Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

bangkok · 26-07-2017 07:29AM

Kirby wrote: »

Yikes I wouldn't have gone down that road mate. They reportedly bid 180 million on Neymar. And apparently he wants to go.

Fairly ambitious. Although some think its revenge for unsettling Verratti.

"Reportedly"

"Apparently"

They have still done a lot less than man utd

Mitch Connor · 26-07-2017 08:13AM

bangkok wrote: »

What about all the stories in early june that we bid 113m on mbappe then??

can you point to any? I don't remember a single article saying we have bid for him. I remember a lot of pieces saying we were interested and considering a bid, none saying we have.

bangkok · 26-07-2017 08:22AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

can you point to any? I don't remember a single article saying we have bid for him. I remember a lot of pieces saying we were interested and considering a bid, none saying we have.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/06/manchester-united-lodge-113-million-bid-for-arsenal-transfer-target-kylian-mbappe-6689205/

https://www.google.ie/amp/www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-transfer-news-mbappe-13146451.amp

And this one in May from the guardian...

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/may/03/kylian-mbappe-manchester-united-monaco

beno619 · 26-07-2017 08:24AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Yeah, no official statement on the mcfc site, but a load if stories saying they have, which I will go with.

Its makes your argument very weak.

beno619 · 26-07-2017 08:26AM

Kirby wrote: »

Real Madrid and Barca arent backed by middle east owners. They spend to beat the band.

Real Madrid & Barca are yet to spend money United couldnt. We have the current worlds most expensive player.

Mitch Connor · 26-07-2017 08:26AM

bangkok wrote: »

"Reportedly"

"Apparently"

They have still done a lot less than man utd

Ambition doesn't mean closed deals.

If you don't believe they have made a concrete move to sign Neymar then I suppose we have absolutely no grounds for any discussion here.

My opinion is they are absolutely trying to sign Neymar and will pay his buyout clause if he agrees to sign for them. That is ambition. That is trying to improve to the best degree they can, and pushing to win their league again and improve their competitiveness in the CL.

United are moaning that the transfer market is too tough to buy players in while trying to sign Perisic and Dier.

To me, those are vastly different attitudes to squad improvement, and a willingness to pay whats required to get the players you want. Just as City wanted Walker and paid Spurs what they wanted to get him.

I'm not saying United are not showing ambition based purely on us not bidding for Mbappe. I'm not bothered with us not moving for him - though I am very disappointed we are not making an effort to buy Neymar. My issue, with regards ambition is that other clubs are putting up the money to sign the players they feel are required to give them the best chance of winning trophies. United are just constantly saying the transfer market is nearly impossible to work in. Jose is saying he wants 2 more players, but that the club might not be able to give him the players he says he needs. Our manager is saying he needs something, and the club is not providing it to him - with excuses being made as to why thats the case.

Leroy42 · 26-07-2017 08:30AM

The Mbappe bid is incredible and RM are really a class apart, but they always have been.

But MU already have some serious young potential in their ranks.

Pogba, Rashford, Martial and even at a stretch Lukaku could all potentially be world beaters. Pogba almost certainly, the others still have question marks over but then Mbappe could have had one of those incredible seasons. Look at Vardy in 15/16. Pretty much everything he touched went in. Mbappe may well turn out to be the worlds best but we already have our young players and at some stage you need to back them and go with what you have.

Martial in particular, now has added incentive to get off his backside and start to deliver. Only 18 months ago he was where Mbappe is now, world at his feet, everyone talking about him. If he doesn't get his act together he will disappear. Its up to him but MU need to give him that chance.

We have the one of worlds best, and still very young, goalkeeper, two young CB's, in Shaw a potential left back for years, Darmian could be the same on the other side. MU have spent the money on the players. Whether those players deliver is open to question to simply spunking money on other young players won't necessarily solve the problem

Mitch Connor · 26-07-2017 08:32AM

bangkok wrote: »

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/06/manchester-united-lodge-113-million-bid-for-arsenal-transfer-target-kylian-mbappe-6689205/

https://www.google.ie/amp/www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-united-transfer-news-mbappe-13146451.amp

And this one in May from the guardian...

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2017/may/03/kylian-mbappe-manchester-united-monaco

Metro article cites AS, which doesn't say United have bid for him.

MEN article cites the same AS article, which still doesn't state United have bid for him.

If the article from the Guardian is correct then bully, we bid for him. Nowhere near a price that would actually get him (same with Perisic, Dier and Matic apparently - so failing to even agree a fee for the players identified)

bucketybuck · 26-07-2017 08:38AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

My issue, with regards ambition is that other clubs are putting up the money to sign the players they feel are required to give them the best chance of winning trophies. United are just constantly saying the transfer market is nearly impossible to work in.

The problem is that this isn't true.

Despite United repeatedly and recently spending world record amounts on players, because City come along and display the worst excesses of cheque book management you have now decided that United lack ambition. The reality doesn't match your complaints.

I'll judge this transfer window when it closes and believe me I will be critical if it doesn't deliver what I think the club needs. But the criteria for judging the clubs ambitions certainly won't be set against Pep's prodigality or PSG's willy waving.

Leroy42 · 26-07-2017 08:40AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Metro article cites AS, which doesn't say United have bid for him.

MEN article cites the same AS article, which still doesn't state United have bid for him.

If the article from the Guardian is correct then bully, we bid for him. Nowhere near a price that would actually get him (same with Perisic, Dier and Matic apparently - so failing to even agree a fee for the players identified)

But I think it reasonable to say that really the media don't have much clue as to the goings on in transfer, esp with MU.

We might well have inquired about him, sounded it out. I guess they do that with pretty much every top level player. "If we were interested what type of money are we talking about" kind of thing. You would have to do that to have any semblance of a strategy. Doesn't mean we are seriously considering it, just an option that might be considered if other factors align.

I wouldn't read too much into how much/little transfer talk is in the media

bangkok · 26-07-2017 08:45AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Ambition doesn't mean closed deals.

If you don't believe they have made a concrete move to sign Neymar then I suppose we have absolutely no grounds for any discussion here.

My opinion is they are absolutely trying to sign Neymar and will pay his buyout clause if he agrees to sign for them. That is ambition. That is trying to improve to the best degree they can, and pushing to win their league again and improve their competitiveness in the CL.

United are moaning that the transfer market is too tough to buy players in while trying to sign Perisic and Dier.

To me, those are vastly different attitudes to squad improvement, and a willingness to pay whats required to get the players you want. Just as City wanted Walker and paid Spurs what they wanted to get him.

I'm not saying United are not showing ambition based purely on us not bidding for Mbappe. I'm not bothered with us not moving for him - though I am very disappointed we are not making an effort to buy Neymar. My issue, with regards ambition is that other clubs are putting up the money to sign the players they feel are required to give them the best chance of winning trophies. United are just constantly saying the transfer market is nearly impossible to work in. Jose is saying he wants 2 more players, but that the club might not be able to give him the players he says he needs. Our manager is saying he needs something, and the club is not providing it to him - with excuses being made as to why thats the case.

You say ambition doesnt mean closed deals, then we are one of the most ambitious teams around, always linked to the best players in the world.

We would have signed griezmann only for madrid transfer ban. You see yourself jose saying to bale he needs to talk to force a move.

We blew both real madrid and barca along with psg out of the transfer market for Pogba last summer.

What more do you want? Neymar to PSG is all bluff the same way ronaldo to united is bluff.

paulbok · 26-07-2017 08:45AM

brinty wrote: »

My point is who we're these alternative players we could've gotten instead of di maria,pogba or lukaku, you said there were loads of alternatives.. so who were they???

And I do agree with you re we shouldn't be held to ransom and throw money at every problem but sometimes you've got to spend a little too .. and I'm saying that as a boring accountant..

I think he was on about not over spending on some of our current targets (eg Persic), at least that's how I read it.

Brendan Flowers · 26-07-2017 08:47AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Cool, so it was a completely meaningless statement on absolutely every level. Wibble from Woodward.

And that seems to be your single biggest problem. Just like you seem to take certain articles as gospel, just because someone online interprets a quote a certain way doesn't actually mean that was what it meant.

Woodward said Utd could do things in the transfer market that other clubs could only dream of. Last season Woodward and Man Utd broke the world transfer record. The year before that they broke the record for a fee paid for a teenager. The year before that they smashed the British transfer record.

How many times do these FACTS need to be pointed out to you?

26-07-2017 08:57AM

https://twitter.com/TotallyMUFC/status/890132560331898880

mewe · 26-07-2017 09:04AM

Brendan Flowers wrote:

How many times do these FACTS need to be pointed out to you?

That reminded me of Rafa. Always gives me a laugh

mewe · 26-07-2017 09:06AM

The fee for Mbappe is ridiculous and United would be stupid to pay that amount.

Adamocovic · 26-07-2017 09:07AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

My issue, with regards ambition is that other clubs are putting up the money to sign the players they feel are required to give them the best chance of winning trophies. United are just constantly saying the transfer market is nearly impossible to work in.

But that's the thing, we have been putting up money. A couple of posts back I posted how between 2010-2016 we were ranked in top 3 of all clubs in terms of money spend. Currently for last 5 seasons (excluding current window as it's not closed) we are 2nd in the PL only behind City. Slightly.

We have been spending money. So much money. To an extent that other fans begrudge us for it. I cannot understand the argument that we haven't been putting up the money to sign players to improve the club. Even this window we've already spent £75million on a striker to improve our goal rates.

Over the last 4 seasons off the top of my head we've brought in players like Zlatan, Falcao, Martial, Memphis, Pogba, Blind, Herrera, Mkhitaryan, Martial, Di Maria, Schweinsteiger, Bailly, Rojo, Lindelof, Lukaku, Mata, Darmian, Shaw and a few more in efforts to improve. All if not the majority of those players highly regarded in the football community.

As before. For me if we want to compete it is about making it work on the pitch and not just on paper. Bringing in players has not been a problem.
I'm aware you are a fan of Neymar and probably a bit annoyed that he appears to be going elsewhere, haven't even considered the idea that Mourinho wants him myself, but at the end of the day I can't see how you can argue that we have not been trying to sign players to give us the best chance to win trophies, also have you forgotten we won 2 last season?

On the saying the market is too tough, this is something Jose complains about every season. I'm not sure if it's his way of distracting media, getting shareholders on board to spending more money, or he genuinely believes it. But every season Jose complains he needs more signings and also that the window is more difficult now with fees rising and agents having more say.

I can still see 2 more big signings before window is finished. But even if there isn't it cannot be said that we have not been spending big in efforts to return to the top. If anything that is what we have been criticised most for in the last few seasons.

bangkok · 26-07-2017 09:22AM

Also to be clear, mbappe is worth no where the money being touted. Only a few months ago he was valued around the 70m mark but the fees being paid this summer have driven prices sky high.

He is an exceptional talent no doubt about it, so too is rashford and martial. either of them be "worth" close to 100m now if mbappe is going to go for 160m

Adamocovic · 26-07-2017 09:27AM

Phil Jones talked to MUTV about that header :pac:

“It was one of those things,” Jones said. “I misjudged the ball from a goal kick. The ball bounced, I slipped. I tried to get up, I slipped again.

“The only thing I could do was improvise and try to head the ball away, because Giroud was through on goal. It looked silly at the time, but it did the job.

“Looking back on it, it was the slipping and trying to get up stage – that was the funny part. All my mates take the mick out of me for it!

“It was just improvisation. You do what you have to do as a defender. You have to put your neck on the line.”

Hard to think it was 2015!

Mitch Connor · 26-07-2017 09:33AM

Adamocovic wrote: »

But that's the thing, we have been putting up money. A couple of posts back I posted how between 2010-2016 we were ranked in top 3 of all clubs in terms of money spend. Currently for last 5 seasons (excluding current window as it's not closed) we are 2nd in the PL only behind City. Slightly.

We have been spending money. So much money. To an extent that other fans begrudge us for it. I cannot understand the argument that we haven't been putting up the money to sign players to improve the club. Even this window we've already spent £75million on a striker to improve our goal rates.

Over the last 4 seasons off the top of my head we've brought in players like Zlatan, Falcao, Martial, Memphis, Pogba, Blind, Herrera, Mkhitaryan, Martial, Di Maria, Schweinsteiger, Bailly, Rojo, Lindelof, Lukaku, Mata, Darmian, Shaw and a few more in efforts to improve. All if not the majority of those players highly regarded in the football community.

As before. For me if we want to compete it is about making it work on the pitch and not just on paper. Bringing in players has not been a problem.
I'm aware you are a fan of Neymar and probably a bit annoyed that he appears to be going elsewhere, haven't even considered the idea that Mourinho wants him myself, but at the end of the day I can't see how you can argue that we have not been trying to sign players to give us the best chance to win trophies, also have you forgotten we won 2 last season?

On the saying the market is too tough, this is something Jose complains about every season. I'm not sure if it's his way of distracting media, getting shareholders on board to spending more money, or he genuinely believes it. But every season Jose complains he needs more signings and also that the window is more difficult now with fees rising and agents having more say.

I can still see 2 more big signings before window is finished. But even if there isn't it cannot be said that we have not been spending big in efforts to return to the top. If anything that is what we have been criticised most for in the last few seasons.

You are talking about money in the past though for the most part. Money spent in the past isn't particularly helpful this summer. United finished 6th last season. We need to improve the squad this summer, way beyond what we have already done, if we want to improve our competitiveness.

Lukaku, great deal imo. great. But it isn't nearly enough to bring us back to the level we should be at and need to be aiming at.

Yes, we won the League Cup and Europa League last season, great, enjoyed both of those wins but they are not the primary targets in any season. The title (finished 6th last season) and the CL (miles behind the real giants of football) are the trophies we should be targetting and I don't think the squad quality is good enough to win either of those, and it isn't looking like we will get the deals done that would make us good enough.

People tell me to ignore the media and focus on things the club confirm and say - but if I do that I am to ignore any speculation we are trying to get Matic, Dier or Perisic and consider Jose saying it might be impossible for us to sign the players he wants and needs - that although other clubs can sign important players we are finding it too difficult. When I do point that out, people then tell me to ignore that and concentrate on the ongoing links to Perisic, Matic and Dier - but to also ignore it all.

My basic opinion is that the United squad isn't good enough as it is, and Jose is saying we are finding it impossible to get the signings he feels are required to get it where it needs to be. If United are not capable of providing the squad the manager has asked for, it is because, imo, we are showing a lack of ambition and settingly for a squad that will battle for 4th rather than a title.

StringerBell · 26-07-2017 09:39AM

So according to the BBC city are officially denying making a bid or even pursuing mbappe at the prices quoted.

That put that one to bed then?
On to the next?

I guess, just cuz you read it somewhere or sky tell you their sources say something doesn't always make it true.......who knew

Adamocovic · 26-07-2017 09:41AM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

You are talking about money in the past though for the most part. Money spent in the past isn't particularly helpful this summer.

Eh? I'm wrapping my head around this one. Surely investment can be long-term and players bought in the past for positions should be helpful this summer as we won't need to bring in players for those positions?

I think it's a bit ridiculous to disregard money spent in last 5 seasons as majority of those players remain at the club.

Current window isn't closed yet so I don't see the point of comparing our spend with other clubs as lots can happen but if it pleases you we are currently 3rd in terms of club transfer spend in the PL.

I think I'm going to just stop here. How anyone can argue that we haven't been spending enough money is beyond me. Absolutely beyond me.

Cantona's Collars · 26-07-2017 09:42AM

https://twitter.com/RyanBaldiFW/status/890096828888338433

As already picked their target to be replaced by mBappe.

Lord TSC · 26-07-2017 09:43AM

StringerBell wrote: »

So according to the BBC city are officially denying making a bid or even pursuing mbappe at the prices quoted.

That put that one to bed then?
On to the next?

I guess, just cuz you read it somewhere or sky tell you their sources say something doesn't always make it true.......who knew

They seem to be telling different press different things, as their most reliable journalists are reporting conflicting info...of City have realised their bid failed and are now backtracking

ElChe32 · 26-07-2017 09:46AM

What kind of money would Madrid be looking for Bale? 70-90m? He'd be a fantastic signing if he can keep injury free.

Lord TSC · 26-07-2017 09:48AM

English press will be thrilled. They'll get six weeks out of Bale to us no problem...

pjohnson · 26-07-2017 09:50AM

ElChe32 wrote: »

What kind of money would Madrid be looking for Bale? 70-90m? He'd be a fantastic signing if he can keep injury free.

Prob the 100m tbh.

Mitch Connor · 26-07-2017 09:51AM

Adamocovic wrote: »

Eh? I'm wrapping my head around this one. Surely investment can be long-term and players bought in the past for positions should be helpful this summer as we won't need to bring in players for those positions?

I think it's a bit ridiculous to disregard money spent in last 5 seasons as majority of those players remain at the club.

Current window isn't closed yet so I don't see the point of comparing our spend with other clubs as lots can happen but if it pleases you we are currently 3rd in terms of club transfer spend in the PL.

I think I'm going to just stop here. How anyone can argue that we haven't been spending enough money is beyond me. Absolutely beyond me.

I've not said, even once, we have not spent money. I feel we haven't spent enough - on the basis we don't have signings we need, done. We need more signings, therefor we need more money to be spent.

The money we spent previously (some of it already out the door in the shapes of Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Memphis and Di Maria) produced a squad that finished 6th last season. 5th(?) the season before and 4th the season before that. The squad is, evidently, not good enough to win the league in its current form. If we want to win the league, it needs to be improved. I do not, personally, believe that Lukaku replacing Ibrahimovic will result in the improvement required.

Jose has said repeatedly that he is/was targeting four key positions. My assumption is those 4 positions targeted are what he feels is required to make United competitive in the league, maybe the CL too. We haven't got those 4 players. We have got two and he is saying he doesn't know if the club will be capable of getting the remaining two, that it might be impossible. If the club is refusing to spend the money required to create a squad the manager feels in minimaly required to be at the level needed, how is that not showing a lack of ambition? By not spending the money, they are not providing the manager with the tools he has said he needs.

Mitch Connor · 26-07-2017 09:52AM

ElChe32 wrote: »

What kind of money would Madrid be looking for Bale? 70-90m? He'd be a fantastic signing if he can keep injury free.

They wanted that off us for their substitute striker Morata. They will probably be looking to match the fee for Mbappe based on that. (At which point we'd be better off, imo, trying to get Neymar!)

Leroy42 · 26-07-2017 09:54AM

Do we need a player like Bale? Great player, but injury prone and likely to get worse as speed is a major factor in his game.

Where would he fit into the team and who would lose out?

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

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