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Dairy chit chat II

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  • #3062
    Water John
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,260 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Whole new meaning to, from farm to fork.


  • #3063
    GrasstoMilk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,482 ✭✭✭GrasstoMilk


    Just leaving Moorepark and heading for grub. Great event and lots to to think about.
    What's yer main observations?
    Simple system was the biggest thing for me. Over complicating things eats into your time aswell as having a good setup one


  • #3064
    stanflt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭stanflt


    GrasstoMilk wrote: »
    Just leaving Moorepark and heading for grub. Great event and lots to to think about.
    What's yer main observations?
    Simple system was the biggest thing for me. Over complicating things eats into your time aswell as having a good setup one

    Simples
    Clover
    Spray


  • #3065
    darragh_haven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭darragh_haven


    GrasstoMilk wrote: »
    Just leaving Moorepark and heading for grub. Great event and lots to to think about.
    What's yer main observations?
    Simple system was the biggest thing for me. Over complicating things eats into your time aswell as having a good setup one

    For me, it was to forget about dairying. And lease it to a dairy farmer when my dad is good and ready to retire.
    Continue with beef, grass only while managing clover, and keep my day job.


  • #3066
    Mooooo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,577 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    stanflt wrote: »
    Simples
    Clover
    Spray

    Spray clover? 😄 Wasn't there but have seen some of the videos on fb, seemed a good day. Not quite convinced on clover here, not for wet ground anyway.
    May try a section I'll be reseeding in the next month or two


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  • #3067
    stanflt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭stanflt


    darragh_haven wrote: »
    For me, it was to forget about dairying. And lease it to a dairy farmer when my dad is good and ready to retire.
    Continue with beef, grass only while managing clover, and keep my day job.


    Jaysus who were you talking to????
    He's full of sh****


  • #3068
    Mooooo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,577 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    Anyone go to the roadways? how are costs looking currently when buying in material ?


  • #3069
    GrasstoMilk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,482 ✭✭✭GrasstoMilk


    Mooooo wrote: »
    Anyone go to the roadways? how are costs looking currently when buying in material ?

    https://www.facebook.com/Teagasc/videos/1432715123473984/


  • #3070
    darragh_haven
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭darragh_haven


    stanflt wrote: »
    Jaysus who were you talking to????
    He's full of sh****

    I'm easily led by ramdomers in the crowd.


  • #3071
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    Mooooo wrote: »
    Anyone go to the roadways? how are costs looking currently when buying in material ?
    GrasstoMilk wrote: »
    https://www.facebook.com/Teagasc/videos/1432715123473984/
    From 10 to 30 euro a meter depending on width (3m v 4m) and digging out v laying on the surface.

    Dearer 20 euro for 4m dug out and the 10 euro was for a 3m laid on top.


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  • #3072
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    GrasstoMilk wrote: »
    Just leaving Moorepark and heading for grub. Great event and lots to to think about.
    What's yer main observations?
    Simple system was the biggest thing for me. Over complicating things eats into your time aswell as having a good setup one
    For me, the putting in stone on the bottom of the drain before putting in the drain to prevent build up of silt in the pipe was the interesting point today.

    And a the roadways were interesting too.


  • #3073
    stanflt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭stanflt


    Buford T. Justice V wrote: »
    For me, the putting in stone on the bottom of the drain before putting in the drain to prevent build up of silt in the pipe was the interesting point today.

    And a the roadways were interesting too.

    It's been done like that for 30 yrs around meath by a man called mickey rock


  • #3074
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    stanflt wrote: »
    It's been done like that for 30 yrs around meath by a man called mickey rock
    Digger coming in Thursday so was interested to see it. Never seen it done round here before and I can see the digger driver giving out about it but it looks like a simple solution, probably too simple to see, tbh.


  • #3075
    stanflt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭stanflt


    Buford T. Justice V wrote: »
    Digger coming in Thursday so was interested to see it. Never seen it done round here before and I can see the digger driver giving out about it but it looks like a simple solution, probably too simple to see, tbh.

    Hope he has a stone cart


  • #3076
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    stanflt wrote: »
    Hope he has a stone cart
    He has, I'm getting too old to be using a bucket:D


  • #3077
    yewtree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 811 ✭✭✭yewtree


    Good day in moorepark, got a lot out of water and roads section.
    Its some resource to be able to get all the info without any commerical angle. A lot of english farmers there aswell supose they have nothing comparable


  • #3078
    kowtow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭kowtow


    yewtree wrote: »
    Good day in moorepark, got a lot out of water and roads section.
    Its some resource to be able to get all the info without any commerical angle. A lot of english farmers there aswell supose they have nothing comparable

    That's the second time I've been to Moorepark - and I'm amazed by the operation and the way the message is delivered, the organisation, and - in fact - the great friendly atmosphere of the whole day. It would be impossible to come away without thinking that the Irish dairy industry was in great spirits.

    I may or may not be alone in wondering whether we have reached "peak statistics" in the way some of the individual message boards come across. It seems to me that increasingly one indicator is being multiplied by another indicator and then multiplied by an average farm Euro profit figure in order to come up with a big Euro sign. Typically the underlying farming lesson or point is a good and productive one - and carefully researched - but in some cases there seem to be so many definitions - of stocking rate, or profit, or COP for example (platform / farm, labour or not, land charge etc.) that the message itself can be muddied by the same figures which are intended to ram it home.

    The example which sticks out in my mind was the "don't push stocking rate" board - no land charge on the "home farm" but payment for all silage or concentrate brought in. It was - so I understood - OK if the farm was split into two as long as the out-farm had no land charge either - so in fact we were looking at a very comprehensive statistical comparison of the margins available on owned and paid for land versus bought in feed. I would have thought the more relevant question for most people was milking platform stocking vs out-farm and the cost differential for carrying feed between the two, or indeed the effect on utilisation of raising the stocking rate on the MP so much that no silage is cut. Maybe I'm wrong and I notice there were other optimal SR boards there.

    I thought Creed came across very business like and jargon-free in the Brexit debate. It's disappointing though that the Teagasc guy again misquoted his own report (I think) in saying that nearly half the herds had 100 cows (the report says nearly half the cows are in 100+ herds. I think a quarter of herds have 100 cows).

    And that herd size is important because he also repeated the part truth about us being "one of the most competitive producers in the world" - which as often discussed here is only on the basis of nil labour costs. With labour costs, at least in herds of less than 100 cows, we are among the least competitive.


    I'm pleased that we've started talking about resilience rather than sustainability, but I think it's more important than ever that we have our eyes wide open to the precise extent that inherited land and family labour create that resilience, especially if Teagasc think (mistakenly) that half of us are milking a hundred or more cows already.


  • #3079
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    kowtow wrote: »
    That's the second time I've been to Moorepark - and I'm amazed by the operation and the way the message is delivered, the organisation, and - in fact - the great friendly atmosphere of the whole day. It would be impossible to come away without thinking that the Irish dairy industry was in great spirits.

    I may or may not be alone in wondering whether we have reached "peak statistics" in the way some of the individual message boards come across. It seems to me that increasingly one indicator is being multiplied by another indicator and then multiplied by an average farm Euro profit figure in order to come up with a big Euro sign. Typically the underlying farming lesson or point is a good and productive one - and carefully researched - but in some cases there seem to be so many definitions - of stocking rate, or profit, or COP for example (platform / farm, labour or not, land charge etc.) that the message itself can be muddied by the same figures which are intended to ram it home.

    The example which sticks out in my mind was the "don't push stocking rate" board - no land charge on the "home farm" but payment for all silage or concentrate brought in. It was - so I understood - OK if the farm was split into two as long as the out-farm had no land charge either - so in fact we were looking at a very comprehensive statistical comparison of the margins available on owned and paid for land versus bought in feed. I would have thought the more relevant question for most people was milking platform stocking vs out-farm and the cost differential for carrying feed between the two, or indeed the effect on utilisation of raising the stocking rate on the MP so much that no silage is cut. Maybe I'm wrong and I notice there were other optimal SR boards there.

    I thought Creed came across very business like and jargon-free in the Brexit debate. It's disappointing though that the Teagasc guy again misquoted his own report (I think) in saying that nearly half the herds had 100 cows (the report says nearly half the cows are in 100+ herds. I think a quarter of herds have 100 cows).

    And that herd size is important because he also repeated the part truth about us being "one of the most competitive producers in the world" - which as often discussed here is only on the basis of nil labour costs. With labour costs, at least in herds of less than 100 cows, we are among the least competitive.


    I'm pleased that we've started talking about resilience rather than sustainability, but I think it's more important than ever that we have our eyes wide open to the precise extent that inherited land and family labour create that resilience, especially if Teagasc think (mistakenly) that half of us are milking a hundred or more cows already.
    On the stocking rate, I was talking to Joe Patten(? I think) about it and he admitted the 3.1 base stocking rate was too high and also the 4.5 max stocking rate was too high. 2.6-2.7 and 4.0 would have been closer to the SR for the growth rate of the grass growth on the farm but the point they wanted to make was for resilience you must keep your SR at the point you can grow grass at for the most part.

    You get more stable, constant profits for the lower SRs and huge fluctuations with bought in feed at higher SRs.


  • #3080
    pedigree 6
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭pedigree 6


    Buford T. Justice V wrote: »
    For me, the putting in stone on the bottom of the drain before putting in the drain to prevent build up of silt in the pipe was the interesting point today.

    And a the roadways were interesting too.

    Yea I liked the roadways.
    That sandstone looked really good stuff for finishing off the top.

    I got in at 2.30 so hadn't much time at each stand.
    What was the reason they gave for silt blocking drainage pipes?
    Did they say to laser the fall on the drains before putting in and only one oulet and have the drains down deep?

    Take home messages for me were
    -Winter milkers are better off financially than spring. (From PM)
    -Continue to keep the focus and attention on grass management and have correct pre grazing covers.
    -Some jersey crosses look nice.
    -I have bigger calves than them.
    -If there's another one in 2 years time there better not be a plastic collection in clonroche again because you'd need a whole day in Moorepark.
    -Maybe go down the cork road the next time.

    The milking parlour looks well though and it was nice to see the cows being milked.

    Oh and anyone else think the reseed without Roundup looked better than the ones with.

    Enjoyable few hours all the same.


  • #3081
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    pedigree 6 wrote: »
    Yea I liked the roadways.
    That sandstone looked really good stuff for finishing off the top.

    I got in at 2.30 so hadn't much time at each stand.
    What was the reason they gave for silt blocking drainage pipes?
    Did they say to laser the fall on the drains before putting in and only one oulet and have the drains down deep?

    Take home messages for me were
    -Winter milkers are better off financially than spring. (From PM)
    -Continue to keep the focus and attention on grass management and have correct pre grazing covers.
    -Some jersey crosses look nice.
    -I have bigger calves than them.
    -If there's another one in 2 years time there better not be a plastic collection in clonroche again because you'd need a whole day in Moorepark.
    -Maybe go down the cork road the next time.

    The milking parlour looks well though and it was nice to see the cows being milked.

    Oh and anyone else think the reseed without Roundup looked better than the ones with.

    Enjoyable few hours all the same.
    The silt gets washed in with water entering the pipes and gets deposited and builds up over time. Having stone under allows the silt to fall down below the pipes so you still have 80mm pipe available for large water flows.

    I missed some of the talk so I didn't hear any talk about laser levels or outlets.

    It's a great day alright but you really do need the full day at it. I had to leave earlier than I'd like to get a bite to eat and wasn't able for the walk back so I headed home around 3. I was lucky I started with the first group and ambled away through the stands at my ease.


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  • #3082
    whelan2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,811 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Interesting about the winter milkers, anyone got a pic of the figures please


  • #3083
    kowtow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭kowtow


    Buford T. Justice V wrote: »
    On the stocking rate, I was talking to Joe Patten(? I think) about it and he admitted the 3.1 base stocking rate was too high and also the 4.5 max stocking rate was too high. 2.6-2.7 and 4.0 would have been closer to the SR for the growth rate of the grass growth on the farm but the point they wanted to make was for resilience you must keep your SR at the point you can grow grass at for the most part.

    You get more stable, constant profits for the lower SRs and huge fluctuations with bought in feed at higher SRs.

    Yes - his point was actually that bought in feed increases the leverage of your operation, which is absolutely true.

    The trouble is that buying or renting an outfarm also increases the leverage. For example, the cost per kg of grass silage in his model is identical to the cost per kg I allow for baled grass from my rented silage ground. I went into this in some detail with him and he felt that if you included a land charge for the whole farm the model would show exactly the same, I'm not sure that it would - but to the extent that it did it would simply become a grass vs ration model (which is another way of increasing leverage).

    Do you think it would help if Teagasc published a standardised set of definitions at some point in the near future and then tried to stick to them? The breadth and depth of the work they are doing is so impressive, I don't think they need to hide the subtleties so much.


  • #3084
    kowtow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭kowtow


    pedigree 6 wrote: »
    Yea I liked the roadways.
    Oh and anyone else think the reseed without Roundup looked better than the ones with.

    Enjoyable few hours all the same.

    The Teagasc guy said they had all noticed the reseed without roundup was more vigorous and nobody understood why! They thought it might just be that bit of the field...

    The cows all looked well even the crosses... and the cows in at milking are amazingly quiet. Makes you want to substitute a few of your own in the dead of night and watch the entertainment.


  • #3085
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    whelan2 wrote: »
    Interesting about the winter milkers, anyone got a pic of the figures please

    Tw8ljpM.jpg


  • #3086
    Waffletraktor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,445 ✭✭✭Waffletraktor


    kowtow wrote: »
    The Teagasc guy said they had all noticed the reseed without roundup was more vigorous and nobody understood why! They thought it might just be that bit of the field...

    What type of method was used in the other part?
    There is an accepted school of thought here that graminacea crops cause a quick build up of antaginous organic acids that need to be gotten rid of in a fresh stuble for growth to take off. Something similar to burning off a field of grass and not getting a decent shot of rain for cultivating it in.


  • #3087
    kowtow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭kowtow


    Waffletraktor wrote: »
    What type of method was used in the other part?
    There is an accepted school of thought here that graminacea crops cause a quick build up of antaginous organic acids that need to be gotten rid of in a fresh stuble for growth to take off. Something similar to burning off a field of grass and not getting a decent shot of rain for cultivating it in.

    there was low-till (stitching I think) and plough, and then plots of each method with no roundup, no post emergence, one of each, and both. What I found interesting was the retention of old grass in the no-roundup scenario.


  • #3088
    visatorro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,865 ✭✭✭visatorro


    Waffletraktor wrote: »
    What type of method was used in the other part?
    There is an accepted school of thought here that graminacea crops cause a quick build up of antaginous organic acids that need to be gotten rid of in a fresh stuble for growth to take off. Something similar to burning off a field of grass and not getting a decent shot of rain for cultivating it in.

    Very sorry Waffletraktor can you put that in simple terms for me please?!


  • #3089
    kowtow
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭kowtow


    visatorro wrote: »
    Very sorry Waffletraktor can you put that in simple terms for me please?!

    He's tickling the edge of your circle of competence?

    Thought it was just me.


  • #3090
    visatorro
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,865 ✭✭✭visatorro


    kowtow wrote: »
    He's tickling the edge of your circle of competence?

    Thought it was just me.

    Yeah herself does that aswell, does nothing for my performance!


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  • #3091
    yosemitesam1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    visatorro wrote: »
    Very sorry Waffletraktor can you put that in simple terms for me please?!

    Allelopathy, chemicals produced as it dies that harm the growth/vigour of other plants.


    Was my first time in moorepark today and don't think I'll be back, hopefully will get to the groundswell show next year instead


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