Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

Annie get your Run · 28-06-2017 08:28PM

One this evening on the way home, I was in the bus lane on the South Quays keeping up with the traffic and in between two busses, I'm in the centre of the lane because up ahead the lane splits into left or straight and I'm going straight. There's braking distance between me and the bus ahead and the bus behind is a safe enough distance too although you wouldn't fit a car into any of the gaps. A guy in the lane to my right puts on his indicator, he wants to go left up ahead however, the bus in front of me continues (as is his right) and so do I but Mr commercial van(car) has other ideas, he's put on his indicator you see, which apparently means I'm to yield to him and let him through so away he goes into a space that's not there and I have to brake, hard. I gesticulate my displeasure at his manoeuvre and of course now the lights have gone red so we all have to stop. He's shouting out the window at me telling me 'I saw you, but I had my indicator on', I replied that that does not give him the right of way and that he could have killed me, 'but I didn't' I asked him if he knew the rules of the road 'of course I do' says he 'don't have heart attack' says he' I reiterated that he could have killed me 'there's no problem' says he, 'there is' says I and I'm reporting you for dangerous driving (company logo on the side of the car). He went very quiet.

He would not have pulled in on top of me had I been driving my car, or one of the busses. I heard some comment on Matt Cooper earlier about cyclists being second class citizens because we don't pay tax or insurance and why do we think we've as much right on the road as everyone else. I turned it off, I hadn't the stomach to listen to more.

Chuchote · 29-06-2017 06:40AM

Annie get your Run wrote: »

I heard some comment on Matt Cooper earlier about cyclists being second class citizens because we don't pay tax or insurance and why do we think we've as much right on the road as everyone else. I turned it off, I hadn't the stomach to listen to more.

Tax and insurance should be added to the price of fuel; it would stop this crap.

Fighting Tao · 29-06-2017 07:07AM

Chuchote wrote: »

Tax and insurance should be added to the price of fuel; it would stop this crap.

Being from a border town I believe It would have to be done on an all Ireland basis unless a hard border is implemented. There is a huge economy built around fuel along the border. Slight changes in prices create massive swings in weather people travel north or south for fuel.

Type 17 · 29-06-2017 08:20AM

Chuchote wrote: »

Tax and insurance should be added to the price of fuel; it would stop this crap.

Unfortunately, it would continue, as motor-vehicle drivers would then say that cyclists don't pay tax or insurance because we don't buy fuel :mad:

(Like many cyclists, there are cars in our household, so we do buy fuel and pay for insurance and motor tax)

Kaisr Sose · 29-06-2017 09:01AM

The no tax / no insurance issue / discussion around cyclists should be banned or given a seperate thread for discussion. It's right up there with the hi-vis and helmet discussion.

Chuchote · 29-06-2017 09:02AM

Type 17 wrote: »

Unfortunately, it would continue, as motor-vehicle drivers would then say that cyclists don't pay tax or insurance because we don't buy fuel :mad:

(Like many cyclists, there are cars in our household, so we do buy fuel and pay for insurance and motor tax)

That wouldn't matter - we buy food and that's our fuel :rolleyes:

I love Sean nos · 29-06-2017 03:19PM

Annie get your Run wrote: »

I heard some comment on Matt Cooper earlier about cyclists being second class citizens because we don't pay tax or insurance and why do we think we've as much right on the road as everyone else. I turned it off, I hadn't the stomach to listen to more.

I was also half-listening to this on the drive home yesterday. I can't recall if it was Ciarán Cuffe or Ciarán Cannon. Regardless, he cycles regularly. A text was read out to him; some buffoon listener wanted to know all about road tax. There was a brief response about there being no such thing, then that there was no need for motor tax because cyclists don't generate pollution.

However, I don't think he was strong enough.

Question: Blaa blaa blaa road tax/motor tax.
Answer: Bicycles don't have motors. Next.

Question: Blaa blaa blaa pay for road.
Answer: Everyone pays for roads through general taxation.

Question: Blaa blaa cyclists aren't entitled to be on the road.
Answer: Drivers of motorised vehicles require a licence to use the road. Cyclists do not. Therefore pedestrians and cyclists are more "entitled" to use the road than motorists.

And the way that I'd like the response of "road tax" to the subject of cyclist deaths and injuries to be treated is "So you think that people using bicycles should be subjected to death and the threat of death until the pay some form of tax? Is that what you're seriously suggesting?" Treat such comments with the contempt that they deserve.

Later he was waxing lyrical about the cycling strategy document that his party wrote or something in response to a question about funding for cycling infrastructure. In 2012. Cooper didn't ask him the obvious question; so what? It's a 5 year old document. What have you done with it? You say you're fully supportive of cycling infrastructure. Prove it. You're the party in government.

I turned off at that point.

randomname2005 · 29-06-2017 05:01PM

I have been driving around rural Ireland on holidays and jaesus it is awful. Behind two cyclists on a windy road, solid white line, impatient driver behind me over takes the three of us. Met them at a cafe later and explained why I wouldn't pass them. They understood but had the guilt.

Edit. I did not pass until I came to a broken yellow line. Hence why I said above that I had to explain why I wouldn't pass.

Came around a corner to find a jag halfway over the white line trying to overtake. Look in the mirror after we pass and he is trying again.

On the first incident, one of the cyclists was beckoning me to pass which I found worrying as I would have had to cross the white line and break the law. But then later the wife asked would I break the white line if a pedestrian was walking towards us. Apologies if ot but what do you drivers do in this situation? The thought of coming to a complete stop to let them walk past is terrifying given how people drive on country roads but the other option is to cross the line.

Edit. The question everyone answered is not what I asked. When a pedestrian is walking towards you and you can't reasonably pass without crossing the line, when solid, do you stop?

De Bhál · 29-06-2017 05:12PM

randomname2005 wrote: »

I have been driving around rural Ireland on holidays and jaesus it is awful. Behind two cyclists on a windy road, solid white line, impatient driver behind me over takes the three of us. Met them at a cafe later and explained why I wouldn't pass them. They understood but had the guilt.

Came around a corner to find a jag halfway over the white line trying to overtake. Look in the mirror after we pass and he is trying again.

On the first incident, one of the cyclists was beckoning me to pass which I found worrying as I would have had to cross the white line and break the law. But then later the wife asked would I break the white line if a pedestrian was walking towards us. Apologies if ot but what do you drivers do in this situation? The thought of coming to a complete stop to let them walk past is terrifying given how people drive on country roads but the other option is to cross the line.

just overtake them while crossing the white line, as long as it's safe to do so, as in you're sure there's nothing approching.
You can't be expected to sit behind a pair of cyclists going about 25km/h for long stretches on country roads because you're afraid to cross a solid white line.

Chuchote · 29-06-2017 05:24PM

randomname2005 wrote: »

I have been driving around rural Ireland on holidays and jaesus it is awful. Behind two cyclists on a windy road, solid white line, impatient driver behind me over takes the three of us. Met them at a cafe later and explained why I wouldn't pass them. They understood but had the guilt.

Came around a corner to find a jag halfway over the white line trying to overtake. Look in the mirror after we pass and he is trying again.

On the first incident, one of the cyclists was beckoning me to pass which I found worrying as I would have had to cross the white line and break the law. But then later the wife asked would I break the white line if a pedestrian was walking towards us. Apologies if ot but what do you drivers do in this situation? The thought of coming to a complete stop to let them walk past is terrifying given how people drive on country roads but the other option is to cross the line.

Surely you behave as you would with a car or a tractor in a similar situation - wait till there's a long straight stretch (which will probably have a broken line anyway) and then nip around them, giving them plenty of space.

papu · 29-06-2017 05:34PM

De Bh103947187 wrote:

just overtake them while crossing the white line, as long as it's safe to do so, as in you're sure there's nothing approching.
You can't be expected to sit behind a pair of cyclists going about 25km/h for long stretches on country roads because you're afraid to cross a solid white line.

You really can't suggest they break the solid white line, because to do so is against the law.
From the Garda press office.

. It is also accepted that vehicles are not permitted to cross a single or continuous white line, and indeed it is a penalty point offence to do so. The only exceptions are in an emergency or for access.

Chuchote · 29-06-2017 05:37PM

As a matter of interest, are there any records on how long the longest white line in the country is?

I remember a road in Kerry years and years ago that swivelled back and forth so you'd get seasick on it, and it seemed to have a white line that went for eternity, but maybe that's because I was going uphill.

Lumen · 29-06-2017 07:16PM

Chuchote wrote: »

As a matter of interest, are there any records on how long the longest white line in the country is?

RTE toilets?

Corca Baiscinn · 29-06-2017 07:51PM

I love Sean nos wrote: »

I was also half-listening to this on the drive home yesterday. I can't recall if it was Ciarán Cuffe or Ciarán Cannon. Regardless, he cycles regularly. A text was read out to him; some buffoon listener wanted to know all about road tax. There was a brief response about there being no such thing, then that there was no need for motor tax because cyclists don't generate pollution.

Later he was waxing lyrical about the cycling strategy document that his party wrote or something in response to a question about funding for cycling infrastructure. In 2012. Cooper didn't ask him the obvious question; so what? It's a 5 year old document. What have you done with it? You say you're fully supportive of cycling infrastructure. Prove it. You're the party in government.

I turned off at that point.

Ah now, you were only half listening! It was Ciaran Cannon and the main point of the interview was to push for the need for the MPDL which he is co-sponsoring as a private members bill. The comment re road tax just came in by text and while I don't disagree with any of the things you've said regarding the issue, I think it would have derailed the interview and given the texter too much prominence to have said them all just then. The reference to the 2012 Strategy Document was to FF's, not his, and the point of referring to it was that FF should therefore be likely to support a MPDL since they had called for it. I think it's unfair to ask what he has done as he hasn't been in a Transport or Justice Ministry but he has co-sponsored the MPDL and seems to be busting his gut to get cross-party support for it.
I think that it was brilliant that a Minister, albeit a Junior one said live on air that he commutes in Dublin by bike and that it's shameful that Matt Cooper feels that he can't let his 13 year old son out on his bike and that this needs to change.
I never thought I'd find myself defending an ex PD TD but we people on bikes must take our friends where we find them! I think the interview was heartening especially after the barrage of negativity in the past week from Verona Murray, Superintendent Reed et al. For anyone who'd like to listen back it's about 57 minutes-in, on Newstalk Drive yesterday. Just before, a spokesperson for the group who "saved" the St Andrew St Cycle Lane from encroaching traffic on Mon was on and just before that Matt Cooper said that he saw a Garda looking for the driver of a truck who had blocked the cycle lane in Rathmines so things are looking up!

De Bhál · 29-06-2017 08:10PM

papu wrote: »

De Bh103947187 wrote:

just overtake them while crossing the white line, as long as it's safe to do so, as in you're sure there's nothing approching.
You can't be expected to sit behind a pair of cyclists going about 25km/h for long stretches on country roads because you're afraid to cross a solid white line.

You really can't suggest they break the solid white line, because to do so is against the law.
From the Garda press office.

. It is also accepted that vehicles are not permitted to cross a single or continuous white line, and indeed it is a penalty point offence to do so. The only exceptions are in an emergency or for access.

OK what I suggest is just use common sense so.

ThisRegard · 29-06-2017 08:17PM

Pedestrian, cyclist, animal etc, cross the white line when you're sure it's safe.

Edit, Cannon was unashamedly truthful in describing how he has no trouble taking and holding his road space, and telling idiot listeners what motor tax actually is when they started texting in about road tax. Nice to hear a member of government not trying to sit on both sides of the fence for once on this topic.

Corca Baiscinn · 29-06-2017 08:35PM

[QUOTE Edit, Cannon was unashamedly truthful in describing how he has no trouble taking and holding his road space, and telling idiot listeners what motor tax actually is when they started texting in about road tax. Nice to hear a member of government not trying to sit on both sides of the fence for once on this topic.[/QUOTE]

Yes, but also acknowledging I think that not everyone has his degree of experience or confidence and that if we are to ever have kids cycling to school again that things have to change both from pov of infrastructure and driver attitude/behaviour

I love Sean nos · 29-06-2017 08:36PM

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

The comment re road tax just came in by text and while I don't disagree with any of the things you've said regarding the issue, I think it would have derailed the interview and given the texter too much prominence to have said them all just then.

That's fair enough and I'd be happy if he took an either harder line and responded saying "Matt, that's not relevant, so I'm not going to respond." If some listener wants to publicise that he or she is a moron, let them at it.

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

The reference to the 2012 Strategy Document was to FF's, not his, and the point of referring to it was that FF should therefore be likely to support a MPDL since they had called for it. I think it's unfair to ask what he has done as he hasn't been in a Transport or Justice Ministry but he has co-sponsored the MPDL and seems to be busting his gut to get cross-party support for it.

His statement on it sounded rather wishy-washy to me. Even for a politician.

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

it's shameful that Matt Cooper feels that he can't let his 13 year old son out on his bike and that this needs to change.

That was another opportunity to ridicule recent statements made by Gardai and the RSA. "Slap a helmet and some high-vis on him Matt and he'll be grand. Sure, isn't that what the RSA say. Make sure he knows all about his responsibilities as a cyclist to be visible and share the road."

AndrewJRenko · 29-06-2017 08:38PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

Pedestrian, cyclist, animal etc, cross the white line when you're sure it's safe.

Edit, Cannon was unashamedly truthful in describing how he has no trouble taking and holding his road space, and telling idiot listeners what motor tax actually is when they started texting in about road tax. Nice to hear a member of government not trying to sit on both sides of the fence for once on this topic.

It was also interesting to note that Matt didn't feel obliged to drag in Conor 'can I sell you a car-related insurance product' Faughnan or gob****e John McGurk or some other dinosaur for 'balance'?

Eamonnator · 29-06-2017 08:38PM

Chuchote wrote: »

Tax and insurance should be added to the price of fuel; it would stop this crap.

Not sure that would work.
I have full no claims bonus on my car insurance and would have to pay the same for my insurance as a learner driver. I don't think that would be fair.

Corca Baiscinn · 29-06-2017 08:42PM

He was trying to remind and embarrass FF I'd say, reminding them that they had the same idea in their manifesto in case they had any idea now of opposing it because it was proposed by a FG TD, though not by the government.

Re your idea of ridiculing the helmet and high-viz proponents, it's one approach but not the only one, it's frustrating when progress is at snail's pace if even that but perhaps alienating the people whose support you need isn't always clever and there's more than one way to skin a cat..............

I love Sean nos · 29-06-2017 08:45PM

Lumen wrote: »

RTE toilets?

That trailed off in 2010.

magicbastarder · 29-06-2017 09:19PM

Eamonnator wrote: »

I have full no claims bonus on my car insurance and would have to pay the same for my insurance as a learner driver. I don't think that would be fair.

AFAIK most 'insurance on petrol' models only provide third party insurance - most people would be paying for comprehensive separately.

Eamonnator · 29-06-2017 10:45PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

AFAIK most 'insurance on petrol' models only provide third party insurance - most people would be paying for comprehensive separately.

I still wouldn't want to pay the same for 3rd party insurance as a learner driver, or a driver with 9 penalty points.

Kaisr Sose · 29-06-2017 10:54PM

Eamonnator wrote: »

I still wouldn't want to pay the same for 3rd party insurance as a learner driver, or a driver with 9 penalty points.

I am not familiar with the workings of the pay as you go insurance but there has to be some way that drivers with loadings are charged / penalised. It sounds like a good idea to have all this centralised in one way but I don't see it being workable/ legal under EU Law. Is it not state intervention in the insurance market/ unfair / restrictive ? ANPR that has timely and accurate information will work when it is introduced in 2019. It's a joke they we in Ireland have to wait so long for technology that is now tried, tested and widely deployed in other countries.

Chuchote · 29-06-2017 11:07PM

Eamonnator wrote: »

Not sure that would work.
I have full no claims bonus on my car insurance and would have to pay the same for my insurance as a learner driver. I don't think that would be fair.

Insurance is high partly because so many people are skiving off and not paying. If it was on the fuel it would be cheaper; you'd pay more if you drove more, but everyone would pay.

I think it actually is charged on fuel in some country/countries, but maybe it's tax only.

29-06-2017 11:28PM

You could likely to have a less likely to have an accident wife fill up the the car but I get the idea in linking insurance to fuel. Everyone would have to pay. Proper IT system in place and linking cars to a card and drivers or something.

Chiparus · 29-06-2017 11:54PM

You could do what they do in Australia where 3rd party insurance is included in your car tax ( rego), insurance companies tender to provide this 3rd party insurance.

beans · 30-06-2017 08:56AM

Tangentially on-topic, I've started commuting on my road-bike after a 10-month hiatus due to a bad crash killing my old frame.

At the point of the crash, every day this week, I've been super-sketchy on the brakes and hyper-vigilant before even consciously aware of where I am

I'm still living that crash in some corner of my mind

Pinch Flat · 30-06-2017 09:05AM

Guy in an audi this morning, cut in front of me when I was going through a green light at this junction. He turned right, into a queue of traffic..

https://goo.gl/maps/vn87Lj3ecHw

He gave me a friendly wave as if you say "sorry, didn't see see your flashing 200 lumen strobe". I reciprocated "yeah it's only a matter of time before you kill someone with that driving".

Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

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