Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

CMOTDibbler · 03-07-2017 11:05PM

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Former Former · 03-07-2017 11:10PM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Is Goodhue in the squad?

Have to say, I've never been that enamoured with Cruden. He's good but I don't get excited by the prospect of him coming on. I'd like to see McKenzie or Sopoaga on the bench covering 10.

If they're going to drop Barrett (lock) I'd prefer Fafita to Romano.

I'd love to see Julian Savea given a shot.

Cruden's cameo on Saturday won't have helped.

With 90 seconds on the clock, trailing by 3 points and in possession in your opponent's half, a cross field kick was utter madness.

bilston · 04-07-2017 12:42AM

Is Mako Vunipola usually so ill disciplined?

This seems the only potential change for Saturday, however given the nature of the Lions and the fact it is a one off test series decider I think dropping players to make a point is a pretty fruitless exercise. You just pick the team that you feel is most likely to win and that's the bottom line. If they still think Mako is he best man for the job they should pick him.

McGrath put in a great defensive shift on Saturday but one of the first things he did with ball in hand was give away a penalty for crossing with SOB and from memory the Lions were well set if he had given the pass to Sexton out the back. Still it's a totally different type of penalty to Vunipola's and more forgiveable.

I'd probably edge towards McGrath myself, but it's close. I don't see any other changes at all.

bilston · 04-07-2017 12:44AM

Former Former wrote: »

Cruden's cameo on Saturday won't have helped.

With 90 seconds on the clock, trailing by 3 points and in possession in your opponent's half, a cross field kick was utter madness.

The only explanation is that he decided they were never going to breakdown the Lions defence with 14 players, but of course they really just needed a penalty to get the draw. If they had held onto the ball they may have got one eventually. I was delighted to see him try the kick pass. It may have been a different outcome if it had been Barrett doing the kicking.

Buer · 04-07-2017 09:09AM

bilston wrote: »

Is Mako Vunipola usually so ill disciplined?

He has improved significantly in that regard but I don't think Gatland will be so forgiving. He conceded 4 penalties in the 2nd test in 2013 and was dropped for the final test. This was almost as costly but twice as stupid (last time it was down to being destroyed in the scrum).

I don't think he had conceded a penalty on the entire tour before Saturday which could work in his favour. Graham Rowntree was at pains to explain away the penalty culprits after the game saying there's no pattern of offenders and it's something that needs to be looked at overall.

It will definitely be looked at closely when it comes to the selection meeting. They've spoken about potentially freshening up the team a little and admitted they cut the workload ahead of the second test as they were concerned about fatigue. That's something that may come into play. McGrath has only started 1 game on the entire tour which has flown under the radar a little. He will be absolutely raring to go and will have no shortage of energy.

04-07-2017 09:14AM

Didn't realise McGrath only had one start, must be the fewest of anyone on tour who has remained fit throughout.

irishbucsfan · 04-07-2017 09:14AM

bilston wrote: »

The only explanation is that he decided they were never going to breakdown the Lions defence with 14 players, but of course they really just needed a penalty to get the draw. If they had held onto the ball they may have got one eventually. I was delighted to see him try the kick pass. It may have been a different outcome if it had been Barrett doing the kicking.

Not only were they not breaking down the Lions defense, they were being pushed backwards. Teams going backwards in possession are much more likely to concede possession through penalties or errors. At any other point in the game a kick like that would be a good decision, but I'd be fairly sure they must have had something else in the bag they could have used.

Buer · 04-07-2017 09:16AM

bilston wrote: »

The only explanation is that he decided they were never going to breakdown the Lions defence with 14 players, but of course they really just needed a penalty to get the draw. If they had held onto the ball they may have got one eventually. I was delighted to see him try the kick pass. It may have been a different outcome if it had been Barrett doing the kicking.

I wouldn't be hard on Cruden at all for that. It was the closing minutes and the Lions had all the momentum. They had gone through multiple phases on the halfway minutes beforehand and ended up losing ground before eventually spilling the ball.

I don't think there was going to be another way to get around the Lions defence. The lads who had come on in the front 5 were absolutely smashing into carriers and drving them back. Ball was slow and the defence was easily cutting down the time and space when the ball went to the back line.

Former Former · 04-07-2017 09:22AM

bilston wrote: »

The only explanation is that he decided they were never going to breakdown the Lions defence with 14 players, but of course they really just needed a penalty to get the draw. If they had held onto the ball they may have got one eventually. I was delighted to see him try the kick pass. It may have been a different outcome if it had been Barrett doing the kicking.

You have to keep the ball in that sort of situation. You hold on, you go through the phases and you hope either for a gap to open up or the Lions to concede a penalty - in which case you can either take the draw or stick it into the corner and go for a 5-metre drive.

The cross-kick must be the lowest percentage return of any option, and it was poorly executed into the bargain.

04-07-2017 09:26AM

Former Former wrote: »

You have to keep the ball in that sort of situation. You hold on, you go through the phases and you hope either for a gap to open up or the Lions to concede a penalty - in which case you can either take the draw or stick it into the corner and go for a 5-metre drive.

The cross-kick must be the lowest percentage return of any option, and it was poorly executed into the bargain.

Yup. Don't get the kick back, game over. Under no circumstances do you kick in that situation. Very strange choice.

.ak · 04-07-2017 09:26AM

Great video showing Warburton's contributions on Saturday. I'm not his biggest fan but I thought he had a smashing game, he's so clever at getting involved with players around the ruck, disrupting, he really nullified the ABs quick ball almost singlehandedly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqCbGk12-K4

04-07-2017 09:30AM

.ak wrote: »

Great video showing Warburton's contributions on Saturday. I'm not his biggest fan but I thought he had a smashing game, he's so clever at getting involved with players around the ruck, disrupting, he really nullified the ABs quick ball almost singlehandedly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqCbGk12-K4

Must be great to watch from a Lion's perspective. Interfering with players beyond the ball, entering rucks from the side etc etc. Could be an All Black :pac:

irishbucsfan · 04-07-2017 09:30AM

Basil3 wrote: »

Yup. Don't get the kick back, game over. Under no circumstances do you kick in that situation. Very strange choice.

Well I think this is kind've what you meant but I'd actually say under every other circumstance you kick in that situation! The only one you don't is when you need to retain possession.

Buer: I'm not entirely convinced they exhausted their options out wide. Surely they must have had some low-percentage stuff they could have tried with ball in hand, either a deeper wider play or some switch stuff to release someone on the blindside. Maybe though there was a lot of fatigue for 14 guys at that stage of the game that limited his options.

ScrubsfanChris · 04-07-2017 09:55AM

Sorry if already posted...

:pac:

.ak · 04-07-2017 01:23PM

Basil3 wrote: »

Must be great to watch from a Lion's perspective. Interfering with players beyond the ball, entering rucks from the side etc etc. Could be an All Black :pac:

McCawesque.

CMOTDibbler · 04-07-2017 02:35PM

Basil3 wrote: »

Must be great to watch from a Lion's perspective. Interfering with players beyond the ball, entering rucks from the side etc etc. Could be an All Black :pac:

High praise indeed.

His most important contribution for me, is his ability to react quickly to the ref's instructions. Less canny players would get caught and blown up.

swiwi_ · 04-07-2017 05:29PM

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/quiz-10-pre-third-test-posers/

9 out of 10.

Just like Barrett off the tee once in a blue moon.

Luckily there were no mindless Qs relating to Stephen Jones and the 6N, else I would have been bored senseless.

degsie · 04-07-2017 05:51PM

some good insights...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNrrs-7L6eI

stephen_n · 04-07-2017 06:32PM

swiwi_ wrote: »

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/quiz-10-pre-third-test-posers/

9 out of 10.

Just like Barrett off the tee once in a blue moon.

Luckily there were no mindless Qs relating to Stephen Jones and the 6N, else I would have been bored senseless.

You must be very bored.

pickarooney · 04-07-2017 07:07PM

Only 7 but my finger slipped on Haskell.

Ardillaun · 04-07-2017 08:01PM

Dagg didn't look great in the Lions vs Crusaders match either. Two of his three Lions matches have been below what one would expect.

Squidgy Black · 05-07-2017 08:06AM

Jared Payne's tour is over due to migraines. Not that he'd have been featuring on Saturday anyways.

Erik Shin · 05-07-2017 08:15AM

_Tyrrell_ wrote: »

Jared Payne's tour is over due to migraines. Not that he'd have been featuring on Saturday anyways.

A bit worrying, as someone who suffers from them you can get them for 2 maybe even 3 days at a time...but to have them continuing over a 4 or 5 week period is worrying.

Buer · 05-07-2017 08:26AM

Erik Shin wrote: »

A bit worrying, as someone who suffers from them you can get them for 2 maybe even 3 days at a time...but to have them continuing over a 4 or 5 week period is worrying.

Has he not only had them since pulling out ahead of the Hurricanes game about 9 or 10 days ago?

swiwi_ · 05-07-2017 10:44AM

Word on the street is that NZ is going a bit "Baby Blacks" in the backline, ie Jodie Barrett, Laumape etc. I'll give Hansen credit, he doesn't die wondering. It will either be a masterstroke, or else a disaster as the lack of experience turns players into possums in the headlights. I still have nightmares about Toeva in 2007, frozen as if he had been down-troued in front of his class.

I suppose they back the men they select, rather than opting for Fekitoa etc. There are few other international coaches I could imagine being so brave (foolhardy?) on the selection front.

(team not actually annouced yet...)

05-07-2017 11:20AM

swiwi_ wrote: »

Word on the street is that NZ is going a bit "Baby Blacks" in the backline, ie Jodie Barrett, Laumape etc. I'll give Hansen credit, he doesn't die wondering. It will either be a masterstroke, or else a disaster as the lack of experience turns players into possums in the headlights. I still have nightmares about Toeva in 2007, frozen as if he had been down-troued in front of his class.

I suppose they back the men they select, rather than opting for Fekitoa etc. There are few other international coaches I could imagine being so brave (foolhardy?) on the selection front.

(team not actually annouced yet...)

There's nothing quite like a good down-trou

Buer · 05-07-2017 11:24AM

I've seen it in a couple of publications now that JB is set to get the nod at 15 with Dagg moving back out wide. Who will get the left wing spot, though? Naholo looking decidedly ropey now despite Hansen's initial assessment.

That would also mean that Jordie B assumes goal kicking duties, I expect.

For the Lions, it appears that McGrath is the only potential change although Liam Williams is struggling this week with a tight hamstring too. Could be a straight swap for Nowell or would they consider Halfpenny? I'd be happy to see Nowell coming into the team given he'd suit the open running back three that have gone well in the first two tests so far.

With all that said, we've seen a couple of curve balls in the first two test selections thus far that we weren't expecting. I wouldn't be surprised to see something a little unexpected for the bench such as Henderson or Tipuric to come in.

Buer · 05-07-2017 11:25AM

Basil3 wrote: »

There's nothing quite like a good down-trou

You can always spot the private schoolers.

swiwi_ · 05-07-2017 11:55AM

@Buer.

The Bus.

stephen_n · 05-07-2017 01:02PM

If 1/2p does come in, it will be interesting to see who kicks.

Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

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