Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

21-06-2017 08:49PM

Joebrosan wrote: »

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Bit last minute to be introducing these with the game on Saturday. Hope the players know about these and POM needs to get in the refs ear early about the general muppetry.

vetinari · 21-06-2017 08:49PM

wow, most of the team is fine but no Itoje???
From what I've seen in the warm up games, he's been playing well enough.

Tigerandahalf · 21-06-2017 08:49PM

Itoje in fairness hasn't been brilliant thus far. Maybe being dropped will spur him on. He was also wiped out by Ire in Dublin.

I hope POM goes well but I would worry about his lack of pace and ability to get around the field. A slow set piece game will suit him.

It looks like Gatland has forced Hansen's hand and forced him to drop his first choice wingers and then Gatland himself picked 2 guys who wouldn't have been expected to start.

I hope it is a good game now. The series needs the Lions to win the first test.

Buer · 21-06-2017 08:50PM

bucsfan wrote: »

Well! I had POM, Warburton and Stander in my back row. So even though I got it very wrong on Stander I'm fairly happy. Definitely didn't have George... I don't think AWJ/Kruis is exactly a shocking 2nd row, both are clearly in the top few players in those positions.

Back during the 6N I went for a pack of:

McGrath, Owens, Furlong, Launchbury, AWJ, Itoje, Warburton, Vunipola.

Not the worst effort given the squad hadn't even been named and Kruis was still injured.

AWJ and Kruis is a top class selection. Just surprised they didn't go with Itoje. I wonder is there any chance of bringing both Itoje and Warburton on in the back row and trying to lift the pace on guys like Read for the final 20.

spock. · 21-06-2017 08:52PM

thebaz wrote:

why not Itoje and AWJ .

Because Kruis has been brillant and was always going to start.

yosser hughes · 21-06-2017 08:54PM

I always expected Itoje to be used as an impact. What really surprises me is Daly and to a lesser extent Williams. I'm very worried about their defence.

jr86 · 21-06-2017 08:54PM

It's probably a little bit lost amongst the main talking points, but I have to say I'm delighted for Teo, he's been super all tour and in one of the "weaker" positions in terms of candidates hes more than stood up and been counted

Funnily enough 4 of the English starters actually barely started a game in the 6n (jones often preferred to start marler). Granted kruis was injured.

jr86 · 21-06-2017 08:59PM

spock. wrote: »

Because Kruis has been brillant and was always going to start.

Probably the player of the series

You'd scarcely believe he was about 5th in the English pecking order 2 years ago. And that was even before itoje made his international bow

I can see him getting the england captaincy gig at this stage (or at least vice capt to farrell) its OT apologies but Hartley has no business starting a game again as long as George is fit and with robshaw to come back itoje will likely keep the main other contender launchbury out of the side.

Tigerandahalf · 21-06-2017 08:59PM

Some man joebrosan. Registered today and already has 39 posts.

Presume it must be some bot virus.

D14Rugby · 21-06-2017 09:05PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

If AWJ and POM both go off around 60 minutes in, who takes over as captain? Warburton is the only forward with previous lions experience too.

Captain doesn't have to be a forward but you'd still have players there like Kruis, Itoje, stander(assuming he was next in line), Murray, farrell. All those would be more than capable of being captain.
Also he's not, there's vunipola, O'brien, Faletau, AWJ in the squad then Cole, Tipuric, Best not in the squad

21-06-2017 09:24PM

Short turnaround for Daly and Williams?

stephen_n · 21-06-2017 09:25PM

Itoje is a superb talent as a ball carrier, great in the lineouts and possibly very powerful in the set piece (who knows?). His ruck work is pretty abysmal though, a lot of the time he comes in high to clear out and has little effect, plus he's prone to complete brain farts. I'd imagine AWJ is in there for his work rate.

.ak · 21-06-2017 10:04PM

Wow, some massive calls there.

Daly and Williams deserve their spots, but they only played yesterday!! Halfpenny has found a bit of form and I thought he looked really good against Maori. His goal kicking has probably been the best of the 3 lads too.

Centres no real surprise but those wingers won't see any ball.

Farrell/Sexton was always going to be 50/50 but I thought with the Saders and Maori games under his belt and looking really good in both that Sexton would shade it, but as Buer said when the majority of the coaches are English/your dad you're going to get picked over the other guy.

Back row pretty much played themselves into contention, they've all been stellar.

I think not starting itoje in the pack is crazy. Not because he deserves it, but because kruise and AWJ is a slow ass combo. Those boys will get skinned at some point - to answer your question Buer: no, itoje will not come in for a backrower. AWJ and Kruise doing the 80? Not a chance.

No surprises elsewhere.

It's a good team, I really like it bar I think farrell is a bit overrated by the management, I think sexton would work better with that back three. But the back three are picked on merit and it looks like a team setup for counters.

My only real gripe is that it really looks like the coaching staff couldn't decide on the backline; in regards to the tour, that is an experimental backline. It looks confused to me. It's too late to be trying things now. They should've gone for the backline they had against Maori with the exception of north and built on that.

There's a slight air of desperateness from that back three selection, but I suppose that's the position they're in. So many backs have let them down.

.ak · 21-06-2017 10:08PM

thomond2006 wrote: »

Halfpenny played a lot on the wing years ago.

Watching old clips of him you forget how quick he was. He was unbelievable quick over 20m.

He ain't that quick no more.

.ak · 21-06-2017 10:09PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

No Standar ???

He's been poor, fair call.

razorblunt · 21-06-2017 10:12PM

I think Warburton doesn't deserve to be on the bench at all, Stander while not hitting the heights would cover 6 and 8. Tipuric too is a much better impact player from the bench and his legs could be vital in the latter stages.

I think the backline could do with someone like Payne to come on with a cool head too if it gets tight (IF!!!) in the closing stages.

.ak · 21-06-2017 10:14PM

Warburton has been decent, technically very good at the breakdown, and good decision making, plus has loads of experience. Can play 6 or 7 equally well. He completely deserves his spot.

OldRio · 21-06-2017 10:26PM

Warburton very luck to be on bench. Gatland was never going to drop him completely.

bilston · 21-06-2017 10:31PM

I'm happy with the selection...one exception...like many I'm really surprised that Itoje doesn't start. That Saracens combo of George, Kruis and Itoje has been a well oiled machine to date. I'm a big fan of AWJ's but I don't think he has got going so far.

Also interesting that POM still skippers even with AWJ starting.

Delighted for O'Mahony and all the Irish guys.

FWIW here's the breakdown by country
England 7 (2)
Ireland 4 (2)
Wales 4 (4)

I'm not sure what that tells us other than the pubs of Edinburgh will be heaving on Saturday morning

AbusesToilets · 21-06-2017 10:35PM

Would have started Itoje, had Henderson on the bench. If not starting HP, I'd have Payne or Joseph on the bench. Agree with starting Sexton

razorblunt · 21-06-2017 10:39PM

bilston wrote: »

I'm happy with the selection...one exception...like many I'm really surprised that Itoje doesn't start. That Saracens combo of George, Kruis and Itoje has been a well oiled machine to date. I'm a big fan of AWJ's but I don't think he has got going so far.

Also interesting that POM still skippers even with AWJ starting.

Delighted for O'Mahony and all the Irish guys.

FWIW here's the breakdown by country
England 7 (2)
Ireland 4 (2)
Wales 4 (4)

I'm not sure what that tells us other than the pubs of Edinburgh will be heaving on Saturday morning

Man, Scottish fans in general know the score, they're main grievance is the likes of Barclay, Watson, Gray (J) missing a call up. Seymour and Laidlaw have done nothing so they can't be expecting much. The more "bandwagon" fans are up in arms though.

thomond2006 · 21-06-2017 11:24PM

If anything the team that goes out against the Hurricanes next Tuesday will know test spots are legitimately up for grabs.

sydthebeat · 21-06-2017 11:33PM

Lions

Pros:
Very much picked on form (apart from itoje)
POM and SOB rampaging together
Back three as good as it gets.
Gatland throws out the stereotype of picking who he knows (apart from itoje)
Freshness, POM, Warburton, SOB and kruis haven't a full battering of a season behind them.
Heavily sarries weighted tight five.
Tadhg Furlong, nuff said...

Cons:
End of draining domestic season
No itoje starting, though perhaps descretion was the better part of valour here.
Williams a possible liability disciplinary wise. (Expect dagg to test him severely in the air)
Light in the back line cover on the bench, if farrell has to go off (which is very possible) then lions only one injury away from a major shuffle

All Blacks

Pros:
Middle of domestic season
Big names back
Form rewarded (ioane, though savea is a big game player)
Ben Smith fit
Aaron Smith being back to good form
Barrett when on form is unplayable

Cons:
How match fit can crotty AND read be?
Big call for reiko, how will he handle the pressure.
No real challenge in the lead in to this game. Last big game was in November series where they didn't excel.
Barrett under pressure is flaky

I think all Blacks to win by 5 points, 25-20

Ardillaun · 21-06-2017 11:40PM

I'd be happier with Itoje starting. If their tight five are dominant early on, we are definitely toast. Otherwise, I like the Daly and Te'o picks. Let's hope Daly wakes up at last.

With the benefit of hindsight, does anyone think Mike Brown should have made the trip? I'm not a fan but nobody has really sparkled back there.

Christy42 · 21-06-2017 11:54PM

Ardillaun wrote: »

I'd be happier with Itoje starting. If their tight five are dominant early on, we are definitely toast. Otherwise, I like the Daly and Te'o picks. Let's hope Daly wakes up at last.

With the benefit of hindsight, does anyone think Mike Brown should have made the trip? I'm not a fan but nobody has really sparkled back there.

Potentially but even now would consider him a long shot to have sparked in NZ after a poor season.

leakyboots · 22-06-2017 12:36AM

Delighted (and a bit surprised) with that team. POM a deserving captain, think he's captained every side he's played for, the right man for the coal face that this game will be.

Big call on North and Halfpenny I wasn't expecting, Itoje... I see the logic, keep it tight and bring him on with a half hour... I just hope it won't be too late. Right call on Sexton, hasn't earned it but will have a role to play off the bench.. I think Stander should be on the bench instead of Warburton, more oomph with him, Warburton starts or not at all for me.

I don't think the Lions will be afraid of that NZ pack at all (fitness doubts about one or two on their team or players returning after absences) and will keep it tight, lads it'll be some battle. Hopefully the backs will click, they're there or there abouts the whole tour as it's worn on - I think someone on the radio this evening made the point that the Lions are pretty battle hardened whereas NZ aren't particularly, this is the test to do them.

Asus X540L · 22-06-2017 01:53AM

Liam Williams is the main surprise.

Half penny has been solid and hasn't missed a kick! 11/11 I think. Farrell hasn't been great off the tee

CatFromHue · 22-06-2017 03:44AM

How often has SBW played at 13?

I didn't think much so that could be an advantage to the Lions

swiwi_ · 22-06-2017 05:14AM

CatFromHue wrote: »

How often has SBW played at 13?

I didn't think much so that could be an advantage to the Lions

I'm going to break this news gently, so brace yourself CFH.

He's playing 12.

#awkward

pickarooney · 22-06-2017 05:32AM

sydthebeat wrote: »

Lions

Pros:
Very much picked on form (apart from itoje)
POM and SOB rampaging together
Back three as good as it gets.
Gatland throws out the stereotype of picking who he knows (apart from itoje)
Freshness, POM, Warburton, SOB and kruis haven't a full battering of a season behind them.
Heavily sarries weighted tight five.
Tadhg Furlong, nuff said...

Cons:
End of draining domestic season
No itoje starting, though perhaps descretion was the better part of valour here.
Williams a possible liability disciplinary wise. (Expect dagg to test him severely in the air)
Light in the back line cover on the bench, if farrell has to go off (which is very possible) then lions only one injury away from a major shuffle

All Blacks

Pros:
Middle of domestic season
Big names back
Form rewarded (ioane, though savea is a big game player)
Ben Smith fit
Aaron Smith being back to good form
Barrett when on form is unplayable

Cons:
How match fit can crotty AND read be?
Big call for reiko, how will he handle the pressure.
No real challenge in the lead in to this game. Last big game was in November series where they didn't excel.
Barrett under pressure is flaky

I think all Blacks to win by 5 points, 25-20

This is Ioane's third game against the Lions, right?

Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

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