they have approved a shopping centre bang in the middle of the the bottle neck.

There is no cycle lane into the phoenix park from d. 15.

Agree with all that.

But we still need houses.

So this is a good place to build them.

beauf · 29-07-2017 10:23am

Only a matter of time before all the green area's are gone. Then D. 15 will be just another characterless concrete jungle, with bad traffic.

Larbre34 · 29-07-2017 11:25pm

beauf wrote: »

Only a matter of time before all the green area's are gone. Then D. 15 will be just another characterless concrete jungle, with bad traffic.

Thats a massive exaggeration.

beauf · 30-07-2017 1:57am

Don't see why. ...It is relentless.

Larbre34 · 30-07-2017 6:38pm

beauf wrote: »

Don't see why. ...It is relentless.

Its an exaggeration, because Dublin 15 is at least blessed with lots of public open spaces, greens, parks and playing pitches that are not going to be subject to housing development.

Yes, fair enough, a good few private sites that are currently overgrown and locked up and have never had public amenity value will eventually be built on, but its hardly the scenario you describe.

1123heavy · 30-07-2017 6:44pm

There are far too many people in the area. From arriving in 2009, the place has expanded like a balloon. Every road, every field, every bit of empty patch of land they can find they stick something on it. It is going too far at this stage. I went to a resident's meeting with Leo back in December and everyone in the audience was more concerned with whether a speed bump was going on road xyz rather than pointing out to him that the place is exploding!

Larbre34 · 30-07-2017 7:08pm

For God's sake, the place is not "exploding".

The reason the others at the meeting had other fish to fry is that your description is wrong.

December2012 · 30-07-2017 8:46pm

1123heavy wrote: »

There are far too many people in the area. From arriving in 2009, the place has expanded like a balloon. Every road, every field, every bit of empty patch of land they can find they stick something on it. It is going too far at this stage. I went to a resident's meeting with Leo back in December and everyone in the audience was more concerned with whether a speed bump was going on road xyz rather than pointing out to him that the place is exploding!

So you're allowed to move here during the last construction boom but you're objecting to others?

beauf · 30-07-2017 9:03pm

The point is the level of housing development is many times what has been invested in the transport network capacity.

So many schools even recent schools which had land around them now have none. Green areas are rezoned for building. The roads are far busier and traffic jams are now normal a few times a day in many places.

I suppose we have to accept that D.15 is destined to be a classic urban sprawl repeating all the problems that we've not learnt from that.

Former Former · 30-07-2017 9:26pm

beauf wrote: »

The point is the level of housing development is many times what has been invested in the transport network capacity.

So many schools even recent schools which had land around them now have none. Green areas are rezoned for building. The roads are far busier and traffic jams are now normal a few times a day in many places.

I suppose we have to accept that D.15 is destined to be a classic urban sprawl repeating all the problems that we've not learnt from that.

The horse has bolted on urban sprawl I'm afraid. That ship sailed in the 60s and 70s.

I'm sorry to be a dick but do you have any actual proposal as to what else should be done?

1123heavy · 30-07-2017 9:55pm

December2012 wrote: »

So you're allowed to move here during the last construction boom but you're objecting to others?

The plans have changed quite some bit since 2009.

The place is overloaded. That road up the back of Littlepace onto the N3 could be any road in Bangladesh with the amount of cars on it - it is mission impossible. Do a u-turn? Yes, head up via Blanch Centre way to find the biggest parking lot in the country at that time of the morning. Head via Clonee? A deceptive thought, the T junction by Lidl is as far as you get before you realise what a terrible decision. At this point one has to stop and simply admit we cannot handle what has happened to us. It was not like this in 2009.

The only people who ever make their voices heard are the speed bump brigade.

Former Former · 30-07-2017 10:16pm

1123heavy wrote: »

The plans have changed quite some bit since 2009.

The place is overloaded. That road up the back of Littlepace onto the N3 could be any road in Bangladesh with the amount of cars on it - it is mission impossible. Do a u-turn? Yes, head up via Blanch Centre way to find the biggest parking lot in the country at that time of the morning. Head via Clonee? A deceptive thought, the T junction by Lidl is as far as you get before you realise what a terrible decision. At this point one has to stop and simply admit we cannot handle what has happened to us. It was not like this in 2009.

The only people who ever make their voices heard are the speed bump brigade.

I don't know if you read the OP but the council is asking for submissions, so here's your chance.

Larbre34 · 30-07-2017 10:37pm

1123heavy wrote: »

The plans have changed quite some bit since 2009.

The place is overloaded. That road up the back of Littlepace onto the N3 could be any road in Bangladesh with the amount of cars on it - it is mission impossible. Do a u-turn? Yes, head up via Blanch Centre way to find the biggest parking lot in the country at that time of the morning. Head via Clonee? A deceptive thought, the T junction by Lidl is as far as you get before you realise what a terrible decision. At this point one has to stop and simply admit we cannot handle what has happened to us. It was not like this in 2009.

The only people who ever make their voices heard are the speed bump brigade.

Have you literally ever been anywhere in the world or am I feeding a troll here? Ive seen traffic in the Far East that would give you heart failure if you reckon a road busy for 45 mins around school opening time is as bad as Bangladesh. I hate to break it to you, but billions of people, even in small villages in Mayo get held up at that time of the morning. Would you ever get some perspective.

beauf · 30-07-2017 10:59pm

Former Former wrote: »

The horse has bolted on urban sprawl I'm afraid. That ship sailed in the 60s and 70s.

I'm sorry to be a dick but do you have any actual proposal as to what else should be done?

Raise the building height in the city

Increase the capacity in the trains. Stop making the trains shorter and using intercity trains for commuters. Use commuter carriages.

Run more trains into the docklands.

Build a proper cycle superhighways from .D15 into city center. One via park the other via canal.

Stop building things like national children hospitals in an already grid locked and land locked location. Build it outside the city so traffic to it heads out of the city.

Stop building tons of low density housing in locations where there is inadequate public transport.

I'm not sure why people think hour long queues in the phoenix park is normal. It's not LA.

vegetables · 30-07-2017 11:14pm

beauf wrote: »

Raise the building height in the city

Increase the capacity in the trains. Stop making the trains shorter and using intercity trains for commuters. Use commuter carriages.

Run more trains into the docklands.

Build a proper cycle superhighways from .D15 into city center. One via park the other via canal.

Stop building things like national children hospitals in an already grid locked and land locked location. Build it outside the city so traffic to it heads out of the city.

Stop building tons of low density housing in locations where there is inadequate public transport.

I'm not sure why people think hour long queues in the phoenix park is normal. It's not LA.

Yes sir I'll get right on it.

- Leo.

beauf · 30-07-2017 11:14pm

Larbre34 wrote: »

... even in small villages in Mayo get held up at that time of the morning. Would you ever get some perspective.

Where I am in D15 is 2hrs of heavy traffic morning and evening. Making some areas a no go area. If I go 5mins from my house it can 20mins to get back to it in the other direction. The vast majority of this traffic is just through traffic from outside the area.

This is all because there are only 3 single lane routes into city centre from D. 15 and from wherever the traffic coming through D. 15 is coming from.

Navan Rd. Castleknock and Chapelizod. All are bottlenecks. Their throughput has been reducing every year. They don't want cars in the city. So we have to move to other forms of transport.

Building more housing on train line that you often can't physically get on much of the time. Isn't much of a solution.

beauf · 30-07-2017 11:27pm

vegetables wrote: »

Yes sir I'll get right on it.

- Leo.

I think the developers interests will get higher priority as they always do..

Former Former · 30-07-2017 11:42pm

beauf wrote: »

I think the developers interests will get higher priority as they always do..

It's in everyone's interests. We need more housing stock.

A greenfield site directly adjacent to a train station is about as good as it's going to get.

Like, it's all very nice to say we should have cycle lanes - but the numbers of people who would cycle from Hansfield to town are miniscule, cycle superhighway or not. It's great to say we shouldn't have urban sprawl but no one wants to live in an apartment, we all want our house and garden once we turn 30. And we DEFINITELY don't want to live in high density that far out. Ongar is proof of that.

Let's be realistic here.

beauf · 30-07-2017 11:57pm

The planet is doomed...

vegetables · 31-07-2017 12:25am

Former Former wrote: »

It's in everyone's interests. We need more housing stock.

A greenfield site directly adjacent to a train station is about as good as it's going to get.

Like, it's all very nice to say we should have cycle lanes - but the numbers of people who would cycle from Hansfield to town are miniscule, cycle superhighway or not. It's great to say we shouldn't have urban sprawl but no one wants to live in an apartment, we all want our house and garden once we turn 30. And we DEFINITELY don't want to live in high density that far out. Ongar is proof of that.

Let's be realistic here.

does this only happen in Ireland, the obsession with a house and nothing but a house.

why can a person not be allowed to buy a cheap flat or apartment.

i see them on the continent when there on holidays, nothing big or fancy, just a cave to call home, on the 7th/8th floor.
price - maybe 80 grand.

i swear, this country - its like 'well i want it so obviously everyone else does too'.

the planning is - 'obviously everyone wants a semi-d with a garden for the children which they obviously want' so lets build that, and that alone, since nobody could possibly want to live anywhere other than in a semi-d with a 30 year mortgage.

maybe im wrong about this. just seems that way.

Dublin 15 is going to get a lot more congested.

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