Are you paternal?

Divelment

This is more a question for the single guys without kids I suppose, but just wondering are any other guys out there particularly paternal? I don't have kids, single a good few years now, but I'd love to have kids and as time goes on, I find myself feeling more and more incomplete down to the fact that I don't have kids and it's unlikely at this stage that I will have any as I'm finding that relationships these days are rarer than hens teeth, even dates these days are rare enough.

Just thought I'd throw it out there for a discussion topic...

MightyMandarin

I'm young (21) and the thought of raising a child now frightens the hell out of me. That said, I'd love to have kids in the future and tbh most lads I know share the same intentions. I also find kids between 2-7 to be annoying af.

It's also never too late to have kids, for a man. It's a bit more awkward after 40 I guess, but my dad was 42 when I was born, and things worked out pretty grand imo, especially that he's quite young at heart and physically fit, even now at 64. Things actually seemed to work out really well, considering I'm graduating college next year and he's retiring at the same time, although he'll probably still work until my mam retires.

I have mates whose parents were very young when they were born aswell though, and while their dynamic also seems pretty cool (like going on nights out with them and stuff) I wouldn't say it's any better either.

Wibbs

Nope. Not paternal at all really. I can be around kids for short periods but not beyond that and babies freak me out TBH. I was ever thus.

5rtytry56

Wibbs wrote: »

Nope. Not paternal at all really. I can be around kids for short periods but not beyond that and babies freak me out TBH. I was ever thus.

Me as well, in a nutshell.

OldMrBrennan83

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Permabear

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Divelment

Permabear wrote: »

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That's such an incredible story and a journey in life, thanks so much for sharing that, it's powerful...

tomwaterford

Nope....taughts of it make my blood run cold



But the sisters have kids abroad and meeting up/having a laugh etc with them as their young is good fun,but still i couldnt see myself wanting that 24/7

Divelment

My own story is that I'm 40 and single, I've a big interest in genealogy, particularly my own family tree. This isn't the sum of it, as in this isn't the only reason or the main reason why I'm "broody" for a guy, but when you look at your family tree on a sheet of paper and you see your ancestors and their families, their circumstances, the hardships of the day, and I'm talking about 1916 Dublin tenement life here, you see your GG grandfather living in one room in a Dublin tenement with several children, and then you think of life as we know it today.

I suppose it could be argued that we are going back to those days and that way of life with the housing crisis, but it does make you wonder how you got to be here, because these other folks who never even met you, had kids and they had kids and those people are your ancestors, long dead and gone, but they are why you are here today.

My cousins and wider family are all having kids and it makes my heart melt to see it, I don't get sad about the fact that I don't have any, but it does always focus my mind on what could have been if things had played out differently for me in terms of relationships, etc.

irishman86

I wasnt until our little bully, I mean delight came along. I am with her, but I cant stand other peoples kids, my sisters kids are terrible always crying or fighting and the same with other kids I know.
So I avoid other peoples kids as they annoy me

Dial Hard

irishman86 wrote:

I wasnt until our little bully, I mean delight came along. I am with her, but I cant stand other peoples kids, my sisters kids are terrible always crying or fighting and the same with other kids I know. So I avoid other peoples kids as they annoy me

As my dad always said, kids are like farts, you can just about stand your own.

wijam

42 and no interest in having kids, which can perplex some family members and friends. Have plenty of nephews and nieces and some of them have started having kids.

Kids are grand in small doses, but would not be up for it 24/7.

Divelment

God I thought my view was the mainstream view, but it would seem that I'm the exception on here for my age in terms of wanting kids... I see my friends with kids and some of them seem just about able to cope with one kid, in terms of energy they seem nearly burnt out, of course I'm like, "sure I'd do that standing on my head!", but sure I would say that because I'm single and it's not a 24/7 baby minding operation for me...

Wibbs

Divelment wrote: »

God I thought my view was the mainstream view, but it would seem that I'm the exception on here for my age in terms of wanting kids...

Ah I dunno about the exception D. I'd say you're more "normal" than those of us who don't and never wanted them. It's far more natural to want to reproduce, to have children. That's a near given in any species. That's the organism's "job" as it were. The majority of my friends have kids and of the few who don't I'd strongly suspect and know in one case being childless is a sadness for them(and they'd be good dads too). I know I'm not normal in my resistance to the notion and I'm fine with that, at the same time I don't seek to deny mine is the eccentric view.

I used to think I'd maybe change my view as I got older, as most of the men in my family had children later in life. My dad was 50 when I came along, which wasn't so odd and a great uncle was in his 60's(contrary to the usual, the men live long and outlive the women in my family. We're a family of widowers). But nope, I never got the urge.

I suppose a huge part of that is finding the woman one would want to spend a life with and have children with. I might imagine if I'd found such a woman the natural order would have clicked in, but I never have. Of those I was in love with and loved, it never came up and they weren't keen on the kids thing - though I'd be willing to bet as their mid/late 30's now loom, they'll fall pregnant with whomever they're currently with. I do know a number of women that never wanted kids and stuck to that, but most I've known, just like most men, say they didn't at 22, but were all up for it at 35.

OldMrBrennan83

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Wibbs

Patww79 wrote: »

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Hardly. While it can start to be an issue for women(though my maternal grandmother had her last in her mid 40's and he's now a scarily fit 78 year old). With men it depends entirely on the man in question, his health, wealth and potential longevity. Case in point; my own experience with my father. He was 50 when I came out of the egg and I just didn't notice any difference between my Da and other Da's. Kid's don't, so long as there isn't an obvious difference(even then). Indeed at school sports days in the dad's events he won more medals than I did in the kid's. And he was a generation older than the majority of them. As I say it depends entirely on the individuals. Now it can get a bit weird if you're a member of the Rolling Stones still fathering kids in your dotage. But even there, said kids will likely have more exciting lives than the average.

OldMrBrennan83

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Deep Thought

We had my son when I was 45, hes 5 1/2 now..

It was a huge change of that there is no doubt, its 24/7,feeding, teaching listening and sometimes we are shattered, but we take turns to do things and we get by.

Last week picked him up from school at 3, we were in Tallaght Hospital by 7 , out of nowhere a virus and rash all over him, all sorted and Tallaght are great.

Its not easy,and I have had to change my lifestyle and get healthier to be able to keep up with him

At the end of it all, when he makes a Fathers day card, or brings you a Valentine's card and he is so proud that he made it for you, and end of the day, telling bedtime stories and get a hug.

For me thats what its all about...

PS - We all thinks other people's kids are terrible - but then some are !

Professor Moriarty

Patww79 wrote: »

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Doesn't sit right with you. That's your prejudice. Each to his own. If someone is wants to be a father at whatever age, then that's their business. Best of luck to them.

Permabear

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OldMrBrennan83

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Professor Moriarty

Patww79 wrote: »

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Fair enough. It's a huge decision but not one that you have to stick by. Unless you go and have a kid, of course.

Keepgrowing

Patww79 wrote: »

I couldn't do that and I don't think it's right. Down at the 10 year olds sports day at nearly 50, that's near grandad age. Even maybe seeing your kid married and being in your 60's maybe close to 70. Doesn't sit right.

I'm 50 in October 4 kids. 12yo 11yo and twins 8. I think it's great at kids sports days with all the lovely younger mommies.

In all seriousness I don't find it in any way odd. I attend all their sports etc. eldest is away to secondary school in Sept, I really wish I could press the pause button now and keep them at this age but alas must allow them blossom.

Permabear

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Wibbs

Patww79 wrote: »

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Yet competing with(and often beating) the other dads who were 30 odd. As I say I never noticed, nor did my peers. And kids can be right bastards if they sniff any difference.

And again it depends on the "grandad" in question. People age at different rates and not just physically. I would say mental ageing is even more important, if not vital. I grew up with men who were "oul lads" five years out of schooling(and that mental age setting reflected in the physical soon enough). All slippers and sweaters and suburban soporific. I have generally found that men age better physically than women, but age less well mentally. Their minds have a tendency to become less plastic with age. They find "their place" mentally and then shut down to new angles and experiences. Drop in testosterone maybe?

My maternal grandfather got into "heavy metal" as he endearingly insisted on calling it in his late 70's. By mistake. He had ordered some sh1te middle of the road album whose author escapes that went by the title of "Daybreak", but instead got Thin Lizzy's "Jailbreak" in error. Thought feck it, I'll give it a spin and loved it. It is quite odd for a teenager in the early 1980's to find one's grandfather upstairs in Freebird records, as it was at the bottom of Grafton street, thumbing through the latest album releases from "Rock acts". Even odder were the ever present punks with sugared Mohawks namechecking him and he them. Through them he became a fan of the New York Dolls and informed me on that score.

Even maybe seeing your kid married and being in your 60's maybe close to 70.

It would be my take that one can "live too long" as a parent. Far better, IMHO of course, to raise the next generation and then get the hell outa their way and hopefully not end up being a burden to them towards the end. Indeed extremely successful men are more likely to have lost a father in their youth. It kickstarts their own journey early. Though that comes with the bad as well as the good of course.

Doesn't sit right.

And that's cool too P.

Wibbs

Permabear wrote: »

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My own dad and other older dads in the family noted a more practical aspect to it. Sleep. Or lack thereof. They/we needed far less sleep at 40+ than we did at 20+. With newborns this was a bonus. From my own personal experience I know I can get by on snatched hours or two of sleep as I breath down the barrel of fifty, than I ever could at twenty, or thirty. Now that's just me and mine, your mileage may vary of course.

HalloweenJack

I used to madly want to have kids as a teenager and in my early twenties. I especially remember having a time where I thought that my life would be incomplete if I never had children. I´ve been with my girlfriend for four and a half years and we've also talked a lot about having kids.

However, in the last year, we've both changed our minds and we're now both firmly in the "no kids" camp. There's a few reasons for it. I work with a lot of kids and they wear me down, just by being kids. My GF has had similar experiences. We're also both working on building our careers at the moment and kids right now would harm that. We also enjoy the freedom of not having to be constantly thinking of a someone else. We're both pretty selfish in that regard.

Another influencing factor for me is my own family history. I'm from a single-parent family and I have no relationship whatsoever with my father. I never had a proper father which has led to think I don't know how to be a father or that I'd be like my father and give up when it gets too tough, as I'm quite similar to my father in a lot of ways. There's also a history of mental illness and alcoholism in my family and I myself have had lots of problems with depression and anxiety and I'd be wary of passing them on. One of my older brothers is mentally and physically handicapped and I had to help out a lot as a child with taking care of him. It's a tough job and it's one I know I'm not able for.

So, there's a bundle of reasons why I don't want to have kids right now. I'm not saying it won't change but I'd be perfectly happy to not have kids any time soon or for the rest of my life.

irishman86

Patww79 wrote: »

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No it isnt

irishman86

Patww79 wrote: »

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Surely thats the age most people are when the kids get married. My aul lad is 65 and Im 30, my siblings which are younger are no where near getting married

OldMrBrennan83

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Sleepy

I always wanted kids tbh. I ended up having them sooner than I'd intended (and certainly before I was really financially stable enough to do so but we've managed) but kids were always part of the plan for me. It's a running joke in our family and circle of friends that I'm quicker to take up a baby in my arms than Mrs Sleepy (who insists I'm "the baby whisperer" because I have a knack of calming fussy babies - once they've been fed at least). So, when a member of our circle has a new baby, I'll be the one asked if I "want a cuddle" before my other half.

It's funny as I'm quite introverted by nature. It may be something to do with me being quite tactile and perhaps better able to communicate physically than verbally but the older kids get (and the more their level of conversation approaches that of an adult) the harder I find it to bond with them.

farmchoice

i dont think i ever really wanted children, i was/am a naturally lazy person so all the work didn't appeal to me, i was the eldest of 6 myself so babies held no mystery for me i was all too aware of the realities of it.
the wife wanted them though and i went with the flow, sure its what you do.

so now i have 3 (had four we lost one little lad when he was a couple of weeks old).
after the first one i could have left it at that and after the second one i really didn't want a third. eventually after 3 i stood up for myself and said no more, even though herself wants a 4th.
I'm pretty sure she is planning to trick me into it (i think she is planning to have her coil taken out on the Q.T.).

being a parent is the hardest thing in the wold it completely consumes your life in every way and its forever and the repercussions of doing it wrong or making mistake can be extremely serious for all concerned.

its also without a doubt the greatest thing in the human experience nothing else comes close, nothing, love, sex, heroin, cocaine winning the world cup, noting is even close
'
and I'm not talking about the birth or the first words I'm talking about every day in every way. the love you feel for your children and theirs for you is so all encompassing and unconditional in every way as to all most being a force.

i would happily die for my children and i would kill anyone who tried to do harm to them. i mean that, i have never been in a fight in my life but i would pull out your throat with my teeth if i thought i had to to stop you hurting one of my children.

the human experience is incomplete in a fundamental way if you dont ever have children and you dont understand it until you do it, being an involved aunt or uncle is no where near it.

yourdeadwright

I never really thought about it much until the OH brought it up in January , Just something we never really focused on but now we are expecting our first with a due date of new years day and I can't wait

farmchoice

farmchoice wrote: »

its also without a doubt the greatest thing in the human experience nothing else comes close, nothing, love, sex, heroin, cocaine winning the world cup, noting is even close
'
and I'm not talking about the birth or the first words I'm talking about every day in every way. the love you fell for your children and theirs for you is so all encompassing and unconditional in every way as to all most being a force.

i would happily die for my children and i wouyld kill anyone who tried to do harm to them. i mean that, i have never been in a fight in my life but i would pull out your throat with my teeth if i though i had to to stop you hurting one of my children.

the human experience is incomplete in a fundamental way if you dont ever have children and you dont understand it until you do it, being an involved aunt or uncle is no where near it.

I respectfully disagree with your last paragraph. It's lovely that for you having children has been a wonderful experience, especially in light of you once not being interested in having them. However we each engage with and are affected by life in different ways. What completes one person's human experience is different for another.

Divelment

HalloweenJack wrote: »

Another influencing factor for me is my own family history. I'm from a single-parent family and I have no relationship whatsoever with my father. I never had a proper father which has led to think I don't know how to be a father or that I'd be like my father and give up when it gets too tough, as I'm quite similar to my father in a lot of ways. There's also a history of mental illness and alcoholism in my family and I myself have had lots of problems with depression and anxiety and I'd be wary of passing them on. One of my older brothers is mentally and physically handicapped and I had to help out a lot as a child with taking care of him. It's a tough job and it's one I know I'm not able for.

Strangely, I have always had a very difficult relationship with my father, and it's the one thing that has inspired me to want to have kids of my own. I rarely agreed with my father on anything and we fought & argued a lot as father and son, particularly from my teens and onwards. He was a hard working man and I'd never hear a bad word said against him for that alone, but he is from that generation where problems don't get discussed, my male friends and even some of my female friends, they go for the occasional pints with their old man, some of my mates, it's a weekly institution, but I never had that and if I ever had kids, I'd have that time with them, especially in adulthood.

Professor Moriarty

Divelment wrote: »

Strangely, I have always had a very difficult relationship with my father, and it's the one thing that has inspired me to want to have kids of my own. I rarely agreed with my father on anything and we fought & argued a lot as father and son, particularly from my teens and onwards. He was a hard working man and I'd never hear a bad word said against him for that alone, but he is from that generation where problems don't get discussed, my male friends and even some of my female friends, they go for the occasional pints with their old man, some of my mates, it's a weekly institution, but I never had that and if I ever had kids, I'd have that time with them, especially in adulthood.

My mother used to say that some people will teach you how to be and some people will teach you how not to be.

Pawwed Rig

I would say having kids has made me happier than at any other point in my life. My first was at 38 and my second 40.

H3llR4iser

I can enjoy some time with my 5yo nephew as it's short and far in between - being 2000km apart; It's fascinating to see the shaping of a "blank mind" as he grows up, as more and more traits of my brother's character and influence show up in him.

Yet, I can only take it in shors bursts; Some people told me time and again that I'm apparently "good with children", but I wouldn't be able be around one 24/7/365 at any level; So, while not ruling it out absolutely because you don't know what's going to happen in the next 30 minutes, let alone 30 years, being a parent is not something I plan, yearn for or even wish.

Then there'd be the whole thing about putting someone new in a society where idiocy and ignorance are more and more the dominating traits, but I digress

Sleepy

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Then there'd be the whole thing about putting someone new in a society where idiocy and ignorance are more and more the dominating traits, but I digress

Idiocracy was right on the money with this: more intelligent people are breeding less and more slowly than the idiots.

We're at a point in human history where we're actively selecting for carelessness and fecklessness.

Galwayguy35

I used to always think I'd do the whole settling down thing and having kids would be part of that.

But I'm 42 now and if I was to meet someone tomorrow it would be realistically be a few years before we would be talking of having kids and I just don't see it happening tbh.

Don't think I'd be a great dad anyway, kids screaming and running around the place annoy the hell out of me.

Galwayguy35

MightyMandarin wrote: »

I'm young (21) and the thought of raising a child now frightens the hell out of me. That said, I'd love to have kids in the future and tbh most lads I know share the same intentions. I also find kids between 2-7 to be annoying af.

It's also never too late to have kids, for a man. It's a bit more awkward after 40 I guess, but my dad was 42 when I was born, and things worked out pretty grand imo, especially that he's quite young at heart and physically fit, even now at 64. Things actually seemed to work out really well, considering I'm graduating college next year and he's retiring at the same time, although he'll probably still work until my mam retires.

I have mates whose parents were very young when they were born aswell though, and while their dynamic also seems pretty cool (like going on nights out with them and stuff) I wouldn't say it's any better either.

Well I'd kinda disagree a bit on it never being too late for a man to have kids, my old man was 57 when I was born and he was the same age as my friends grandfathers.

He was a good man but kicking a ball around or any of that kind of stuff you see fathers going just didn't happen in our house.

andekwarhola

Patww79 wrote: »

I couldn't do that and I don't think it's right. Down at the 10 year olds sports day at nearly 50, that's near grandad age. Even maybe seeing your kid married and being in your 60's maybe close to 70. Doesn't sit right.

Actually, as somebody in my mid 40s with two kids of primary school age, quite a lot of the parents at the school seem to be roughly around my age.

All but two of my friends have kids and of all of them, only one had them while in their 20s.

I run 4 days a week and have no problem playing and keeping up with my kids. Perhaps I didn't receive the circular about being infirm by the age of 'nearly 50'.

Permabear

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andekwarhola

Plus I came second in the Dad's race at the school sports day.

So there.

fits

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I respectfully disagree with your last paragraph. It's lovely that for you having children has been a wonderful experience, especially in light of you once not being interested in having them. However we each engage with and are affected by life in different ways. What completes one person's human experience is different for another.

I actually agree with farmchoice. I was never broody or maternal. Then I was told I probably couldn't have children at the age of 36 and I was devastated. my twins came along against all odds ( naturally) and without doubt they are the best thing that has ever happened to me. I do feel my life would be lacking without knowing that love. But I never expected that in advance.

fits

fits wrote: »

I actually agree with farmchoice. I was never broody or maternal. Then I was told I probably couldn't have children at the age of 36 and I was devastated. my twins came along against all odds ( naturally) and without doubt they are the best thing that has ever happened to me. I do feel my life would be lacking without knowing that love. But I never expected that in advance.

For you that had been your experience and I'm glad for you. My point is that just because having children has been an incredible journey for some people it doesn't mean that those who are without them have a less fulfilling life. To assume such a thing displays an almost condescension for other ways of being.

If I got pregnant tomorrow and went on to have a baby then no doubt my life would be altered and hopefully the love I'd feel would be all consuming but it doesn't mean I have an upper hand on what's the most empowering way to live.

Permabear

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Permabear

Permabear wrote: »

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I took fits post to be in agreement with the other poster who believed that until you have children you don't realise how wonderful life can be. If I am wrong in that then I stand corrected. Like you say I have respect for other people's choices and would never assume one is better than the other.

Pawwed Rig

Deleted User wrote: »

I took fits post to be in agreement with the other poster who believed that until you have children you don't realise how wonderful life can be. If I am wrong in that then I stand corrected. Like you say I have respect for other people's choices and would never assume one is better than the other.

The only ones that can actually speak from authority on the matter are those with kids as they have known life without and known life with.
Has anyone been on yet to say that they have kids and hate it or resent that they do not have the lack of responsibility anymore?

What you think of other peoples kids or kids in general is actually irrelevant when you have your own. I have loads of nieces and nephews, some I like being around others not so much but it is incomparable to the overwhelming feeling you get with your own. Knowing that this person relies entirely on you. Of course it is scary but it is the normal part of life's journey.

Sleepy

Honestly, I see so many posts on boards.ie or in social media in general from predominantly middle class people choosing to live "child free" and women who believe they'll have no problems putting off having children until the latter half of their 30's / early 40's, I'm beginning to worry about the future.

The average age of first time parents posted by Permabear earlier are in their early 30's. Given that there are more teenagers / early twenties from the underclasses having unplanned kids (or kids planned to help the parent(s) "get a council house"), that means that in the middle class, those numbers are probably more towards the late 30's / early 40's.

I almost feel that productive members of society should be persuaded to feel duty-bound to procreate, or at the least incentivised in some manner that means they don't feel like they can't afford to do so (or do so to the extent that they mght otherwise). Making childcare tax deductable or increasing the tax credits available to a parent whose partner stays at home with the kids would be positive steps in this regard imo.

The parasitic class are outbreeding the productive to a large degree. Think of any of the families you know with 4 or more children: are they more likely to be dependent on the state or are they being supported by the labours of the parents? Are mothers in their late teens more likely to have come from a background where they'd be expected to go on to 3rd level education or where they're expected to sign on as soon as they leave school?

I'm speaking in terms of general trends btw. I'm well aware of many unemployed single parents or couples who've produced wonderful off-spring who make positive contributions to society. The fact remains however that the socio-economic background of one's parents remain the most likely indicator of success.

Current social policy incentivises the section of society that is least likely to have productive offspring to do so, while actively discouraging those most likely to raise productive offspring from reproducing at all. It seems like a recipe for disaster to me tbh. Especially in a country with a pension crisis looming.

eviltwin

My children are the best thing that happened to me too but, and this might appear paradoxical, if I found out I was pregnant tomorrow it would be a disaster and completely unwelcome. Kids are great for some but the very thing that drives some can be devastating for others.

Child free by choice is becoming more acceptable, I know more people choosing not to have kids than have them. At least they can be honest now.

Sleepy, I was a teenager when I had my first, I did okay. Good job, house at 25,.decent lifestyle. It's not impossible if the ambition and support is there.