Official Conor McGregor thread (part 3) *Updated Warning in 1st Post Re:Boxing match

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

He doesn't.

He just has it in his head (for whatever reason) that someone needs to be fitter to box (/avoid being hit matrix style) for 3 mins than would need to be in order to grapple, punch, knee, elbow and wheel kick etc for 5 mins.

MMA fitness is not real fitness ya see.

In fairness i dont think thats the point he was trying to make at all

walshb wrote: »

And for the record I would say MMA when intense probably is as much cardio draining if not more than boxing when it is intense

Can't know for certain...

It's not an easy comparison to make.

I'm not a scientist so make what you want of the below. Small sample sizes is my take-away but interesting all the same

1. 33 amateur boxers were studied fighting over 3x3 min rounds. 6 amateur MMA fighters were studied (same duration). The average Max Blood Lactate figures:

Boxers: 13.6 +/- 2.4 mmol.l (millimoles) (range 11.2 to 16)
MMA: 10.5 - 20.7 mmol.l (range 10.5 to 20.7)


2. Similar studies were done on other constituent parts of MMA:

35 Brazilian Jiu Jitsu players and 12 Division 1 NCAA wrestlers:

BJJ: 8 - 11 mmol.l (range 8 to 11)
NCAA: 17 - 21 mmol.l (range 17 to 21)

3. https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Seth_Lenetsky/publication/232239063_The_Mixed_Martial_Arts_Athlete_A_Physiological_Profile/links/54f3a6b60cf2f9e34f07e6df.pdf

There's a big study ^. I read it but it's not worth your time reading it.

I'll summarise it with one headline:

Boxers were found to have the highest VO2 Max levels in studies between all the individual disciplines but the conclusion of the authors was that MMA fighters are likely to have similar VO2 Max levels to boxers.

Even shorter summary: You need to be fit as fcuk to go 5x5's in MMA or 12x3's in boxing.

walshb wrote: »

On the subject of that, if you stuck a very fit boxer on a 5 a side pitch he'd be gassed quicker than the fit soccer player...

I'd similarly argue that you could stick Mo Farah into a boxing ring with no specific boxing training and his arms would be completely done-for after 2 or 3 rounds.

Mo has world-class endurance but you're suddenly asking him to hold his arms high for extended periods and throw punches & defend himself. For people not used to doing that, even extremely fit people, their shoulders and arms will be burning and completely dead after 5-6 mins.

It is incredibly tiring to even just hold your hands up for extended periods of time.

walshb wrote: »

If I was labeling Conor a boxer based off what I have seen in the Octagon he would be a pot shot type conserving fighter, similar to Floyd of recent years. He never struck me as one for the kind of busy and sustained pace where he could get off shots every few seconds.

Now, he steps in the ring and he is made do stuff consistently and busily, and I see him tiring badly. He is not trained enough for long enough at boxing to show me otherwise.

You're correct in his recent fights but incorrect if you take his career as a whole. It wasn't always that way.

Conor's UFC part of his career has been one of constant adaptation. He has gone through periods of being a high-volume forward-pressure fighter (Brandao, Siver, Mendes) and periods of being a lower-volume forward-pressure counter-puncher (Diaz 2, Alvarez).

There haven't been too many fights in his entire career he has fought on the back-foot as a counter-puncher but the Marcus Brimage fight was one of those, because he charged at him like a bull and Conor played matador.

I don't think it's correct to label him a pot-shot fighter. Conor is ranked 7th (all-time) in the UFC for Significant Strikes Landed Per Minute, he lands on average 5.82 per minute.

In his completed 1st Rounds in the UFC he threw (total/per minute):

87 strikes against Max (17+ pm)
87 strikes against Siver (17+pm)
74 strikes Nate 1 (was on the mat for a little bit)
58 strikes Nate 2 (11+pm)
57 strikes Eddie. (11+pm)

*I left out Chad because there was like 3 minutes on the mat getting elbowed.

I think we have seen a noticeable trend - even without these stats - that Conor has shifted away from volume and energy sapping kicks towards efficiency and accuracy. Getting choked out due to gassing probably inspired the change. He's throwing less and landing more. Risky spinning kicks out, controlled kicking in.

I don't know what the answer is for this fight but intuitively I'm thinking he needs to throw more/land less like he used to do.

He's capable of it but the downside is when he throws more he gets hit a lot more. Dennis Siver landed 27 shots on Conor in Round 1. He needs to find some sort of balance between the 2 styles because you'd have to imagine Floyd is a better counter-puncher than Dennis Siver...

The one thing that will suit Conor massively (and I feel confident in this) are the 3 minute rounds. In MMA, there is a noticeable drop-off in Conor's output in almost every fight from the 3 minute to 5 minute mark, compared to the first 3 minutes.

Add to that the fact he has a great nutritionist and a guy in Dr. Julian Dalby who has been a national champion cyclist and weight-lifter, and I'm sure Conor can still lean on the support/wisdom from the Irish Strength Institute etc.

He's surrounded by good people, giving him the correct advice.

If he loses it will be down to Floyd's supreme skills, not cardio.

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

That a long post that completely misses the point.

He didn't say MMA fighters aren't fit or aren't as fit as boxers, he said it's a different type of fitness.

This isn't hard to understand.

He said:

"I would say MMA when intense probably is as much cardio draining if not more than boxing when it is intense"

I posted stats that agreed with his point.

So I've no idea what you're on about.

walshb wrote: »

The threat of it will also see Conor needing to be very careful and may see him having to move a lot to avoid it .

My view was that he should work hard on cardio and defense. Make the body hard and the engine as full as possible.

Yeah George Foreman said that it was the shots that Ali didn't throw (but he expected him to throw) were what drained him as much as anything. Constantly reacting to shots he thought were coming that never came.

Conor is doing all he can on the cardio front, I'm confident he'll be in the best boxing shape he can possibly be - whether that's enough to compete with Floyd is a different Q.