Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 MOD NOTE POST 1*

nice_guy80 · 22-06-2017 07:47AM

dubcat51 wrote: »

Well what I saw of dicksboro u14s their not that big but fast and skillfull.

thats Division 1 - one Kilkenny club

I was watching games in Division 2 and 3
saw about 5 kilkenny clubs playing

babyjesus14 · 22-06-2017 08:22AM

Faugheen wrote: »

Don't talk to me like that. I have a huge interest in Kilkenny hurling at all age levels. You can take your sarcasm and jog on if you can't put a point across without throwing in the whole 'you must be involved so' nonsense. You don't have to be involved to see what's going on.

The last 10 years, overall, the standard of hurlers has gone down. There's plenty of quality hurlers who aren't getting the breaks. To name one - Andy Gaffney. To name a second - Andy's older brother Martin when he was that age.

That's not to say we haven't found any good players, but we had a team with a number of players on the senior panel tonight and with the exception of Scanlon, Donnelly and Leahy, they just didn't look like hurlers. Others like Jason Cleere relied on work rate to get by and I haven't seen anything from him to suggest he's more hurler than hard-working athlete.

Again, the likes of Scanlon are being kept out of the senior XV by hard workers such as Lester Ryan and Wally.

The underage thing has been done by others in this thread, I've little more to add other than the quality hurlers at underage in my club were shunned out.

I'll tell you one story. U12s (not my U12s but this is when it started for this particular crop), the manager tried to make sure his son was given every chance so kept putting him on frees and building a team around him, when there was one player who was clearly head and shoulders above him who was completely shunned out, because God forbid his son would be upstaged.

His parents got sick of it because their lad was getting upset, so they pulled him, and when they moved to U-14s this man (who was no longer manager) used his influence to try and prevent that boy going back to play the game he loved by getting the club to shun him out and come out with this bull**** that because he quit he couldn't just waltz back in. You're either in or your not.

The club folded when the lads older brother (who was a starter for the Kilkenny minors) threatened to walk as well.

This player went on to play for the Kilkenny minors and appeared in many schools finals. Imagine if he didn't love the game so much? He could have fallen through the cracks completely.

Go ahead and tell me there isn't a problem based on that? And based on what other people say here, my club isn't the only one this sort of bull**** happens at.

"You don't have to be involved to see what's going on", seriously please explain to me how so because i might try and apply that to my work life so i don't actually have to go in!

So you have one anecdote about an under 12 and that's your proof that there is "something seriously wrong"? Listen i don't deny that there can be issues within clubs when it comes to nepotism but here's the thing the reason this exists is because of a reluctance of impartial management and mentors to get involved. It's amazing at our AGM when the Chairman canvases the room for the upcoming season for new Mentors the number of people who discover a speck of dirt on their trousers or shoes that need attending to. And thus it's left to the same handful of parents to take the thing forward for another year. And yet come Championship time they'll all be out in force thinking their little Johnny or Jane are the next Richie Hogan or Denise Gaule and the management haven't a clue!

And about Martin Gaffney, i have been watching Martin Gaffney since he was 13. He was the outstanding forward on a Forristal winning team along with James Gannon was an All Ireland winning Minor as an Under 17 and yet when it came to his Minor year in '09 he couldn't make the team because he hadn't progressed. He only made the final because of an injury to Ger Alyward hurled very poorly culminating in driving a 21 yard free wide and was withdrawn. To use him as an example of someone who didn't get the "breaks" is beyond ridiculous. The fact of the matter he is just not good enough for inter county level. His brother Andy is a good prospect who still has another year at under 21 who has been involved the whole way up and will be given ever chance to prove himself!

Oh and don't be so precious.. "don't talk to me like that"

Village87 · 22-06-2017 09:02AM

Nothing on the u21 last to make a breakthrough for the seniors this year Leahy sticks head and shoulders above anyone else on the field, he is our only hope, depressing stuff.. Donnelly is strong and skillful but hard to see him lasting the pace of championship matches in Thurlus and Croker, looks very one paced

Tombo2001 · 22-06-2017 09:15AM

babyjesus14 wrote: »

You clearly know absolutely nothing about it!!! Every club in the county is asked to send their best 3 players with some of the bigger clubs sending in more if they feel they are up to it. It's not "picked on the basis of the Feile weekend", the Under 14's first go together at the end of March. They are split up into North, South and Central regions and are kept on the go the whole Summer until the Tony Forristal and Sonny Walsh squads are picked in August three weeks before the competitions at the end of August.

Just on this....

'send their three best players'.....

This seems to be the way that county development squads are picked up and down the country.

My guess is that (I) this is system is open to abuse; how often is the mentors kid one of the three best players and (ii) you could have a kid who is brilliant at one thing; but not necessarily one of the three best players. For example we have a young kid in the club - not a great tackler, needs more physicality in his game - but he does one thing brilliantly compared to all the rest - which is when he has a shot on goal, he always makes the right choice - go for goal or go for point; and if he goes for goal he almost always puts the ball in the right spot. That's a presence of mind that none of the other kids have. But overall he's not one of the three best players; and he probably wouldn't be one that would be picked for any trial.

Now stepping back from that, whats the message here.

Kilkenny had lets say stronger players coming onto the panel 7/8 years ago than they do today. My guess is that there are a lot 28-30 year olds in the county that are better options than some of the young lads coming through the juveniles - at the time they were coming through against Richie Hogan or TJ Reid - and they might have been overlooked. If I was one of the KK selectors I'd be looking very closely at this group - get a decent player at 28, still has 4 or 5 good years.

kk.man · 22-06-2017 10:06AM

Kilkenny had lets say stronger players coming onto the panel 7/8 years ago than they do today. My guess is that there are a lot 28-30 year olds in the county that are better options than some of the young lads coming through the juveniles - at the time they were coming through against Richie Hogan or TJ Reid - and they might have been overlooked. If I was one of the KK selectors I'd be looking very closely at this group - get a decent player at 28, still has 4 or 5 good years.[/QUOTE]

I agree with your point and see how you came to make it however it is easier said than done. Some of these guys may have lost interest or let themselves go. It also takes a few years to reach peak standard which may have surpassed a 28 year old in terms of fitness, body building, conditioning etc. It was done in the past but it was an exception rather than the rule.

droppingball · 22-06-2017 10:44AM

Liam Blanchfields is struggling, he should be flying in these games if he is to be starting for the seniors. There is potential there but doesn't seem to be sharp enough

Village87 · 22-06-2017 10:45AM

kk.man wrote: »

Kilkenny had lets say stronger players coming onto the panel 7/8 years ago than they do today. My guess is that there are a lot 28-30 year olds in the county that are better options than some of the young lads coming through the juveniles - at the time they were coming through against Richie Hogan or TJ Reid - and they might have been overlooked. If I was one of the KK selectors I'd be looking very closely at this group - get a decent player at 28, still has 4 or 5 good years.

I agree with your point and see how you came to make it however it is easier said than done. Some of these guys may have lost interest or let themselves go. It also takes a few years to reach peak standard which may have surpassed a 28 year old in terms of fitness, body building, conditioning etc. It was done in the past but it was an exception rather than the rule.[/QUOTE]

Pick the best players to play, obviously not been done. Kilkenny cant have gotten to that bad a standard over night

Tombo2001 · 22-06-2017 10:47AM

kk.man wrote: »

Kilkenny had lets say stronger players coming onto the panel 7/8 years ago than they do today. My guess is that there are a lot 28-30 year olds in the county that are better options than some of the young lads coming through the juveniles - at the time they were coming through against Richie Hogan or TJ Reid - and they might have been overlooked. If I was one of the KK selectors I'd be looking very closely at this group - get a decent player at 28, still has 4 or 5 good years.

I agree with your point and see how you came to make it however it is easier said than done. Some of these guys may have lost interest or let themselves go. It also takes a few years to reach peak standard which may have surpassed a 28 year old in terms of fitness, body building, conditioning etc. It was done in the past but it was an exception rather than the rule.[/QUOTE]

But there are bound to be guys who are later developers. Surely in KK (and I'm not from there but I know it pretty well) the club scene is strong enough that there are players who will stand out, but aren't on the county team.

Clearly there is a gap between Senior County and Club. But there's also a gap between Senior County and U21, and that's currently what the feeder is. You wouldn't be starting from scratch with these guys, they would be in pretty good shape.

Ceist_Beag · 22-06-2017 10:51AM

The discussion on underage has been an interesting one. It's all very easy for lads to make general sweeping statements (and there have been some very sweeping statements in here!). There will always be anecdotal stories about good lads getting left out and nepotism - but something tells me this has always been the case. I still think if lads are showing well for their clubs they will get a look in, however it falls back to the clubs moreso than the county board to push for their lads I think personally.
One thing I can say is that from what I have seen (and I would not be someone in the know here so this is very much just my personal opinion for outside), there are a lot of things being down at county level to try and give young lads every chance. This year saw club regional squad sessions being held on the same night as development squads in an effort to get more young lads involved. It is a bit early to comment on these yet but it looks like a step in the right direction.
FWIW I thought the U21s hurled really well in the second half last night and to me they look like a team starting to come together as a unit.

brookville · 22-06-2017 11:44AM

dobbs2210 wrote: »

Eddie Brennan needs to have a serious discussion with Jason Cleere about all these blind alley solo runs that he has a massive habit of going off on. Running off on blind runs losing the ball, getting dispossessed and running balls out over sidelines.

Needs to be irradiated from his game.

A win is a win, home venue for the Leinster final against Wexford should help but Wexford will be a much more clinical side that will not spurn that chances that Westmeath did.

I was disappointed with some of the needless frees we gave away players lunging in high instead of just standing their opponent up.We probably had more skillfull hurlers but they out worked us on many occasions and they drove 3 handy wides in the 2nd half before we pulled away.Leahy made a big difference and getting him along with walsh will be very important for the next day.This isn't the best wexford team of the last few years but there putting up big scores.We have to improve considerably because a win the next day sees us against a northern team so it could be a great chance to get to a final where anything could happen.
Maybe it was nerves last night but I was expecting more from this team or maybe we're to critical and judge them after the final.Home advantage should help and as I said if we get leahy,John walsh and huw lawlor they should all strengthen the team.There's still a few issues to sort out on the team corner back is 1 I'm surprised mullen wasn't tried there.

Topcat32 · 22-06-2017 11:58AM

Perhaps its understandable but there seems to be a pit of panic setting in with Kilkenny supporters

Village87 wrote: »

Nothing on the u21 last to make a breakthrough for the seniors this year Leahy sticks head and shoulders above anyone else on the field, he is our only hope, depressing stuff.. Donnelly is strong and skillful but hard to see him lasting the pace of championship matches in Thurlus and Croker, looks very one paced

So there is nothing to make the breakthrough apart from Leahy or nothing to make the breakthrough?

Topcat32 · 22-06-2017 12:11PM

I thought it was an ok performance from the team last night considering that Jason Cleere and Blanchfield were poor.
Conor Delaney, Pat Lyng, Richie Leahy should be close to starting for the seniors in addition to Cleere and Blanchfield. Sean Morrissey should be on the match day panel. I think Mullen, Scanlon, Tommy Walsh, Ryan, Donnelly are good prospects but need a lot of work physically to get them up to senior intercounty level. Mullen in particular looks very light but is possibly the most natural hurler in the backs that Kilkenny under 21s have.
Its interesting that there has been so much talk about under 14 squads with reference to the level of skill of the team last night, people seem to have forgotten that many of these players won a minor all Ireland 3 years ago playing very good hurling in the semi-final and final.

usualstripes · 22-06-2017 12:14PM

Topcat32 wrote: »

Perhaps its understandable but there seems to be a pit of panic setting in with Kilkenny supporters

So there is nothing to make the breakthrough apart from Leahy or nothing to make the breakthrough?

Leahy, lyng, donnelly, cleere, delaney, Tommy walsh will make it. How they progress at senior championship level we will see but they have to be given a chance

babyjesus14 · 22-06-2017 12:27PM

Tombo2001 wrote: »

Just on this....

'send their three best players'.....

This seems to be the way that county development squads are picked up and down the country.

My guess is that (I) this is system is open to abuse; how often is the mentors kid one of the three best players and (ii) you could have a kid who is brilliant at one thing; but not necessarily one of the three best players. For example we have a young kid in the club - not a great tackler, needs more physicality in his game - but he does one thing brilliantly compared to all the rest - which is when he has a shot on goal, he always makes the right choice - go for goal or go for point; and if he goes for goal he almost always puts the ball in the right spot. That's a presence of mind that none of the other kids have. But overall he's not one of the three best players; and he probably wouldn't be one that would be picked for any trial.

Now stepping back from that, whats the message here.

Kilkenny had lets say stronger players coming onto the panel 7/8 years ago than they do today. My guess is that there are a lot 28-30 year olds in the county that are better options than some of the young lads coming through the juveniles - at the time they were coming through against Richie Hogan or TJ Reid - and they might have been overlooked. If I was one of the KK selectors I'd be looking very closely at this group - get a decent player at 28, still has 4 or 5 good years.

Wouldn't claim for a minute that the system is bomb proof and have no doubt it's been abused by certain people. But the three player per club is not a set in stone rule. Last year a young lad from a club in south Kilkenny who was new to the parish wasn't part of the initial three sent into the under 14's but after the club played a couple of league matches they realised this young lad might have something and contacted the manager of the south group who said to send to the next session. The chap ended up making the team.. he has since moved back to Dublin so that turned out to be a waste of money!:D

In fairness one thing BC couldn't be accused of is being ageist, we have had Shane Prendergast(29) and JJ Farrell(28) make their Championship debuts in the last two seasons. TJ and Richie were only one of probably 90 players looked at when they first joined the squads, if you think they're are 28 year olds out there that are being missed name them because i can't say i know of any.

Noddy33 · 22-06-2017 12:43PM

Shaky nervous performance but think thats understandable given what happened last year so management and players will be glad to just come away with victory but better shooting from Westmeath and it could have been a different story. Interesting to see Michael Lawlor from Conahy Shamrocks a teacher based in Mullingar working as the Westmeath team trainer and fair play to him as he had the WM players well drilled.

Brennan-will be dissappointed with the goal and thought he could have varied the puck outs better but still a fantastic keeper in the making.
Cody- Solid without being spectacular. Similar to Cleere goes on these ranging(does the same for club) solo runs up the field with very little end product but he is a great athlete but should stick to his defensive duties more.
Delaney-Played well and clear his lines when required. Like to see him be used in senior set up more
Burke- Started well but gave away three bad frees and was suprised he wasnt hauled off straight away after the 3rd free as he was already on a yellow card
Doheny- Was the spare man and picked up alot of ball but made poor use of possession
Cleere- Does some great things but follows up with some real poor things. Needs to tidy up on the basics of CB position but when in full flow is a joy to watch
T Walsh- reasonable performance but still waiting for him to explode on the scene and deliver on the potential he showed at underage
Lyng- Worked his socks off and got two great scores
Scanlon- Real clever player. Needs to stay injury free as he is crucial link player for the team
Murphy-Was good on the frees and got his goal but if Im honest I was expecting more
Donnelly-His second score was fantastic score. He made alot of hooks and blocks but also left a couple of scores out there.Genuinely think he could be a good ball winning option for the seniors
Morrissey- Was very impressed with him
S Walsh- Will be dissappointed as didnt have a great game. Will struggle to hold place on team when injured players return
Blanchfield-Just not happening for him. Looked a bit suprised to be taken off. Is he just over hurled and in need of a break
Ryan- Far better when he out the field when he can open up the legs and run at defenders. Himself and Murphy should have been swapped early in the game in my opinion
Subs-Kenny showed well when he came on. Leahy is just a class act. Hamstring seemed to be holding up well so hopefully bodes well for seniors as I think he has to start in the qualifiers game if fully fit

babyjesus14 · 22-06-2017 12:59PM

Topcat32 wrote: »

I thought it was an ok performance from the team last night considering that Jason Cleere and Blanchfield were poor.
Conor Delaney, Pat Lyng, Richie Leahy should be close to starting for the seniors in addition to Cleere and Blanchfield. Sean Morrissey should be on the match day panel. I think Mullen, Scanlon, Tommy Walsh, Ryan, Donnelly are good prospects but need a lot of work physically to get them up to senior intercounty level. Mullen in particular looks very light but is possibly the most natural hurler in the backs that Kilkenny under 21s have.
Its interesting that there has been so much talk about under 14 squads with reference to the level of skill of the team last night, people seem to have forgotten that many of these players won a minor all Ireland 3 years ago playing very good hurling in the semi-final and final.

Completely agree with you about Darren Mullen, an absolutely super hurler. Unfortunately Darren seems to be the same height and weight at 19 as he was when he first came on my radar as a 15 year old.

mountgomery burns · 22-06-2017 06:25PM

Village87 wrote: »

Pick the best players to play, obviously not been done. Kilkenny cant have gotten to that bad a standard over night

But it didn't happen overnight. 5 years ago Kilkenny got hammered by Galway,
and they still bounced back to win 3 all irelands to their eternal credit but in that time they have since lost to Dublin, Cork, Tipp and Wexford and drawn with Galway x2,Dublin, Waterford x2 and Tipp. Thats 11 games in those 6 years thay they did not win, compared to the previous 6 years where they won 5/6 all irelands with only 1 game lost.

They were never going to maintain the standard, nobody could, and even though its taken a long time to finally come right back into "the pack", that happened last September.

Mankbag · 22-06-2017 07:01PM

Village87 wrote: »

I agree with your point and see how you came to make it however it is easier said than done. Some of these guys may have lost interest or let themselves go. It also takes a few years to reach peak standard which may have surpassed a 28 year old in terms of fitness, body building, conditioning etc. It was done in the past but it was an exception rather than the rule.

Pick the best players to play, obviously not been done. Kilkenny cant have gotten to that bad a standard over night[/QUOTE]

Great idea to pick the best players. I'm amazed that Cody hasn't thought of it. You really should have a word with him.

Out of interest, who do you consider these "best players" to be?

Comerman · 22-06-2017 10:24PM

Did John Power drop himself from the squad?

babyjesus14 · 22-06-2017 10:42PM

Comerman wrote: »

Did John Power drop himself from the squad?

Apparently so.

Topcat32 · 23-06-2017 02:22AM

mountgomery burns wrote: »

But it didn't happen overnight. 5 years ago Kilkenny got hammered by Galway,
and they still bounced back to win 3 all irelands to their eternal credit but in that time they have since lost to Dublin, Cork, Tipp and Wexford and drawn with Galway x2,Dublin, Waterford x2 and Tipp. Thats 11 games in those 6 years thay they did not win, compared to the previous 6 years where they won 5/6 all irelands with only 1 game lost.

They were never going to maintain the standard, nobody could, and even though its taken a long time to finally come right back into "the pack", that happened last September.

Its a fair point and I certainly can't remember a county who has lost so many class intercounty players to retirement over a 4 to 5 year period, certainly not a county that has been challenging for all irelands over that time, reaching 3 all irelands in a row winning 2 of them would be a lot of counties dream come true. Even in the one that we lost by a lot we werent completely out of it until the last 15 to 20 minutes.

dastardly00 · 23-06-2017 10:18AM

The latest article from Jackie is a great read.
He talks about that match against Tipp.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/jackie-tyrrell-there-is-one-game-in-my-career-i-will-never-forget-1.3129683

Village87 · 23-06-2017 12:22PM

Jackie writes a very good article for the Times every Friday, goes into great detail on the mental aspect leading up to a game.

jeff bingham · 23-06-2017 01:49PM

He had a great one awhile ago about his mental preparation in the week leading to an all Ireland final,Not sure if it was mentioned here.
Richie Power also has a decent weekly column on a Wednesday I think with RTE sport

tbiggertycome · 23-06-2017 06:26PM

Again the amount of pessimism and running players down on here was hard to read on Wednesday night and Thursday and eventually we had some posters a bit more reasoned.

I don't understand why so many want to run down players? I don't think they should be above criticism or anything and there were a lot of poor performances in the first half but most players redeemed themselves with a much stronger showing in the second half. Coming out with sweeping statements that this or that lad "will never make it" or "isn't up to the standard". These are young guys trying to find their feet at senior and U21 intercounty level. Personally I think 16 of the U21 panel have what it takes to eventually play senior for us. Will they all? They definitely won't thing happen injury beer girls jobs etc but many of them will and a good lot of them will become very good players for us over the next few years.

There're a few reasons I feel the performances in first half the other night weren't what we all hoped we'd see.

1. Westmeath - were very physical, as is their right and they had belief from last year and they tore into us without fear. Their intensity caused us problems as any very intense display will cause any team problems.

2. Nerves - Our lads whether they realise it or not, would have been nervous to some degree after last years horrific display and niggling thought of it being repeated in the back of their mind. They would have been anxious and I think this led to a lot of the poor first touches in the first half.

3. Seniors - There're 8 of our lads in with the seniors which leads to less time for the U21s to train together as a cohesive unit and could have led to some of the poor decisions and passes given in the game.

From what I heard about the halftime, a few of the lads said a few words etc.. until Richie Doyle couldn't take it anymore and he tore into them, he questioned them and queried their desire to actually win this one. I believe this woke them up and they snapped out of it, we saw a different team in the second half. I would be unhappy with the first half and pleased with the second half over all. If you told be before this game that we'd beat them by 10 points and miss another 2 gilt edge goal chances I would have been very happy.

Give these lads time and don't be so quick to throw them on the compost heap intercounty hurling a lot of them will suprise you and come good.

68deville · 23-06-2017 06:34PM

Topcat32 wrote: »

Its a fair point and I certainly can't remember a county who has lost so many class intercounty players to retirement over a 4 to 5 year period, certainly not a county that has been challenging for all irelands over that time, reaching 3 all irelands in a row winning 2 of them would be a lot of counties dream come true. Even in the one that we lost by a lot we werent completely out of it until the last 15 to 20 minutes.

The Offaly team of the 90s who had some serious hurlers and we're always
Contenders for Liam and winners in that same decade suffered the same fate
From 99 onwards when the Dooleys, Troy,kinahan pilkington and Hanamy all
Called time on their careers in a short period of time

letowski · 23-06-2017 07:17PM

Pundit Arena are reporting Mick Fennelly has suffered aa set back with his achilles injury. Did he not play a club game recently? Could be his intercounty days are numbered as a serious achilles injury is no joke, he may have to think about his health long term.

He has probably been the best midfielder since the turn of the century, Kilkenny could do with him back fit.

dastardly00 · 23-06-2017 07:40PM

letowski wrote: »

Pundit Arena are reporting Mick Fennelly has suffered aa set back with his achilles injury. Did he not play a club game recently? Could be his intercounty days are numbered as a serious achilles injury is no joke, he may have to think about his health long term.

He has probably been the best midfielder since the turn of the century, Kilkenny could do with him back fit.

That's pretty laughable from Pundit Arena ... because it's not exactly 'hot off the press' news. The Indo, Times et al. reported about Mick's injury three days ago!

Anyway, to answer your query letowski, Mick played a club game a few weeks before the Wexford match, but got injured in the week of the match.

His days were numbered a few years ago unfortunately due to the seriousness of his back-related injuries. He's my favourite player, but for his sake, I wish he would retire

usualstripes · 24-06-2017 10:09AM

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Again the amount of pessimism and running players down on here was hard to read on Wednesday night and Thursday and eventually we had some posters a bit more reasoned.

I don't understand why so many want to run down players? I don't think they should be above criticism or anything and there were a lot of poor performances in the first half but most players redeemed themselves with a much stronger showing in the second half. Coming out with sweeping statements that this or that lad "will never make it" or "isn't up to the standard". These are young guys trying to find their feet at senior and U21 intercounty level. Personally I think 16 of the U21 panel have what it takes to eventually play senior for us. Will they all? They definitely won't thing happen injury beer girls jobs etc but many of them will and a good lot of them will become very good players for us over the next few years.

There're a few reasons I feel the performances in first half the other night weren't what we all hoped we'd see.

1. Westmeath - were very physical, as is their right and they had belief from last year and they tore into us without fear. Their intensity caused us problems as any very intense display will cause any team problems.

2. Nerves - Our lads whether they realise it or not, would have been nervous to some degree after last years horrific display and niggling thought of it being repeated in the back of their mind. They would have been anxious and I think this led to a lot of the poor first touches in the first half.

3. Seniors - There're 8 of our lads in with the seniors which leads to less time for the U21s to train together as a cohesive unit and could have led to some of the poor decisions and passes given in the game.

From what I heard about the halftime, a few of the lads said a few words etc.. until Richie Doyle couldn't take it anymore and he tore into them, he questioned them and queried their desire to actually win this one. I believe this woke them up and they snapped out of it, we saw a different team in the second half. I would be unhappy with the first half and pleased with the second half over all. If you told be before this game that we'd beat them by 10 points and miss another 2 gilt edge goal chances I would have been very happy.

Give these lads time and don't be so quick to throw them on the compost heap intercounty hurling a lot of them will suprise you and come good.

Decent post.
Everyone that posts here knows we have had incredible success over the last 16 years. Because we have had serious players who continued for years and won all Irelands we don't have any right to assume we will beat all before us.
Put that westmeath team up against limerick, tipp or wexford and they would account for themselves well.
Yes they missed a lot of scores but if we can get over the line v wexford it gives us great momentum and this will translate to the senior set up.
We will know our opponents for the qualifiers monday and it's win or bust from there.
I understand mick fennelly probably won't start but there is a chance he will play some part.
Leahys form and recovery from injury will also help our cause.
If we could just structure our defensive lines correctly as below give us every chance.

Murphy
Murphy
Joyce
Fogarty
Padraig
Cleere
Buckley
Lester
Deegan
Walter
TJ
Leahy
Aylward
Colin
Hogan

Mick fennelly, bolger, Billy ryan could all get game time and a possible inclusion of donnelly.
Richie hogan and walter could be moved out at different times around midfield.

Dionysis · 24-06-2017 10:43AM

A guy from Cork who knows his hurling said to me that he was surprised with the U-21 KK team that played Dublin and Westmeath and said that we'll be down at senior level for awhile. He was surprised with the poor touch they had. He's seen them in both games and commented that limerick Tipp Clare or Galway would take the easily enough but didn't know enough about Wexford. I was a bit surprised as i would have thought that the ability is in the players but that the management, drive of the players and general desire to win is lacking in that side. This guy rightly called Cork having a dry period from as far back as early 00's as he coached underage and could see nothing coming through.

Which leads me to think, are we wishfully glossing over significant problems at underage in KK and making by these U-21s out to be better players than they actually are?

Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 **MOD NOTE POST 1***

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Kilkenny GAA Thread Part 2 MOD NOTE POST 1*