Are you paternal?

farmchoice · 03-07-2017 05:17PM

i dont think i ever really wanted children, i was/am a naturally lazy person so all the work didn't appeal to me, i was the eldest of 6 myself so babies held no mystery for me i was all too aware of the realities of it.
the wife wanted them though and i went with the flow, sure its what you do.

so now i have 3 (had four we lost one little lad when he was a couple of weeks old).
after the first one i could have left it at that and after the second one i really didn't want a third. eventually after 3 i stood up for myself and said no more, even though herself wants a 4th.
I'm pretty sure she is planning to trick me into it (i think she is planning to have her coil taken out on the Q.T.).

being a parent is the hardest thing in the wold it completely consumes your life in every way and its forever and the repercussions of doing it wrong or making mistake can be extremely serious for all concerned.

its also without a doubt the greatest thing in the human experience nothing else comes close, nothing, love, sex, heroin, cocaine winning the world cup, noting is even close
'
and I'm not talking about the birth or the first words I'm talking about every day in every way. the love you feel for your children and theirs for you is so all encompassing and unconditional in every way as to all most being a force.

i would happily die for my children and i would kill anyone who tried to do harm to them. i mean that, i have never been in a fight in my life but i would pull out your throat with my teeth if i thought i had to to stop you hurting one of my children.

the human experience is incomplete in a fundamental way if you dont ever have children and you dont understand it until you do it, being an involved aunt or uncle is no where near it.

yourdeadwright · 03-07-2017 05:18PM

I never really thought about it much until the OH brought it up in January , Just something we never really focused on but now we are expecting our first with a due date of new years day and I can't wait

03-07-2017 05:23PM

farmchoice wrote: »

its also without a doubt the greatest thing in the human experience nothing else comes close, nothing, love, sex, heroin, cocaine winning the world cup, noting is even close
'
and I'm not talking about the birth or the first words I'm talking about every day in every way. the love you fell for your children and theirs for you is so all encompassing and unconditional in every way as to all most being a force.

i would happily die for my children and i wouyld kill anyone who tried to do harm to them. i mean that, i have never been in a fight in my life but i would pull out your throat with my teeth if i though i had to to stop you hurting one of my children.

the human experience is incomplete in a fundamental way if you dont ever have children and you dont understand it until you do it, being an involved aunt or uncle is no where near it.

I respectfully disagree with your last paragraph. It's lovely that for you having children has been a wonderful experience, especially in light of you once not being interested in having them. However we each engage with and are affected by life in different ways. What completes one person's human experience is different for another.

Divelment · 03-07-2017 10:27PM

HalloweenJack wrote: »

Another influencing factor for me is my own family history. I'm from a single-parent family and I have no relationship whatsoever with my father. I never had a proper father which has led to think I don't know how to be a father or that I'd be like my father and give up when it gets too tough, as I'm quite similar to my father in a lot of ways. There's also a history of mental illness and alcoholism in my family and I myself have had lots of problems with depression and anxiety and I'd be wary of passing them on. One of my older brothers is mentally and physically handicapped and I had to help out a lot as a child with taking care of him. It's a tough job and it's one I know I'm not able for.

Strangely, I have always had a very difficult relationship with my father, and it's the one thing that has inspired me to want to have kids of my own. I rarely agreed with my father on anything and we fought & argued a lot as father and son, particularly from my teens and onwards. He was a hard working man and I'd never hear a bad word said against him for that alone, but he is from that generation where problems don't get discussed, my male friends and even some of my female friends, they go for the occasional pints with their old man, some of my mates, it's a weekly institution, but I never had that and if I ever had kids, I'd have that time with them, especially in adulthood.

Professor Moriarty · 03-07-2017 10:29PM

Divelment wrote: »

Strangely, I have always had a very difficult relationship with my father, and it's the one thing that has inspired me to want to have kids of my own. I rarely agreed with my father on anything and we fought & argued a lot as father and son, particularly from my teens and onwards. He was a hard working man and I'd never hear a bad word said against him for that alone, but he is from that generation where problems don't get discussed, my male friends and even some of my female friends, they go for the occasional pints with their old man, some of my mates, it's a weekly institution, but I never had that and if I ever had kids, I'd have that time with them, especially in adulthood.

My mother used to say that some people will teach you how to be and some people will teach you how not to be.

Pawwed Rig · 04-07-2017 08:19AM

I would say having kids has made me happier than at any other point in my life. My first was at 38 and my second 40.

H3llR4iser · 04-07-2017 12:48PM

I can enjoy some time with my 5yo nephew as it's short and far in between - being 2000km apart; It's fascinating to see the shaping of a "blank mind" as he grows up, as more and more traits of my brother's character and influence show up in him.

Yet, I can only take it in shors bursts; Some people told me time and again that I'm apparently "good with children", but I wouldn't be able be around one 24/7/365 at any level; So, while not ruling it out absolutely because you don't know what's going to happen in the next 30 minutes, let alone 30 years, being a parent is not something I plan, yearn for or even wish.

Then there'd be the whole thing about putting someone new in a society where idiocy and ignorance are more and more the dominating traits, but I digress

Sleepy · 05-07-2017 02:28PM

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Then there'd be the whole thing about putting someone new in a society where idiocy and ignorance are more and more the dominating traits, but I digress

Idiocracy was right on the money with this: more intelligent people are breeding less and more slowly than the idiots.

We're at a point in human history where we're actively selecting for carelessness and fecklessness.

Galwayguy35 · 05-07-2017 07:12PM

I used to always think I'd do the whole settling down thing and having kids would be part of that.

But I'm 42 now and if I was to meet someone tomorrow it would be realistically be a few years before we would be talking of having kids and I just don't see it happening tbh.

Don't think I'd be a great dad anyway, kids screaming and running around the place annoy the hell out of me.

Galwayguy35 · 05-07-2017 07:18PM

MightyMandarin wrote: »

I'm young (21) and the thought of raising a child now frightens the hell out of me. That said, I'd love to have kids in the future and tbh most lads I know share the same intentions. I also find kids between 2-7 to be annoying af.

It's also never too late to have kids, for a man. It's a bit more awkward after 40 I guess, but my dad was 42 when I was born, and things worked out pretty grand imo, especially that he's quite young at heart and physically fit, even now at 64. Things actually seemed to work out really well, considering I'm graduating college next year and he's retiring at the same time, although he'll probably still work until my mam retires.

I have mates whose parents were very young when they were born aswell though, and while their dynamic also seems pretty cool (like going on nights out with them and stuff) I wouldn't say it's any better either.

Well I'd kinda disagree a bit on it never being too late for a man to have kids, my old man was 57 when I was born and he was the same age as my friends grandfathers.

He was a good man but kicking a ball around or any of that kind of stuff you see fathers going just didn't happen in our house.

andekwarhola · 05-07-2017 07:27PM

Patww79 wrote: »

I couldn't do that and I don't think it's right. Down at the 10 year olds sports day at nearly 50, that's near grandad age. Even maybe seeing your kid married and being in your 60's maybe close to 70. Doesn't sit right.

Actually, as somebody in my mid 40s with two kids of primary school age, quite a lot of the parents at the school seem to be roughly around my age.

All but two of my friends have kids and of all of them, only one had them while in their 20s.

I run 4 days a week and have no problem playing and keeping up with my kids. Perhaps I didn't receive the circular about being infirm by the age of 'nearly 50'.

Permabear · 05-07-2017 07:40PM

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andekwarhola · 05-07-2017 07:53PM

Plus I came second in the Dad's race at the school sports day.

So there.

fits · 05-07-2017 08:27PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I respectfully disagree with your last paragraph. It's lovely that for you having children has been a wonderful experience, especially in light of you once not being interested in having them. However we each engage with and are affected by life in different ways. What completes one person's human experience is different for another.

I actually agree with farmchoice. I was never broody or maternal. Then I was told I probably couldn't have children at the age of 36 and I was devastated. my twins came along against all odds ( naturally) and without doubt they are the best thing that has ever happened to me. I do feel my life would be lacking without knowing that love. But I never expected that in advance.

05-07-2017 08:59PM

fits wrote: »

I actually agree with farmchoice. I was never broody or maternal. Then I was told I probably couldn't have children at the age of 36 and I was devastated. my twins came along against all odds ( naturally) and without doubt they are the best thing that has ever happened to me. I do feel my life would be lacking without knowing that love. But I never expected that in advance.

For you that had been your experience and I'm glad for you. My point is that just because having children has been an incredible journey for some people it doesn't mean that those who are without them have a less fulfilling life. To assume such a thing displays an almost condescension for other ways of being.

If I got pregnant tomorrow and went on to have a baby then no doubt my life would be altered and hopefully the love I'd feel would be all consuming but it doesn't mean I have an upper hand on what's the most empowering way to live.

Permabear · 05-07-2017 09:48PM

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05-07-2017 10:29PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I took fits post to be in agreement with the other poster who believed that until you have children you don't realise how wonderful life can be. If I am wrong in that then I stand corrected. Like you say I have respect for other people's choices and would never assume one is better than the other.

Pawwed Rig · 06-07-2017 10:01AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I took fits post to be in agreement with the other poster who believed that until you have children you don't realise how wonderful life can be. If I am wrong in that then I stand corrected. Like you say I have respect for other people's choices and would never assume one is better than the other.

The only ones that can actually speak from authority on the matter are those with kids as they have known life without and known life with.
Has anyone been on yet to say that they have kids and hate it or resent that they do not have the lack of responsibility anymore?

What you think of other peoples kids or kids in general is actually irrelevant when you have your own. I have loads of nieces and nephews, some I like being around others not so much but it is incomparable to the overwhelming feeling you get with your own. Knowing that this person relies entirely on you. Of course it is scary but it is the normal part of life's journey.

Sleepy · 06-07-2017 10:12AM

Honestly, I see so many posts on boards.ie or in social media in general from predominantly middle class people choosing to live "child free" and women who believe they'll have no problems putting off having children until the latter half of their 30's / early 40's, I'm beginning to worry about the future.

The average age of first time parents posted by Permabear earlier are in their early 30's. Given that there are more teenagers / early twenties from the underclasses having unplanned kids (or kids planned to help the parent(s) "get a council house"), that means that in the middle class, those numbers are probably more towards the late 30's / early 40's.

I almost feel that productive members of society should be persuaded to feel duty-bound to procreate, or at the least incentivised in some manner that means they don't feel like they can't afford to do so (or do so to the extent that they mght otherwise). Making childcare tax deductable or increasing the tax credits available to a parent whose partner stays at home with the kids would be positive steps in this regard imo.

The parasitic class are outbreeding the productive to a large degree. Think of any of the families you know with 4 or more children: are they more likely to be dependent on the state or are they being supported by the labours of the parents? Are mothers in their late teens more likely to have come from a background where they'd be expected to go on to 3rd level education or where they're expected to sign on as soon as they leave school?

I'm speaking in terms of general trends btw. I'm well aware of many unemployed single parents or couples who've produced wonderful off-spring who make positive contributions to society. The fact remains however that the socio-economic background of one's parents remain the most likely indicator of success.

Current social policy incentivises the section of society that is least likely to have productive offspring to do so, while actively discouraging those most likely to raise productive offspring from reproducing at all. It seems like a recipe for disaster to me tbh. Especially in a country with a pension crisis looming.

eviltwin · 06-07-2017 12:24PM

My children are the best thing that happened to me too but, and this might appear paradoxical, if I found out I was pregnant tomorrow it would be a disaster and completely unwelcome. Kids are great for some but the very thing that drives some can be devastating for others.

Child free by choice is becoming more acceptable, I know more people choosing not to have kids than have them. At least they can be honest now.

Sleepy, I was a teenager when I had my first, I did okay. Good job, house at 25,.decent lifestyle. It's not impossible if the ambition and support is there.

Valmont · 06-07-2017 12:24PM

I'm 29 and my partner is 30. I want to have children asap but she wants to get a career locked down first (she's almost there). To be honest my main motivation is that I have strong feeling I'll regret not having kids if I don't!

06-07-2017 12:48PM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

The only ones that can actually speak from authority on the matter are those with kids as they have known life without and known life with.
Has anyone been on yet to say that they have kids and hate it or resent that they do not have the lack of responsibility anymore?

What you think of other peoples kids or kids in general is actually irrelevant when you have your own. I have loads of nieces and nephews, some I like being around others not so much but it is incomparable to the overwhelming feeling you get with your own. Knowing that this person relies entirely on you. Of course it is scary but it is the normal part of life's journey.

"the human experience is incomplete in a fundamental way if you dont ever have children and you dont understand it until you do it, being an involved aunt or uncle is no where near it"

The above is farmchoice's words and is what I took issue with. The huge assumption that life is missing something without children. In a previous post I wrote how I imagine I would experience huge love if I had a child but you know maybe I wouldn't. Maybe I would be full of resentment and bitterness, a bad parent, selfish, full of regret. I don't believe in one person's way of living trumping another. We all make choices in this life.

Pawwed Rig · 06-07-2017 01:01PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The huge assumption that life is missing something without children.

But it is. Our sole reason for existing is to pass our genes on to the next generation. The same is true for the whole animal kingdom.
Now you may decide that it is not for you and that is fine but you must realise that it is the fundamental experience in the human condition.

mzungu · 06-07-2017 01:06PM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

But it is. Our sole reason for existing is to pass our genes on to the next generation. The same is true for the whole animal kingdom.
Now you may decide that it is not for you and that is fine but you must realise that it is the fundamental experience in the human condition.

That is entirely subjective. Sure, the game only continues if we procreate, but it would be wrong to suggest that it the fundamental experience for the individual.

06-07-2017 01:08PM

Valmont wrote: »

I'm 29 and my partner is 30. I want to have children asap but she wants to get a career locked down first (she's almost there). To be honest my main motivation is that I have strong feeling I'll regret not having kids if I don't!

Ah I can relate to this. I'm 35 and my boyfriend is a good bit older than me. At a recent gynae appointment I was asked "why are you taking contraception, do you not want children"? "How would you feel if I was telling you that you couldn't have them".

Eh feck off. I'm struggling enough with this. I didn't come here for a lecture on time running out. I am well aware. The thing is I just can't have a child for that reason alone. I tend to flip flop a bit when I see babies and pregnant women. Sometimes I'm filled with a wistful wondering and other times absolute fear"

You and your girlfriend both have time Valmont. As hard as it may be try not to focus too much on what ifs. Life has a funny way of sorting itself out

Sleepy · 06-07-2017 01:25PM

eviltwin wrote: »

Sleepy, I was a teenager when I had my first, I did okay. Good job, house at 25,.decent lifestyle. It's not impossible if the ambition and support is there.

Fair play and as I was at pains to point out in my post, it's certainly not the case that all young parents, or all parents from socio-economically challenged areas that result in parasitic offspring.

It's simply the trend that, as a demographic, those from socio-eceonomically challenged backgrounds have children younger, have more children and are less likely to instill ambition or provide the support for that ambition in their children, leading to more generations of the same.

In fact, for the worst offenders in this regard, they're likely to have had two generations of offspring while the middle class offspring are still in further education!

Pawwed Rig · 06-07-2017 01:27PM

mzungu wrote: »

but it would be wrong to suggest that it the fundamental experience for the individual.

I didn't say that. I said 'but you must realise that it is the fundamental experience in the human condition'.

Professor Moriarty · 06-07-2017 02:01PM

mzungu wrote: »

That is entirely subjective. Sure, the game only continues if we procreate, but it would be wrong to suggest that it the fundamental experience for the individual.

The fundamental motivations governing human self-actualisation are pain avoidance, maintaining existence and procreation. All thought and behaviour stems from these motivations.

mzungu · 06-07-2017 02:20PM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I didn't say that. I said 'but you must realise that it is the fundamental experience in the human condition'.

Was that not related to your point (in the same post) where you outlined that if one did not have kids they were missing something from life? Like I said, I agree that procreation is important (who doesn't?), what I disagree with is that there is something missing if somebody decides not to partake in it. Who gets to decide if something is "missing"? Whilst there certainly is a biological urge to have sex, does this necessarily mean it is also an urge to have children? For some it is, and for some it is not.

You said above that "Our sole reason for existing is to pass our genes on to the next generation". I don't agree here, homosexuality exists in nature, and as a result there will not be any procreation there. Therefore I do not believe it is the sole reason of existence, because if it was then we would all be heterosexual and you probably wouldn't even come across many with a laissez-faire attitude towards passing on the genes.

To bring it back to my other point, we can't say somebody is missing out on life if they do not have children, because we can't even say with any certainty that having children is the point of existence for everybody. Ergo, I think we can safely say if nature has hardwired some not to procreate, then it is perfectly acceptable that they will not necessarily be missing out on anything.

Malari · 06-07-2017 02:28PM

mzungu wrote: »

You said above that "Our sole reason for existing is to pass our genes on to the next generation". I don't agree here, homosexuality exists in nature, and as a result there will not be any procreation there. Therefore I do not believe it is the sole reason of existence, because if it was then we would all be heterosexual and you probably wouldn't even come across many with a laissez-faire attitude towards passing on the genes.

Ergo, I think we can safely say if nature has hardwired some not to procreate, then it is perfectly acceptable that they will not necessarily be missing out on anything.

Procreation is not the only way of getting your genes into the next generation. As JBS Haldane said, "I would lay down my life for two brothers or 8 cousins!" And delayed or non-procreation is not uncommon in other social animals.

My husband is not paternal but I think I'm more non-maternal than he is non-paternal. He certainly doesn't mind the occasional presence of some of his friends' "nice" kids, where for me the presence of any child fills me with dread and distaste. :pac: I am not one of those "I love my nieces and nephews but it's great handing them back" people. I just don't have any interest in children whatsoever.

Are you paternal?

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