Brexit discussion thread II

Fratton Fred · 15-07-2017 01:51PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

And workers' rights will be greatly diminished

Will they? what do you base your assertion on? can you point to the specific piece of policy that states workers rights will be greatly diminished?

steddyeddy wrote: »

A very successful political and economic union shouldn't change its policies in order to appease xenophobes.

hhmmm, there is a lot of xenophobia kicking around alright:rolleyes:

ultimately though, does wanting to restrict immigration xenophobic? if it is, why does the eu not allow free movement of people from all over the world and why does it have a policy that eu nationals should be given favoritism over third country nationals?

is the eu xenophobic on a continental scale, rather than a country one?

Professor Moriarty · 15-07-2017 02:09PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Will they? what do you base your assertion on? can you point to the specific piece of policy that states workers rights will be greatly diminished?

Sure. The Great Repeal Bill. Once passed and Britain has left the EU, workers' rights will be at the mercy of the Tories. May promised to retain all EU employment law in her election manifesto. I don't believe her. Anyone who believes that the elitist Tories won't dismantle workers' rights asap to please their big business cronies and funders is a fool.

15-07-2017 02:12PM

Which worker's rights do you think May will look to diminish?

I'm pretty anti-hard Brexit myself but I don't know which 'red-tape' with respect to worker's rights that anyone has any specific interest in making moves against.

Perhaps the working time directive. Perhaps. But anything else particularly?

FWIW - https://redtapeinitiative.org.uk/ & https://www.civilserviceworld.com/articles/news/letwin-reveals-details-brexit-focused-initiative-cut-red-tape I actually think this is a good thing from an EU perspective. If the UK does find any 'quick wins' that they believe are relatively painless and have cross party support and applies them, then the EU will have the opportunity to observe effects and if they are indeed quick wins, copy them.

steddyeddy · 15-07-2017 02:14PM

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Will they? what do you base your assertion on? can you point to the specific piece of policy that states workers rights will be greatly diminished?

hhmmm, there is a lot of xenophobia kicking around alright:rolleyes:

ultimately though, does wanting to restrict immigration xenophobic? if it is, why does the eu not allow free movement of people from all over the world and why does it have a policy that eu nationals should be given favoritism over third country nationals?

is the eu xenophobic on a continental scale, rather than a country one?

No it isn't. However the UK government comprises the Tories and the DUP. Sammy Wilson agreed that removing "ethnics from Northern Ireland was a good idea. Show me your friends and I'll tell you who they are.

Capt'n Midnight · 15-07-2017 02:23PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

If true, it sets a pretty bad precedent whereby the EU will bend over backwards just to appease the British Eurosceptics.

What concessions are the UK making in return ?

At this stage I take any UK announcement with a pinch of salt.
"we can have our cake and eat it"
"we don't need to make concessions"
vs. well documented EU position papers and history.

Who else in the EU would like these new rules and who wouldn't ?
And what would it take to appease both sides and is the UK worth the hassle ?

An Ciarraioch · 15-07-2017 02:45PM

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0715/890456-blair-brexit/

Not sure where he's getting this from. How do you tighten up free movement. It makes no sense?

This is precisely what Cameron was looking for before calling the referendum, and he got nowhere.

steddyeddy · 15-07-2017 02:56PM

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

This is precisely what Cameron was looking for before calling the referendum, and he got nowhere.

People seem to be forgetting this point. Cameron already tried to negotiate even better terms for the UK and got nowhere.

LeinsterDub · 15-07-2017 03:30PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

People seem to be forgetting this point. Cameron already tried to negotiate even better terms for the UK and got nowhere.

In fairness he got a few concessions but he was never going to get enough to appease the hardcore brexiters

steddyeddy · 15-07-2017 03:37PM

LeinsterDub wrote: »

In fairness he got a few concessions but he was never going to get enough to appease the hardcore brexiters

All those concessions will be lost if the UK re-renter the EU according to Guy Verhofstadt. They will likely lose the pound too.

LeinsterDub · 15-07-2017 03:39PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

All those concessions will be lost if the UK re-renter the EU according to Guy Verhofstadt. They will likely lose the pound too.

That's the case of an exit and reentry. If they never leave I assume they stay on current terms

Korat · 15-07-2017 03:46PM

I think the UK is too far down the road already to abort Brexit but if a transitional deal is agreed to last until the next election it could remain/re-enter under new terms, less favourable the ones the left under though. Rebates and opt-outs will be gone for sure.

LeinsterDub · 15-07-2017 03:57PM

Korat wrote: »

I think the UK is too far down the road already to abort Brexit but if a transitional deal is agreed to last until the next election it could remain/re-enter under new terms, less favourable the ones the left under though. Rebates and opt-outs will be gone for sure.

Would they realistically get unanimous support for reentry?

murphaph · 15-07-2017 04:19PM

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Would they realistically get unanimous support for reentry?

As time passes it gets less and less likely. Several countries, including Ireland would take them back with all existing opt-outs but I'm sure some would not.

Professor Moriarty · 15-07-2017 04:22PM

Korat wrote: »

I think the UK is too far down the road already to abort Brexit but if a transitional deal is agreed to last until the next election it could remain/re-enter under new terms, less favourable the ones the left under though. Rebates and opt-outs will be gone for sure.

Would we get to keep the 100 billion?

LeinsterDub · 15-07-2017 04:33PM

murphaph wrote: »

As time passes it gets less and less likely. Several countries, including Ireland would take them back with all existing opt-outs but I'm sure some would not.

Some countries (France?) may never take them back even if they come back with their cap in hand willing to accept any terms and conditions

LeinsterDub · 15-07-2017 04:45PM

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/15/dublin-first-choice-london-banks-brexit-relocation-plans

In boardrooms across London, bank executives are deciding where to move tens of thousands of jobs in the event of a hard Brexit. Rival European financial centres, including Paris, Frankfurt and Luxembourg, are vying for the business – but Dublin is emerging as the most popular destination..... with 19 firms mentioning a possible move to the Irish capital.

Good news for us. Over a quarter of companies moving staff into the EU 27

So what is it that makes Dublin, a city with a population of 1.4 million and a chronic housing shortage, no international schools and a stained history in banking so attractive?

Less so.

Professor Moriarty · 15-07-2017 05:04PM

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jul/15/dublin-first-choice-london-banks-brexit-relocation-plans

Good news for us. Over a quarter of companies moving staff into the EU 27

Less so.

We're really nice people. Just look at Boards.

Or maybe it's the shush...corporation tax rate.....shush.

mickoneill31 · 15-07-2017 05:16PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

We're really nice people. Just look at Boards.

Or maybe it's the shush...corporation tax rate.....shush.

Language, location, law, infrastructure etc. etc.
Of course tax is a consideration. Why the "shush"?

Water John · 15-07-2017 05:19PM

If a Co was wanting staff to move from London, Dublin would be much less of a cultural change and an easier sell.

Professor Moriarty · 15-07-2017 05:19PM

mickoneill31 wrote: »

Language, location, law, infrastructure.

How does our location help? I'm not an expert, but from what I read our infrastructure is relatively poor. Law and language I'd definitely agree with.

Water John · 15-07-2017 05:21PM

You see Prof, I can answer you questions, before you even ask them.

solodeogloria · 15-07-2017 05:23PM

mickoneill31 wrote: »

Language, location, law, infrastructure etc. etc.
Of course tax is a consideration. Why the "shush"?

Good evening!

Do you really think that infrastructure is Ireland's boon over other European Union countries?

If you've ever been in Frankfurt Airport you'll see that the rail infrastructure there is something to behold. Not only do they have a short distance rail station into Frankfurt they also have a long distance station which brings people to other European capitals and throughout Germany.

Dublin's public transport lags substantially behind other countries and it has a housing crisis. It could capitalise much much better than it does.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

mickoneill31 · 15-07-2017 05:23PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

How does our location help? I'm not an expert, but from what I read our infrastructure is relatively poor. Law and language I'd definitely agree with.

Location to UK. Not a huge move if people are relocating. West Coast of Europe. Closest to US.

Broadband infrastructure is pretty good in business areas. Plenty of data centres. Many companies already have a major presence here.

mickoneill31 · 15-07-2017 05:28PM

solodeogloria wrote: »

Good evening!

Do you really think that infrastructure is Ireland's boon over other European Union countries?

If you've ever been in Frankfurt Airport you'll see that the rail infrastructure there is something to behold. Not only do they have a short distance rail station into Frankfurt they also have a long distance station which brings people to other European capitals and throughout Germany.

Dublin's public transport lags substantially behind other countries and it has a housing crisis. It could capitalise much much better than it does.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

Good afternoon.

Infrastructure is not just roads and airports. Internet links, data centres, ports on the west of Europe etc are infrastructure too.
Its easy enough to point out where we're crap. We all know that our transport system is crap. And we all know that our government is way too slow at improving this to capitalise on opportunity.

For some companies rail and public transport might be priority number one. They won't come here.

I didn't say Irelands infrastructure is the best. Its still a consideration for a company when considering relocating here.

Junkyard Tom · 15-07-2017 05:30PM

Nody wrote: »

Chances are that a 10% price increase would lose you way more than 10% of your customers simply because of easier to get alternatives.

That might be offset by brand loyalty, but yeah, fair enough. My main point is that the sales won't evaporate and the hit the large multinationals will experience won't be nearly as bad as some Brexiters might have us believe.

LeinsterDub · 15-07-2017 05:33PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

How does our location help? I'm not an expert, but from what I read our infrastructure is relatively poor. Law and language I'd definitely agree with.

Close to London

Lemming · 15-07-2017 06:15PM

Joining in late, but RE Tony Blair's comments, I think that the headlines are misleading. If you read what he says, he's not saying what the headlines (surprise surprise ...) claim he is.

His point is - I believe - that the EU is already starting to have a conversation about reform albeit in embryonic stages, in part because of #Wrexsh1t, but also in part because of the recent rise (and thankful beat down) of the far right in various countries not least France, and the ongoing refugee/migrant crisis. So the UK agreeing to grow the f*ck up and engaging with the rest of the EU in a meaningful manner rather than hurling sh1t from the ditch might see a better outcome for all concerned.

Water John · 15-07-2017 06:24PM

Yes, esp with Macron and even the recent speech by Juncker, the EU seems getting ready to reinvigorate itself.
It should take great pride in what it has achieved but not be overly occupied at moving towards a single union.

Fratton Fred · 15-07-2017 06:25PM

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Close to London

It's further than Paris.

Fratton Fred · 15-07-2017 06:28PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Sure. The Great Repeal Bill. Once passed and Britain has left the EU, workers' rights will be at the mercy of the Tories. May promised to retain all EU employment law in her election manifesto. I don't believe her. Anyone who believes that the elitist Tories won't dismantle workers' rights asap to please their big business cronies and funders is a fool.

So nothing at all then, you just don't like the Tories. Who, by the way, can be voted out iof parliament at the next general election, whenever that may be.

Are eu countries the only countries in the world with workers rights?

Brexit discussion thread II

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