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Interesting article about Travellers by a Traveller

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Comments

  • #92
    Cienciano
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,134 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    50% of travellers die before their 39th birthday. 10% of traveller children die before the age of two, compared to just 1% of the general population. 70% of us die before our 59th birthday.Only 3% of us live passed the age of 65. Less than 13% of us finish secondary school compared to 93% of the general population. Less than 1% of us go on to third level education, and more than 70% of traveller children live in families where the mother has no formal education at all.
    I don't understand how this is somehow due to prejudice from the settled community.


  • #93
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Eevs98 wrote: »

    The TPI estimates that in total approximately 7% of the travelling community partakes in, or benefits from crime, that statistic includes those who haven't been convicted or pursued,
    and the families of those who have been convicted that likely lived off the proceeds (which in the case of children is hardly their fault).

    TPI Questionaire: "do you live off or partake in crime"?
    "No boss" says all but 7% of the respondents.
    TPI Questionaire: "thanks for taking the time"

    Laughable.


  • #94
    Game Face MCGee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭Game Face MCGee


    A friend of mine is a guard in Dun Laoghaire he say about 60% of his time is taken up with dealing with traveler. It all we and good being in the bleeding heart brigade but the facts are the facts, traveler's have none but themselves to blame if people have pre-conceived perception about them.
     I have personally have been robbed by travelers, a business I run was robbed by travelers and a pub I worked in teens  was destroyed by travelers. so yeah I will not be inviting any travelers to my sons birthday party until they, as a community, get their **** together


  • #95
    blue note
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,714 ✭✭✭blue note


    I think that's a great article and should give people an insight into why the travelling community keep themselves separate from the society. At 4 years old she was turned away from her friends birthday party because she was a traveller, this reduced her mother to tears. A teacher refused to teach her and then told her that realistically, she wasn't going to do secondary school. This girl is a huge exception to the norm at this point in that she's going on with a conventional education in spite of the blocks being put in her way already. Fair enough she wasn't prevented from continuing, but you can't ignore the fact that she was discouraged. Compared to settled people who pretty much would only be allowed to not finish secondary school in exceptional circumstances.

    But, the majority of travellers are leaving school while still children, having never been accepted into wider society and then we're wondering why so many of them don't behave like the rest of us? It's because of the internal traveller environment they've grown up in, but also the wider environment which treated them like second class citizens all along.

    It's all well and good saying that reconciliation needs to be found in the middle with both communities reaching out. But let's be honest - this isn't happening. As a result, children are growing up with a fraction of the chance in life that settled children would have. While it is the fault of both the settled and travelling community that this is the case, there is regardless a responsibility of society to improve the lot for these children. Number 1 on this list for me would be to educate them. They have tiny chances of getting a job after school and we're surprised that so many of them turn to crime? I'd love to see a real national strategy to get the community educated properly. That would be a start to bridging the gap between the communities.


  • #96
    topper75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    Someone had a though-provoking thread on here lately seeking to understand how left wing politics could be so supportive of Islamic immigration when so many causes championed by the left are in direct contrast to the teachings of islam.

    Another mystery of left-wing thinking is how they championed the whole 'ethnic' status thing for travelling folk here. That will be shown in time to be a great Fine Gael mistake (ironically not a left wing outfit traditionally but have been poisoned by fashionable PC nonsense). Surely promotions of such distinctions are in direct contrast to the principles of republicanism and socialism. A more understanding government down the line will hopefully acknowledge and correct this mistake.

    I try to take people as I find them. I hate blind injustices such as the ones described in the story about teachers, but I won't be anybody's fool by the same token. Meet everyone half way but exercise caution.


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  • #97
    VinLieger
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,962 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    blue note wrote: »
    I think that's a great article and should give people an insight into why the travelling community keep themselves separate from the society. At 4 years old she was turned away from her friends birthday party because she was a traveller, this reduced her mother to tears. A teacher refused to teach her and then told her that realistically, she wasn't going to do secondary school.

    Tha vast majority of travelers girls are taken out of school by their parents to help their mothers take care of the men in the family. They arent taken out of school because the school discriminates against them. The teacher assuming she wouldn't go to secondary school was basing that assumption on verifiable facts, facts which the writer themselves admit are true further in the article.
    blue note wrote: »
    This girl is a huge exception to the norm at this point in that she's going on with a conventional education in spite of the blocks being put in her way already. Fair enough she wasn't prevented from continuing, but you can't ignore the fact that she was discouraged. Compared to settled people who pretty much would only be allowed to not finish secondary school in exceptional circumstances.

    She wasn't discouraged it was simply pointed out to her that in all likelihood she wouldn't be allowed go to secondary school by her parents
    blue note wrote: »
    But, the majority of travellers are leaving school while still children, having never been accepted into wider society and then we're wondering why so many of them don't behave like the rest of us? It's because of the internal traveller environment they've grown up in, but also the wider environment which treated them like second class citizens all along.

    Nope its because they are removed from schools by their parents, nothing more.
    blue note wrote: »
    It's all well and good saying that reconciliation needs to be found in the middle with both communities reaching out. But let's be honest - this isn't happening. As a result, children are growing up with a fraction of the chance in life that settled children would have.

    Yep and its nothing to do with discrimination its to do once again with their parents choice to remove them from school at such a young age
    blue note wrote: »
    While it is the fault of both the settled and travelling community that this is the case, there is regardless a responsibility of society to improve the lot for these children. Number 1 on this list for me would be to educate them. They have tiny chances of getting a job after school and we're surprised that so many of them turn to crime? I'd love to see a real national strategy to get the community educated properly. That would be a start to bridging the gap between the communities.

    Again its nobodies fault but the traveling community that they are vastly under educated versus the rest of the country, they remove their children from schools and then complain about their lack of education........


  • #98
    topper75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    blue note wrote: »
    It's all well and good saying that reconciliation needs to be found in the middle with both communities reaching out. But let's be honest - this isn't happening. As a result, children are growing up with a fraction of the chance in life that settled children would have. While it is the fault of both the settled and travelling community that this is the case, there is regardless a responsibility of society to improve the lot for these children. Number 1 on this list for me would be to educate them. They have tiny chances of getting a job after school and we're surprised that so many of them turn to crime? I'd love to see a real national strategy to get the community educated properly. That would be a start to bridging the gap between the communities.

    I certainly endorse your sentiments about the 2-way effort requirement.

    There are practical issues around educ though as the curriculum content is often alien to the traveller world. However having a separate syllabus in any subject would be too divisive - so even though I would agree with you that it is key, it is a hard nut to crack.


  • #99
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Eevs98 wrote: »
    Personal anecdote: "I saw a traveller abuse a horse, therefore abusing horses is part of their culture."

    Yet actual travellers reject the notion that it's cultural and work to counter it and call it vile and inhumane, and tell those travellers that do it to stop using culture as a cop out. That's what I mean by personal anecdotes. They are only a surface indicator, and leave the person with a poor understanding of reality.


    Is that the Smithfield horse market you are referring to?


  • #100
    benjamin d
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 921 ✭✭✭benjamin d


    blue note wrote: »
    While it is the fault of both the settled and travelling community that this is the case, there is regardless a responsibility of society to improve the lot for these children. Number 1 on this list for me would be to educate them. They have tiny chances of getting a job after school and we're surprised that so many of them turn to crime? I'd love to see a real national strategy to get the community educated properly. That would be a start to bridging the gap between the communities.

    Education is compulsory up to a certain age in this country. We have a very sophisticated social welfare system that is designed in part to enable those less fortunate to educate their children. We have book grants, back to school allowances, clothing allowance, automatic children's allowance, and numerous other handouts/assistance to enable every child to receive an education. One thing and one thing alone is holding back traveller education: traveller parents.
    When education not only isn't valued, but is openly derided and ridiculed, there is no hope for the group responsible to drag themselves out of their crappy place in society.
    I was at a confirmation a number of years ago where the traveller kids were attempting to read the pamphlets down the back of the church to each other. The parents loudly and emphatically ridiculed them until they stopped, embarrassed. "Look at dem eegits tryin' to read, what would ye be at that for" etc. It was saddening.

    I can also vouch for the people elsewhere in the thread who have experience of traveller children being trained to shoplift and provide distractions for parents to shoplift. By the time many traveller children reach the age of four or five it's already too late for them to be integrated into civil society, which is a terrible thing to happen but the blame lies with the parents. I know they've been brought up the same but it doesn't take a genius or brave pioneer to decide that they don't want that life for their children.


  • #101
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,394 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Eevs98 wrote: »
    It's not my estimate, it's a figure reached by the TPI (traveller prisoner initiative), after years of comprehensive research and studies. So your anecdotal claims don't really stand up in the face of that to be honest. Also all the figures show that travellers are actually more likely to be sentenced for a crime than a settled person, so the whole impunity thing doesn't really wash with the facts either.

    I can't find that research or those studies. Would you have a link to them?


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  • #102
    Sleepy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,548 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    The social funding of halting sites is a huge mistake imo. If travellers want to avail of social services, they need to be part of society and that entails living among it, not insisting that the state support their nomadic lifestyle choice.

    The issue of large scale social housing projects (Moyross, Ballymun, Jobstown etc) becoming ghettos isn't exactly a new discovery. Social Housing policy has been to distribute such housing throughout the population for decades. If we want the traveller community to integrate, we need to stop providing the means for those within it to stand apart from it. If they need to be housed by local authorities, it should be on the same basis as anyone else who needs social housing: no separate waiting lists, housing units or halting sites. The majority of travelllers would no doubt oppose this greatly as it'd be stripping them of some of the privileges their "ethnicity" currently afford them.

    If they want to maintain their nomadic lifestyle, they should fund it themselves in the same way the settled community do. Should I prefer to summer near the beaches of Wexford I can buy a mobile home in Courtown. The state isn't going to buy one for me, pay rent on the caravan park it's situated in for me (or more accurately build a caravan park, charge me a nominal rent for my pitch and then turn a blind eye when I refuse to pay that nominal rent). If they can't afford that lifestlyle based on taxable earnings, tough. I don't have a holiday home (or even the camper van I've dreamt about for years) because I can't afford one. It's not society's responsibility to pay for my desires even if it's been part of my family culture to holiday in that part of Wexford every summer for six generations.


  • #103
    tomofson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,651 ✭✭✭tomofson


    RoboRat wrote: »
    My parents raised me to treat everyone equally and there was never any discrimination against travelers. I had few dealings with travelers bar when they would call to the door looking for food or to sharpen knives/ shears etc.

    As I grew up I noticed a distinct prejudice against travelers and it made me feel uncomfortable. I had never been wronged by them so I felt it was unjust.

    When I turned 18, I went to college and got a job doing the door in a nightclub. A few travelers came up one night and they were allowed in, they were told there was to be no trouble... 15 mins later it kicked off and they were thrown out, they came back with 14 others and proceeded to threaten us with axe handles, bushman saws, you name it. Fair enough, a few bad apples.

    Then a friend of mine was beaten up badly by a group of travelers, he was pissed and by himself going home. Again, a few bad apples.

    A group set up camp on a friend of my fathers and wouldn't move unless he paid them off. Again, a few bad apples.

    Another group set up camp at a local beauty spot and ruined it, crap all over the place. Again, a few bad apples.

    A load of houses were robbed in my estate and the thieves were caught, they were travelers. Again, a few bad apples.

    When my wife went into have our first child, we ended up in a maternity room with travelers. They proceeded to kick a swiss ball around, landing on a new born baby. When I told them to cut it out, I was threatened. The kids tried to take the wallet out of my visiting mothers handbag from behind the curtain. Again, a few bad apples.

    There have also been other instances of shoplifting & intimidation that I have witnessed and I slowly began to become prejudiced myself. My problem is that I never had a positive experience with a traveler and this has affected my view of them.

    I am not saying that they are all bad but when you only have negative experiences, it shapes your views.

    Perhaps its a viscous circle, they are not treated with respect and therefore have nothing to lose and don't show respect or try to be a part of the community because they feel they have already been judged.

    I am trying to keep my mind open and judge everyone equally but its very hard... it's human nature to be defensive when logic says that you should be. I hate that I have become prejudiced but at the same time it is not something that just happened for no reason.

    Similar experiences here, I have had at least a dozen bad experiences with travellers myself, the more minor ones involved just threats and intimidation or stealing... The severe involved violence, I have been attacked at random 3 times in my life and all 3 times by members of the traveller community. One was by a group of traveller teens, this same group went on to attack my sick uncle as he made his way home from a hospital visit, thats what angered me the most... They seem to be raised to pick on the vulnerable and people they know wont fight back or cant.

    They make up something like 0.5% of the population yet nearly everyone you meet has had a bad encounter with them, how many more times are they more likely to become involved in a negative encounter???

    I don't get why certain people are afraid to say this, and why our personal stories don't matter because for me this is all very real and I will try and avoid them for the rest of my life.


  • #104
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    Irish Guitarist wrote: »
    Found a picture of a dead horse that was left to rot by the river that a friend took and posted on Facebook. I'm attaching it but won't embed it so that anyone that doesn't want to see it doesn't have to. This was taken not far from where I live. Unfortunately it's not an uncommon sight there.

    I find it hard not to be prejudiced against a group of people who have this as part of their 'culture'. If they could sort that out and if the member of the family that owns these horses could stop sexually assaulting women I'd stop being 'prejudiced'.


    It would be pretty easy to counter this by posting a photo of all the rubbish on the beach on Dollymount.....or homeless people in tents along the canal.....or the detention centres for asylum seekers down the country....or survivors of institutional abuse marching down kildare street........and say that I'd find it hard not to be prejudiced against a group of people who have this as part of their culture - except that its your culture and my culture that I'd be describing. You are happy to tar all of them with same brush. You happy to have the same done to yourself?


  • #105
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    To be fair I don't think anyone starts off disliking black people. I knew two boys who were black in primary school. One of them was a likable lad and the other was a lot rougher. They would beat the heads off each other when they got together but only one of them caused anyone else any trouble. I used to hang around with the more likable lad during break time.

    That's the last time I ever really associated with a black lad. Over the years I've gotten too much abuse from them, seen them mistreat too many animals and in general cause too much trouble.

    I'm sure they're not all like that but I guarantee you there are more of them out to cause trouble than that aren't. That's a nice article and very well written but she also 'needs to talk' to the many troublemakers who drag their names through the mud. This 'prejudice' didn't just come from nowhere. She mentioned the funeral for the blacks and the discrimination they faced. I think one of the funerals ended up being held here and the attendees did indeed cause a lot of damage in a pub. I remember seeing them outside and noticed the local rapist among their ranks.

    At a certain point judging people isn't prejudice. It's knowing what to expect based on things you've seen happening all your life.

    My eyes have never rolled so far back into my skull


  • #106
    Glenster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,626 ✭✭✭Glenster


    Our life expectancy is 61 years old. Our suicide rate is seven times higher than the general population. 50% of travellers die before their 39th birthday. 10% of traveller children die before the age of two, compared to just 1% of the general population. 70% of us die before our 59th birthday. Only 3% of us live passed the age of 65.

    Interesting statistics.

    If those statistics are true the average age a traveller who lives past 65 (the 3%) can expect to survive to is 528.33333 years old.

    That's taking the maximum possible age of death for all the other groups (ie. everone who dies within the 2-39 age range dies a day before their 39th birthday)

    If we assume an average age of death within the given age ranges then the average age of death of a traveller in the 65+ age group would be 872 years old.


    HOW VERY INTERESTING


  • #107
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    I find it interesting that some of the same posters who threw a complete strop about any debate as to the nature of homosexuality or transgenderism (ignore thread title,
    it's in there)     have no problem tarring "all travellers" with the same brush. Ireland is the only country I know of where people can hold progressive leftist views on gay marriage, unisex bathrooms, 75 gender pronouns, abortion on demand etc but when it comes to travellers can be perfectly happy calling them scum like the best KKK member.


  • #108
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


  • #109
    Glenster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,626 ✭✭✭Glenster


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    And your one.


  • #110
    benjamin d
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 921 ✭✭✭benjamin d


    ....... wrote: »
    The only use of the word "scum" in this thread is in your post.

    Traveller culture shall not be questioned, for all who question it are Nazis.*

    *also applies to most other societal issues of the day - do not question the (self proclaimed) righteous.


  • #111
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


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  • #112
    Lollipops23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭Lollipops23


    professore wrote: »
    I find it interesting that some of the same posters who threw a complete strop about any debate as to the nature of homosexuality or transgenderism (ignore thread title,
    it's in there)     have no problem tarring "all travellers" with the same brush.

    Because everyone I know has had overwhelmingly negative experiences with the travelling community, and minimal negative ones with members of the LGTBQ communities.....


  • #113
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Cienciano wrote: »
    I don't understand how this is somehow due to prejudice from the settled community.

    Is some of it not right there in the OP? The extract you quoted refers to, amongst other things, education...and the writer in the OP refers to her experience of prejudice in education, a teacher refusing to teach her etc.


  • #114
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    Lollipops23 wrote: »
    Because everyone I know has had overwhelmingly negative experiences with the travelling community, and minimal negative ones with members of the LGTBQ communities.....

    So it's OK for people living the US who have had overwhelmingly negative experiences with the black hispanic community to be racist?

    -- "When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. ... They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people," Trump said in his announcement speech. June 2015.


  • #115
    Tombo2001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭Tombo2001


    RoboRat wrote: »
    My parents raised me to treat everyone equally and there was never any discrimination against travelers. I had few dealings with travelers bar when they would call to the door looking for food or to sharpen knives/ shears etc.

    As I grew up I noticed a distinct prejudice against travelers and it made me feel uncomfortable. I had never been wronged by them so I felt it was unjust.

    When I turned 18, I went to college and got a job doing the door in a nightclub. A few travelers came up one night and they were allowed in, they were told there was to be no trouble... 15 mins later it kicked off and they were thrown out, they came back with 14 others and proceeded to threaten us with axe handles, bushman saws, you name it. Fair enough, a few bad apples.

    Then a friend of mine was beaten up badly by a group of travelers, he was pissed and by himself going home. Again, a few bad apples.

    A group set up camp on a friend of my fathers and wouldn't move unless he paid them off. Again, a few bad apples.

    Another group set up camp at a local beauty spot and ruined it, crap all over the place. Again, a few bad apples.

    A load of houses were robbed in my estate and the thieves were caught, they were travelers. Again, a few bad apples.

    When my wife went into have our first child, we ended up in a maternity room with travelers. They proceeded to kick a swiss ball around, landing on a new born baby. When I told them to cut it out, I was threatened. The kids tried to take the wallet out of my visiting mothers handbag from behind the curtain. Again, a few bad apples.

    There have also been other instances of shoplifting & intimidation that I have witnessed and I slowly began to become prejudiced myself. My problem is that I never had a positive experience with a traveler and this has affected my view of them.

    I am not saying that they are all bad but when you only have negative experiences, it shapes your views.

    Perhaps its a viscous circle, they are not treated with respect and therefore have nothing to lose and don't show respect or try to be a part of the community because they feel they have already been judged.

    I am trying to keep my mind open and judge everyone equally but its very hard... it's human nature to be defensive when logic says that you should be. I hate that I have become prejudiced but at the same time it is not something that just happened for no reason.


    The counterpoint to this would be if a traveler said
    I started out not being prejudiced against settled people.
    -But then when I was 4 a kid told me to leave a birthday party because I was a traveler
    -And then when I was 6 I was told I couldn't join the local whatever kids sports club because I was a traveler
    -And then when I was 9 the teacher put me sitting in the corner because he didn't want a traveler in the class
    - And then when I was 11 ...

    And so on and so forth....

    And they will say, I have only ever had negative experiences all my life with settled people....

    So they feel they get a raw deal from you....

    And you feel you get a raw deal from them.....

    Where does that bring you to? What do you do with that?


  • #116
    PARlance
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,064 ✭✭✭✭PARlance


    Glenster wrote: »
    Interesting statistics.

    If those statistics are true the average age a traveller who lives past 65 (the 3%) can expect to survive to is 528.33333 years old.

    That's taking the maximum possible age of death for all the other groups (ie. everone who dies within the 2-39 age range dies a day before their 39th birthday)

    If we assume an average age of death within the given age ranges then the average age of death of a traveller in the 65+ age group would be 872 years old.


    HOW VERY INTERESTING

    Hold onto the tinfoil hats... Life expectancy does not equal the average age of death.


  • #117
    Lollipops23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,420 ✭✭✭Lollipops23


    professore wrote: »
    So it's OK for people living the US who have had overwhelmingly negative experiences with the black community to be racist?

    We're not talking about a small cross section of a community here, we're talking about several lifetimes' worth of interaction and living alongside each other. Read the posts, ask around. Yes, there will be good stories (I was in school with a settled traveller who was an absolute sweetheart, and a workhorse to boot. Got good grades, was generally popular, until her parents yanked her out in 5th year to get married and she was subsequently forbidden from associating with her old school friends).

    That's probably the only positive interaction I've had in my 29 years. For every 1 good experience, I've had at least 7 or 8 incredibly negative ones. And I'm not an anomaly.


  • #118
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Grew up in a town with a halting site and was exposed to travelers from the age of 5 in the local Primary school.

    I got on well with them. I was often chastised by other settled pupils for being too friendly to them. Tbh I felt sorry for the poor buggers, they were unkempt and smelly, they missed chunks of school time and fell way behind in school work, they were called knackers openly to their face by other 5, 6, 7 year olds. Children obviously repeating what they hear at home. Personally I hadn't even heard the word knacker before I went to that school.

    Now listen they weren't angels either, there were some behavioral issues such as fighting in the yard, disrupting lessons, backtalk to teachers. All things which could have been rectified though.

    When I see some of them in the town in the present day they're always friendly and call me by my first name. I never feel intimidated by them.


  • #119
    RoboRat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭RoboRat


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    The counterpoint to this would be if a traveler said
    I started out not being prejudiced against settled people.
    -But then when I was 4 a kid told me to leave a birthday party because I was a traveler
    -And then when I was 6 I was told I couldn't join the local whatever kids sports club because I was a traveler
    -And then when I was 9 the teacher put me sitting in the corner because he didn't want a traveler in the class
    - And then when I was 11 ...

    And so on and so forth....

    And they will say, I have only ever had negative experiences all my life with settled people....

    So they feel they get a raw deal from you....

    And you feel you get a raw deal from them.....

    Where does that bring you to? What do you do with that?

    I can stand with my hand on heart and say that I have never done anything to cause any grief to a member of the traveling community. I cant say that has been reciprocated.

    Personally speaking, the day in the hospital and what happened on what was supposed to be the happiest day of my life, augmented my view. You may say it was just one family but from talking to the nurses, it wasn't unusual and they practically begged me to write a letter to the HSE as they were sick to their back teeth of having to deal with it.

    To kick a swiss ball around a maternity ward with babies that were hours old, with the ball landing on a newborn, and then have the stones to try and start a fight when I pulled them on it said it all to me.

    Anybody who can have such blatant disregard for babies is an animal in my opinion regardless of their 'ethnicity'


  • #120
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,240 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The state spends a fortune trying to help travellers improve their Circumstances but their 'culture' is holding them back.

    My mother lives in a nice quiet estate, or it used to be until a traveller family moved in, 2 stabbings, home invasions, feral dogs and the next door neighbours being bullied out of their house, open intimidations and threats against other residents..

    Anyone who thinks travellers are unfairly maligned, they can buy the house next door to these people for next to nothing.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



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  • #121
    Glenster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,626 ✭✭✭Glenster


    PARlance wrote: »
    Hold onto the tinfoil hats... Life expectancy does not equal the average age of death.


    Uhhhhhh.

    I think its fairly standard to use a survival tree to calculate LEB (life expectancy at birth), as I did.

    How do you calculate life expectancy?


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