Stormont power sharing talks

Irishweather wrote: »

Shouldn't be given equal rights as English speakers though.

They need to sit down trash out what an act would look like.

The need for an act to protect the native language in line with Scotland and Wales has been agreed.
The DUP petulance has to end.

Irishweather wrote: »

What does that entail?

Google their (SDLP/SF) proposals. Broadly similar.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They need to sit down trash out what an act would look like.

The need for an act to protect the native language in line with Scotland and Wales has been agreed.
The DUP petulance has to end.

There is no agreement with the DUP on an Irish Languages Act.

Irishweather wrote: »

10% employment? Irish Road signs? Irish Courts?

No thanks!

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There is no coercion there, you do not have to have Irish to function.

Why, no thanks?

That seems more than a little over the top given the figures we have seen quoted for the number of Irish speakers. Once again, when it comes to Northern Ireland, it is more about one of the sides winning against the other than a genuine attempt to deal with the issue, in this case, to promote the language.

Jep Gambardella wrote: »

According to the 2011 census, Irish was the main language of 0.238% of Northern Irish residents, while Ulster Scots was the main language of 0.004%. In other words, a grand total of 0.242% of the population of Northern Ireland speaks either as their primary language

Both the DUP and Sinn Fein should get their Language Act (or Acts) provided their assembly members agree to finance all the additional costs, including translation, signage, etc. out of their own pockets.

blanch152 wrote: »

That seems more than a little over the top given the figures we have seen quoted for the number of Irish speakers. Once again, when it comes to Northern Ireland, it is more about one of the sides winning against the other than a genuine attempt to deal with the issue, in this case, to promote the language.

Yeah. It's actually depressing to see someone argue that the revival of an important European language is interpreted as the other side winning.

Perhaps all nationalists should go over to the other side, relinquish their identity and embrace PUL culture fully. Yes, that's what they should do in the interests of harmony and unity. Right, all nationalists should immediately apply to join the Orange Order. Oh wait...

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Never never never call out the blatant bigoted anti Irishness of the DUP on it's own. It is always the fault of the Irish or at best - when you cannot deny, or dilute the blatant bigotry of the DUP - both sides at fault.

The times they are a-changin...

blanch152 wrote: »

Again, nobody ever said that, so I don't know what argument you are refuting.

The important European language has already been revived in places where it never died out. It died out in Northern Ireland. As already demonstrated through links, Ulster Irish died in the 1970s.



P.S. The exact same arguments that you use could be made by those promoting Ulster Scots

Nope. It's a dialect, not a language. You might as well be trying to promote the Yorkshire dialect.

The EU confirmed Irish as an official language of the EU with all that goes with that designation. Therefore they have very different statuses. So you cannot make the same argument.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

The EU confirmed Irish as an official language of the EU with all that goes with that designation. Therefore they have very different statuses. So you cannot make the same argument.

Does that mean we have to make Polish an official language of the South?

There are more native Polish speakers in the Republic than there are native Irish speakers in the North.

blanch152 wrote: »

Unfortunately, despite the best efforts to paint many people on here as defenders of the DUP, that ignores the nuances of the views held by those perceived as being anti-nationalist (For myself, I am a constitutional nationalist that supports the aspiration of a united Ireland but not without significant buy-in from the unionist community).

I think there are a few things that I hope we all can agree on:

Nobody has defended the DUP position on same-sex marriage. Nobody has defended the burning of effigies and flags.

However, it would be true to say that there are some who continue to defend everything nationalist, no matter how bigoted, no matter how wrong. For example, there are people who see nothing wrong with Sinn Fein selling terrorist propaganda material on their website.

We have been over this before, SF, and their supporters, simply do not see those who fought in the IRA as 'terrorists'.
Maggie Thatcher and people such as yourself can bandy that useless selective word about until the cows come home, but the reality is that is the way it is.

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy the badge just as nobody is forced to buy a poppy.


If you are a 'constitutional nationalist' where is you support for an already agreed deal on a language act and your condemnation of those who have brought down the executive by constantly blocking democratic rights available to every other citizen on these islands?

blanch152 wrote: »

In the same way that you see nothing wrong with selling Belfast Brigade badges on the Sinn Fein website, there are Unionists who see nothing wrong with burning Irish flags.

The fact that both are offensive is obvious to the outsider.

Get back to me when honouring your dead, celebrating your past is a crime.
Would you be similarly against the Para's or British army selling memorabilia?

As I said earlier I would be in favour of a ban on this kind of memorialising, but all sides in the conflict do it.

Burning flags in a provocative way, targeting people of colour, just because of their colour or because of their religion is wrong and in some cases against the law.

What do you mean by "democratic rights"? It is a mere sound-bite.

"Democratic rights" could mean the 8th Amendment or the Single Transferable Vote.

Democratically agreed rights are just a 'sound bite' to a 'constitutional nationalist' now?

A language act was agreed at St Andrew's, where is the constitutional nationalists condemnation of those who are blocking that?

*If SF cherrypicked and said they where not going to support the Police down the road from the Agreement, I fear our 'constitutional nationalist' would be having a fit about that.

blanch152 wrote: »

Never said that the selling of IRA memorabilia on the SF website was a crime.

However, it is the definition of sectarianism.

No it isn't
All sides will honour/commemorate their dead, and eulogise those who it is deemed achieced for them, tastefully and not so much so.
Arlene is still upset about the men and women if 1916 but will enthusiastically attend rituals celebrating the British army who have a controversial record on this island; no bother being seen with a loyalist paramilitary either.

If they were forcing somebody to wear or visit the website (I have never even seen these badges/t-shirts etc ) you might have a point.

But well done diverting away from the reason that the executive has collapsed...yet again.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

If that's what Polish people want then of course it should be recognised. Its status should be in alignment with the number of people who want to learn it, speak it and in alignment with its cultural and historical significance in Ireland. But as an official language of the EU, the same as Irish, it already has recognition.

Lots of Polish children are learning Irish. In fact, some attend gaelscoileanna and play hurling and football. Perhaps they should apply to join the Orange Order?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/call-for-polish-to-join-irish-and-english-as-official-languages-of-state-1.973986


I take it that you will support this campaign then. By the way, with more speakers, should it have a higher status than Irish?

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

An article about an article about a man's opinion in which he himself says it won't happen. It won't happen because it would require a referendum. And because many of his countrymen thinks it's silly and unnecessary. Oh and your link is from 2007.

So some randomer has a brainfart in 2007 which he himself immediately scuppers and it's a 'campaign'?

With respect, you should read articles before you link to them for support. It wasted my time.

I am told every day about the inevitability of a lot of things that won't get through a referendum.

The Polish thing is a red herring. Irish is the native langauge that predated the langauge of the invader/coloniser. If the Polish spoke Russian and were seeking a Polish Language act, in thier homeland, as recognition of the historic nature of their native langauge it would be comparable.