Is there anybody else who dislikes pride?

Manion · 25-06-2017 12:03AM

southstar wrote: »

OK

Again you are wilfully missing the point that people are rarely if ever a target for being heterosexual.. but I guess you are possibly too immature to admit that you wrong. As for all the pedantic nonsense about tags and HTML blah, blah broken post.. that's another screen for being unable to hold a debate.. I'm still wondering what it was that got you so offended about Gizmos post.. maybe you just like to be offended? I won't wait up for a more sensible reply

I don't think you are wondering actually. I think you understood perfectly the point. You willfully miss represent my posts for your own reasons. Perhaps trolling? The posts is offensive. Much like snowflakes one. I really dislike this business of militant gay's attacking hetros. It's ugly, you should be ashamed.

BTW you asked what I meant by broken and then moan when I explained.

Manion · 25-06-2017 12:14AM

snowflaker wrote: »

Oh to be a straight acting white cis male gay- the persecution cuts deeps...

You guys must only watch the recently made stonewall movie...

This is really offensive, but sadly very typical. The use of the word CIS as an insult, implying people are acting straight. You're not a very nice person.

Vojera · 25-06-2017 09:32AM

You can't trust all gay people because - shock! - you think a politician used every tool available to gain himself an advantage? I hate to break it to you, but that's what politicians do. His sexuality has nothing to do with it.

There is no agenda. You'll find that LGBTQ+ people have diverse opinions on divisive issues such as abortion. We're individuals with our own experiences and ideas, not a hive mind.

Manion · 25-06-2017 09:45AM

People like yourself are never motivated by humanitarian objectives. You see a section of society getting, to your mind, special treatment and feel embittered. You talk about Leo like he owes you information on his personal life.

I suggest you take a long look at what actually motivates you to hold these bigoted views and why you feel compelled to share them on an lgbt forum. I think you will die alone, sad, and angry someday unless you change your ways. Seek help.

baby and crumble · 25-06-2017 10:00AM

Tricky dicky do not post again on this thread or you'll be facing a holiday from the forum.

Language like "these people " etc is not welcome in what is a safe space for th LGBTQ community. Read the forum charter before posting here again.

Talented Dicky · 25-06-2017 10:07AM

baby and crumble wrote: »

Tricky dicky do not post again on this thread or you'll be facing a holiday from the forum.

Language like "these people " etc is not welcome in what is a safe space for th LGBTQ community. Read the forum charter before posting here again.

Go and **** yourself buddy

baby and crumble · 25-06-2017 10:17AM

Tricky Dicky banned for one week.

Can we get back on track on the thread? No point talking about "the gays" in general. This thread is about Pride celebrations

Ps hope everyone had a good one!

feardeas · 25-06-2017 10:56AM

Wasn't at the parade. Went into town for a few last night. Lovely atmosphere with people enjoying themselves, not messy where we were.

Good music, good Craic and not waiting ages for a drink. Good night.

If people feel intimidated or put out by that then frankly they should consider themselves very lucky that that's all they have worrying them.

Happy post pride hangover day folks.

BlinkingLights · 25-06-2017 11:47AM

Talented Dicky: that's one hell of a sweeping set of allegations.

As an LGBT+ person we share one characteristic in common, much like being ginger or having green eyes. Many of us have had common experiences in terms of coming out, not coming out, having to deal with homophobia and having to organise against it.

Outside of that gay people are as diverse and as politically and ideologically different from each other as any other group of people and hold a lot of different points of view and life experiences.

You'll get everything from the socially progressive radical to the conservative money obsessed fashionista and everything in between.

Also I think Leo Varadkar's speech yesterday was interesting and while I don't agree with most of his politics, I am definitely much further left, I do appreciate that he clearly understands that he is able to do that job as an open gay man because of the hard work of the LGBT community and that includes people he would have very little in common with politically.

I hope that the struggle this community has been through rubs off on him, even bit, and that he starts to see that other groups who are still struggling need to be brought into the tent too.

Pappacharlie · 25-06-2017 11:55AM

I'm not anti gay or anything like it. In fact I voted in favour of the gay marriage referendum. One of the main reasons I did so was that when gay people have the exact same rights as the hetrosexuals have it would do away with the necessity to have such marches. Why do they still feel the urge to march? When is the heterosexual day?

BlinkingLights · 25-06-2017 12:04PM

Read back through thread!

Gay marriage was a huge deal and the campaign had a big impact on social acceptance but...

Ireland and most places have still got major issues with homophobia. Try this out. Grab a male friend's hand (assuming you're male) hold it and go for a walk around central Dublin for the afternoon in maybe January when there's no pride on and try looking like you're a couple. Some of it will be fine, but I guarantee you'll get verbal abuse from some random scumbag before long and you'll feel pretty uncomfortable.

You'll soon see why the battle is far from over.

Board a flight and try that in many parts of Europe, particularly to the east and it could easily get you killed.

Then consider that right now you've got a large % of countries that would see nothing wrong with arresting, jailing or even killing me or people like me.

Until that stuff changes, all of these organisations go on.

Hopefully there eventually will be a day were pride is a bit like a memory of the Suffragettes movement but even they haven't achieved women's rights globally and still have issues in progressive countries after more than a century of organised campaigning!

Even where rights are achieved, we have to be vigilant they aren't rolled back - look at the USA where you've states trying to remove gay rights legislation with notions or respecting religious rights to discriminate in businesses and so on.

Look across the border where you've an openly homophobic party in power and gay marriage and gay rights largely being implemented because or Westminster not Stormont.

Pride and gay rights organisations will be around for a long time yet!

nkav86 · 25-06-2017 12:19PM

I've always been a person that dreads pride. It's crazy busy, messy and I've experienced some gay people being aggressive in their ' pride' before. For example I saw a young gay man get in an onlookers face saying 'yeah, I'm gay, and what?' When the onlooker did nothing but stand and watch the parade.

Now, that being said, that was one type of experience and it was mine, I'm not saying it's always that way and that's how people always act. I'm just saying that's part of the reason I avoided it.

But I live beside Smithfield and yesterday I went there with friends to give it a go again. The atmosphere was great, I avoided the busiest parts and ended up in a bar. It was busy as hell all day, but the general feeling was happiness and let's all enjoy ourselves while paying for small overpriced drinks!

I really loved it, and if I can have an experience like that every year I'd be very happy!

Annasopra · 25-06-2017 12:29PM

Dont respond to banned posters

BlinkingLights · 25-06-2017 12:30PM

Yup.

I think it's a big enough and broad enough festival at this stage that most people will find some aspects they enjoy.

There's a nice atmosphere developing at these events and that is probably reflecting the social changes too.

Annasopra · 25-06-2017 12:37PM

Pappacharlie wrote: »

I'm not anti gay or anything like it. In fact I voted in favour of the gay marriage referendum. One of the main reasons I did so was that when gay people have the exact same rights as the hetrosexuals have it would do away with the necessity to have such marches. Why do they still feel the urge to march? When is the heterosexual day?

The parade is about so much more than equality in marriage. It is about LBTQI people coming together as a community, celebrating who we are, celebrating our diversity, rejecting the cultures of homophobia and transphobia. Equality does not at all mean at all that we are all the same. I am a gay man. I am different. I like celebrating that difference. This idea of a heterosexual day is a bit strange to be honest. Every day I see heterosexuality constantly around me. Couples holding hands, tv programmes, tv ads, couples kissing, magazines, billboards, street ads, transport ads.

BlinkingLights · 25-06-2017 12:59PM

Well it's an important community get together too and I think that can't be underestimated.

It's as messy and important as the way Patrick's Day can bring the Irish community (and friends) together abroad and I think that's something that most Irish people understand. So we should "get" pride too.

I think people forget sometimes that the LGBT community is very, very broad and you've a lot of gay people who may not really have much regular contact with it via any kind of formal network.

A big event in Dublin, Cork, Belfast, Limerick, Galway or your local town is a great opportunity to just mingle.

Whether you're LGBTI yourself, or you're connected through family, friends or just support, it's an opportunity to mingle and meet or even just stand there as know there's a big support network available should you ever want to connect to it.

That stuff is very important.

To me it is always the ones that surprise you that show me how important it is. I've bumped into older people at pride out in huge support of a grand kid or people who may have made it out of the closet for the first time, in a little way, themselves.

Strong Life in Dublin · 25-06-2017 01:01PM

I'm not gay but I checked out the parade yesterday with my gf and it wasn't bad, it was fun and much better than the st patrick's day parade.

BlinkingLights · 25-06-2017 01:09PM

That's the other bit I don't get.

Pride events have a very serious side but they're also hugely positive and fun gatherings that have brought a lot of energy to what would otherwise be a boring weekend in July / August.

They reflect well upon and bring a lot of social and even economic benefits to the cities that have active Pride festivals.

I really don't see the downside for anyone involved. It's great for the LGBTI community and it's a brilliant thing to have in your city or town.

So I can only assume the nay sayers either have a major dislike of all festivals (you do get the odd person who thinks Patrick's Day should be banned too) or there's a wee tinge of homophobia (even the odd gay person who is a tiny bit inwardly homophobic and would rather the whole thing be just kept nice and quiet.)

But that's just my armchair social psychology

WoolyJumper · 25-06-2017 01:09PM

I used to feel like that too. I hated the thought that people saw a guy in assless chaps marching down the street and associated that with me. I used to be embarrassed by overly camp people. Of course all that said more about me than them. I was being selfish, overly concerned about what others thought of me mixed in with my own issues with sexuality and gender roles.

Now I see Pride for what it is, a day in the year where people who are different can stand out and be themselves. A day where the average gay like me can appreciate all the camp, sissy, dyke, trans, drag queens who dared to stand out and represent the gay community and fight for our rights so I can be myself and still be average. It's a day where a young closeted LGBT kid can see that there is a community out there that can support them no matter how isolated they might feel now....and most importantly it reminds me of the history it represents and where it all started from.

If I had one criticism of Pride is that it doesn't emphasis it's own history enough but I think that will change as pride becomes less about fighting for our rights now that times are getting better for us (in Ireland at least).

On a side note actually, I just so happened to be starting a new job a couple of weeks before Dublin Pride...and even though I live and work in Cork (where pride is usually in July) my work marked and celebrated pride in its own little way. I can't tell you how instantly at ease that made me feel in a new work environment. I feel so much more comfortable being myself and talking about "my weekends" with my new co workers.

LLMMLL · 25-06-2017 02:15PM

I don't think there's any need to come up with reasons, valid as they may be, to justify the continuation of pride March post referendum. It's a tradition now. That's all there is to it.

wordofwarning · 25-06-2017 05:50PM

Pappacharlie wrote: »

When is the heterosexual day?

The other 364 days of the year mate!

Yes in the Republic of Ireland, on paper homosexuals and hetrosexuals are equal. But LGBT people are still rejected by their family. So many of my friends went to pride yesterday without telling their family where they were going. They know if they come out as gay, they will be rejected by their family. As a straight person, when was the last you worried about being rejected for being straight? Pride allowed them to see that tens of thousands of other people love them, even if their blood does not.

Pride for a lot of LGBTQI+ people is an opportunity for them to feel loved and accepted for a day. You only have to go a few hours drive from Dublin to see LGBTQI+ people are second class citizens on this island still. A lot of people would have come from the North to see what an inclusive country is like. A lot of people would have come from the country to see that there is an accepting place in Ireland ie Dublin. Where people don't care about your sexual orientation or gender.

Pride is also about not forgetting how LGBTQI+ lives have progressed. Pride is deeply rooted in protest eg the first ever pride marks Stonewall, where LGBT people decided they had enough with police beating and treating them like second class citizens. Pride was started in Dublin, when LGBTQI+ were disguised a gay man was killed and no justice was served. Pride remembers that LGBTQI+ people are equal in the Republic of Ireland today, but only 25 years ago they were getting murdered. It is important not to forget the struggles of others in the past. Black history month in the US highlights this.

I suggest you go to pride next year. It is a free inclusive event, where you will see Pride is not just about 'celebrating the gays' but accepting and loving all regardless of gender, sexual orientation etc etc.

Arbie · 25-06-2017 06:17PM

Pride festivals/parades can mean different things to different people depending on their location, gender, religion, politics, sexuality, general outlook on life, etc. Some of us are quieter and don't like attention, others love a big glitzy party. If you don't enjoy all aspects of Pride that does not make you a bigot; equally, if you love Pride that doesn't make you a snowflake with sinister motives.

After I came out I was still uncomfortable about Pride and the whole drama that seemed to surround it. When I learned the history of Pride and of LGBTQ struggles around the world it took on a totally different meaning.

People argue that we have marriage equality, gay taoiseach, etc., but what about the rest of the planet? We are a tiny country. The majority of gay people in the world live in places that deny them basic rights and may prosecute or even kill them for being in a same-sex relationship.

A drag queen strutting down O'Connell Street may seem a trivial and silly action, but sends an important and powerful message for LGBTQ people around the world. It shows that there are places in the world where things are improving for gay people, where you can be yourself openly and where there is even a public show of support for you. There are brave people in Turkey, Russia, Uganda, who are literally risking their lives to have Pride marches so that they can begin a conversation that might someday bring them the rights that we now enjoy. Moscow Gay Pride was banned in 2012 for a hundred years, which seems draconian to us, but our memories cannot be so short that we forget that the likes of David Norris were putting their safety at risk to decriminalise homosexuality as recently as 1993. While many laws have changed since then, society is still catching up.

There is a moral and social duty on those of us who enjoy equality to continue demonstrating and fighting for equality for others. Pride allows us to do that while also celebrating the huge victories won by previous generations, so many of whom died without seeing the fruits of their sacrifice and courage. Everyone is welcome to their opinion and can ignore Pride if they want. Pride is many things to many people, but fundamentally it is a manifestation of an international human rights campaign that was born out of prejudice and violence against innocent people because of who they loved - and it should not be trivialised.

Seamai · 25-06-2017 06:45PM

My biggest issue with yesterday's pride parade were the large groups marching under the banners of large multinationals and some Irish companies (you all know who I'm talking about).
Call me a cynic but part of me can't help but feel that these companies are using pride to advertise themselves, I also doubt that all these companies provide utopian environments for their LGBT employees. Most of these groups brought little by the way of colour or imagination to the parade.

Sonics2k · 25-06-2017 07:51PM

Throwing in my own two cents here.

Son of a lesbian couple and all that jazz.

I remember when I was about 17 or so (15 years ago), I was chatting about the Pride Parade coming up with my mother and why I thought it was a waste of time to have it now.

See, my thinking at the time was that straight or gay makes no difference, and Pride was just a pointless tradition that we still do because we'd done it for so long. I despise traditions like that, so that was my thinking. In my world, in my mind and existence, I didn't see a difference between being gay or straight. It had no baring on what I thought of you.

My mother made a point, that at the time I didn't really get, but many years later I think I do.

The Pride Parade is not, and has never about flaunting your sexuality (though I admit, some do love their leather chaps in a parade), it was never about anything other than showing yourself for who you are.

It was never about sex or sexuality. It's always been about who we love. At it's core, the Pride Parade is about showing that you are not afraid to say you love someone, despite what the 'norm' of society says.

Ireland is a great country for the LGBT community, and there is no real denying that. However, we still live in a society were a teacher can be dismissed based on who they love.

Where 'fag' is still used as a disparaging and horrible word against a man who simply loves another man, and not an annoying douchebag on a Harley Davidson.

Pride Parades have always been about nothing more than being proud of who you love, and remembering the history and pain inflicted on the LGBT community.

Mr.Frame · 25-06-2017 08:28PM

Sonics2k wrote: »

Throwing in my own two cents here.

Son of a lesbian couple and all that jazz.

I remember when I was about 17 or so (15 years ago), I was chatting about the Pride Parade coming up with my mother and why I thought it was a waste of time to have it now.

See, my thinking at the time was that straight or gay makes no difference, and Pride was just a pointless tradition that we still do because we'd done it for so long. I despise traditions like that, so that was my thinking. In my world, in my mind and existence, I didn't see a difference between being gay or straight. It had no baring on what I thought of you.

My mother made a point, that at the time I didn't really get, but many years later I think I do.

The Pride Parade is not, and has never about flaunting your sexuality (though I admit, some do love their leather chaps in a parade), it was never about anything other than showing yourself for who you are.

It was never about sex or sexuality. It's always been about who we love. At it's core, the Pride Parade is about showing that you are not afraid to say you love someone, despite what the 'norm' of society says.

Ireland is a great country for the LGBT community, and there is no real denying that. However, we still live in a society were a teacher can be dismissed based on who they love.

Where 'fag' is still used as a disparaging and horrible word against a man who simply loves another man, and not an annoying douchebag on a Harley Davidson.

Pride Parades have always been about nothing more than being proud of who you love, and remembering the history and pain inflicted on the LGBT community.

What a lovely post, thank you

ixoy · 25-06-2017 08:50PM

Mr.Frame wrote: »

What a lovely post, thank you

Can we maybe sticky it or something - it's a great answer to when we hear the same boring question repeatedly asked every year.

JupiterKid · 25-06-2017 09:45PM

I used to be quite uncomfortable with aspects of Pride when I first came out - the drag queens and those dressed scantily but in all fairness that was my own internalised homophobia instilled in me growing up that was making me think that way. When I got around to attending and marching in Pride I found a great sense of liberation, expression and freedom in the event and that is what it should all be about.

Pride is about visibility, celebrating diversity and freedom. Originally it was a protest march and of course in less enlightened parts of the world it still is, if it is allowed to take place at all (Russia, I'm looking at you here...)

And so what if there are a few flamboyant participants in the event? The media will always hone in on these and perhaps it might reinforce negative stereotypes for a few homophobes but there will sadly always be homophobia in society, but its a hell of a lot better than it used to be.

I remember growing up in an Ireland where gay sex was illegal, LGBT people were routinely despised, spat upon, attacked and even killed. Societal homophobia and bigotry were the norm. People would casually say that gay men deserved to die of AIDS for their sinful ways. It wasn't that long ago. I never want to see those oppressive days return.

We should remember how and why pride began - a group of LGBT people in the Stonewall Inn in New York in the summer of 1969 were sick and tired at the persecution, the oppression and police harassment and took a stand. Pride is the legacy of this.

If you don't like Pride then simples - don't take part but it still means so much to so many gay people.

Live and let live.

Pappacharlie · 25-06-2017 11:05PM

wordofwarning wrote: »

The other 364 days of the year mate!

Yes in the Republic of Ireland, on paper homosexuals and hetrosexuals are equal. But LGBT people are still rejected by their family. So many of my friends went to pride yesterday without telling their family where they were going. They know if they come out as gay, they will be rejected by their family. As a straight person, when was the last you worried about being rejected for being straight? Pride allowed them to see that tens of thousands of other people love them, even if their blood does not.

Point well stated. I may just go to the event next year!!

26-06-2017 07:52AM

For me it was a brilliant fantastic day, and I am very grateful to all those who organised it. Growing up back in the darker days of the 80s I never dreamed I'd see days like that. It was really moving when I was at the bridge crossing over the Liffey and looking back up the hill at the enormous crowd coming along behind. To be able to walk proudly, happily and safely through one of the tougher parts of the city and with the Taoiseach of the day in the parade as well was just amazing. I wish I could send a picture of that back to my own shy, scared 15 year old self, and tell him that some day being gay will be something to be celebrated like that and not something to be embarrassed or ashamed about.
I can't send a message back to my younger self in the past, but through Pride we can send that message out to everyone growing up now and in the future. That they are not alone, and that there is a friendly and welcoming community for them too.

Seamai · 26-06-2017 08:14AM

180567 wrote: »

For me it was a brilliant fantastic day, and I am very grateful to all those who organised it. Growing up back in the darker days of the 80s I never dreamed I'd see days like that. It was really moving when I was at the bridge crossing over the Liffey and looking back up the hill at the enormous crowd coming along behind. To be able to walk proudly, happily and safely through one of the tougher parts of the city and with the Taoiseach of the day in the parade as well was just amazing. I wish I could send a picture of that back to my own shy, scared 15 year old self, and tell him that some day being gay will be something to be celebrated like that and not something to be embarrassed or ashamed about.
I can't send a message back to my younger self in the past, but through Pride we can send that message out to everyone growing up now and in the future. That they are not alone, and that there is a friendly and welcoming community for them too.

Having come out in the mid 80's (and aware of my sexuality a lot earlier), I can echo everything you say. Sometimes I find myself asking "is this the same country I grew up in?". This country may not be perfect (is anywhere?) but as a gay man in my early 50's I do appreciate that I am lucky to be living in Ireland and at this point in time.

Is there anybody else who dislikes pride?

Comments