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Venom (Sony Universe)

24

Comments

  • #2


    Infinity Wars gonna create a multiverse or something?


  • #2


    pjohnson wrote: »
    He wont appear with Stark or Steve but he will appear with Peter.

    Yeah but didn't we already know that? I dunno, doesn't seem like big news to me...


  • #2


    Yeah but didn't we already know that? I dunno, doesn't seem like big news to me...

    Some people (as can be seen above) seemed to expect a multiverse. Venom will actually just be like Coulson/Quake and the AOS characters. Part of MCU but not in the "flagship" Avengers movies.


  • #2


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Some people (as can be seen above) seemed to expect a multiverse. Venom will actually just be like Coulson/Quake and the AOS characters. Part of MCU but not in the "flagship" Avengers movies.

    I don't think that's the case. The Venom series won't be allowed reference anything in the MCU except Spider-man. It essentially will be a different universe... which is all to the good tbh.


  • #2


    I don't think that's the case. The Venom series won't be allowed reference anything in the MCU except Spider-man. It essentially will be a different universe... which is all to the good tbh.

    Yeah this is the way it'll have to work. In theory you could argue that Venom exists in the same universe as the MCU (in the same vein you could argue Transformers exist in the 616 etc) but in practical terms Marvel would probably demand more and more for every little link to the MCU...


  • #2


    I don't think that's the case. The Venom series won't be allowed reference anything in the MCU except Spider-man. It essentially will be a different universe... which is all to the good tbh.

    Well Spider-Man is in the MCU so unless they plan on using Andrew Garfield again. Or casting and using Miles Morales. If its the Tom Holland version then Venom is clearly part of the MCU.


  • #2


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Well Spider-Man is in the MCU so unless they plan on using Andrew Garfield again. Or casting and using Miles Morales. If its the Tom Holland version then Venom is clearly part of the MCU.

    Yeah not really though.


  • #2


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Well Spider-Man is in the MCU so unless they plan on using Andrew Garfield again. Or casting and using Miles Morales. If its the Tom Holland version then Venom is clearly part of the MCU.

    Very very technically. Without any form of negotiation, Venom will never appear with any part of the MCU outside of Spidey (who techincally could be removed at any time). I'm sure Sony would be very happy for people to think this, but the reality doesn't match up.

    It's like, as I said earlier, saying the Transformers are part of the Marvel comic universe because Spider-Man appeared in their comic once, or the Doctor from Doctor Who was because he shrunk Death's Head down to human size before appearing in Marvel UK.

    EDIT: I forgot one of the weirdest not-really marvel cross overs, Machine Man was granted sentience by the monolith from 2001.


  • #2


    This just reminds me of the people who were confused by DoFP :D


  • #2


    Very very technically. Without any form of negotiation, Venom will never appear with any part of the MCU outside of Spidey (who techincally could be removed at any time). I'm sure Sony would be very happy for people to think this, but the reality doesn't match up.

    It's like, as I said earlier, saying the Transformers are part of the Marvel comic universe because Spider-Man appeared in their comic once, or the Doctor from Doctor Who was because he shrunk Death's Head down to human size before appearing in Marvel UK.

    EDIT: I forgot one of the weirdest not-really marvel cross overs, Machine Man was granted sentience by the monolith from 2001.

    At least you understand comics somewhat.

    Take this volume of Avengers while Peter is currently serving on the Avengers roster he isn't being confronted by Venom/Ock/Goblin an the other general "spidey only" villains instead its Kang The Conquerer. That doesnt suddenly mean Peters classic villains dont exist or they are non canon to the Marvel Universe. Venom doesnt need to become an Avengers antagonist to prove he exists.

    Plenty of longstanding Marvel heroes have their own villians who generally dont become Marvel Team antagonists.


  • #2


    pjohnson wrote: »
    At least you understand comics somewhat.

    Take this volume of Avengers while Peter is currently serving on the Avengers roster he isn't being confronted by Venom/Ock/Goblin an the other general "spidey only" villains instead its Kang The Conquerer. That doesnt suddenly mean Peters classic villains dont exist or they are non canon to the Marvel Universe. Venom doesnt need to become an Avengers antagonist to prove he exists.

    Plenty of longstanding Marvel heroes have their own villians who generally dont become Marvel Team antagonists.

    See the thing is though, that's a different situation and completely immaterial. Venom won't be part of the MCU because they don't have the rights to use him in it and Sony don't have the rights to use MCU characters. The fact of Holland's Spider-man being in both doesn't change the fact that, without a specific deal, the Venom movie won't be allowed to reference the MCU and the MCU won't be allowed to reference Venom.

    Technically, they coexist but in reality, there's not going to be any crossover.


  • #2


    pjohnson wrote: »
    At least you understand comics somewhat.

    Take this volume of Avengers while Peter is currently serving on the Avengers roster he isn't being confronted by Venom/Ock/Goblin an the other general "spidey only" villains instead its Kang The Conquerer. That doesnt suddenly mean Peters classic villains dont exist or they are non canon to the Marvel Universe. Venom doesnt need to become an Avengers antagonist to prove he exists.

    Plenty of longstanding Marvel heroes have their own villians who generally dont become Marvel Team antagonists.

    WHOOOOOA there nelly! No need to be insulting.

    This has nothing to do with characters and there stories and everything to do with law and contracts. I was referring to history for humorous effect.

    The MCU is owned by Marvel studios. Venom's cinematic rights are owned by Sony. There is a secondary deal which permits Spider-Man to appear in 4 (and 4 only) movies. This does not extend to Venom or any other elements of the license. Marvel will probably be exceedingly careful to not give Sony the free marketing that would imply.

    It's just as easy to state that the Spider-Man that appears in the MCU films is another version, another universe, as say that Venom is in the MCU- and in fact makes much more sense for Marvel to do... until Sony return to the negotiating table.


  • #2


    pjohnson wrote: »
    At least you understand comics somewhat.

    Take this volume of Avengers while Peter is currently serving on the Avengers roster he isn't being confronted by Venom/Ock/Goblin an the other general "spidey only" villains instead its Kang The Conquerer. That doesnt suddenly mean Peters classic villains dont exist or they are non canon to the Marvel Universe. Venom doesnt need to become an Avengers antagonist to prove he exists.

    Plenty of longstanding Marvel heroes have their own villians who generally dont become Marvel Team antagonists.

    I think the point however is that in that scenario, that's the comic books, and Marvel has the rights to each character. In the films, Marvel now have joint rights for Spider-Man, and Spider-Man can now be in the Marvel movies and the Sony movies. But Venom isn't part of those rights, he's only in the Sony movies. Likewise for Iron Man, Cap etc, they can't be in the non-Spider-Man Sony movies (not even mentioned by name).

    So while the Venom movie may have an appearance from Spider-Man or references to Homecoming, they're not going to be able to mention anything to do with the Marvel movies. They won't even be able to use the term 'Avenger'.

    So the Venom film can't reference the fact that anything other than Spider-Man exists, and the Marvel movies can't reference anything that happens in the Venom or other Spider-Verse films other than Spider-Man. Spider-Man is the link between the two worlds, but if neither world can acknowledge the other, the link is tenuous at best.


  • #2


    Technically, they coexist but in reality, there's not going to be any crossover.

    Thats what I said at the start when I said Venom wont appear with Steve or Stark. He'll be tied to Peter only but that doesnt mean that Peter is warped through into bizaro MCU. Venom like Quake/Mr. Hyde/Lorelei wont be acknowledged outside of his own appearances.

    Like Lorelei IS an Asgardian but she has never been acknowledged in any way shape or form in any of the Thor films OR the Avengers films. She is still an MCU character due to her presence in the MCU programme Agents of Shield. Venom will get the same treatment.


    This appears somehow confusing. Meh. Like I said DoFP lives on still lol.

    Gluck


  • #2


    Indeed, you seem quite confused about the whole thing.


  • #2


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Thats what I said at the start when I said Venom wont appear with Steve or Stark. He'll be tied to Peter only but that doesnt mean that Peter is warped through into bizaro MCU. Venom like Quake/Mr. Hyde/Lorelei wont be acknowledged outside of his own appearances.

    Like Lorelei IS an Asgardian but she has never been acknowledged in any way shape or form in any of the Thor films OR the Avengers films. She is still an MCU character due to her presence in the MCU programme Agents of Shield. Venom will get the same treatment.


    This appears somehow confusing. Meh. Like I said DoFP lives on still lol.

    Gluck

    The difference, and admittedly it's a fairly small difference, is that Quake/Mr.Hyde/Lorelei/SHIELD et al can appear and/or be referenced in the films, even though it's extremely unlikely they ever will. Venom can't. Even if in Thor they wanted to reference Lorelei as an easter egg, they could mention "other Asgardians" who have come to Earth etc. But they're not really going to be able to mention "alien symbiotes" or similar for Venom because Marvel aren't going to want to publicise movies they're not involved in (and likely won't be able to legally anyway as it's hinting at a character which they don't have rights for)

    I just think people's justification for considering them to be two separate universes with a common link between them is perfectly valid. Not that Peter travels between universes or anything, but just that the Marvel Universe with their Peter/Spider-Man is one universe, and the Sony Spider-Verse with their Peter/Spider-Man is a different universe, hence why there's no cross-over.


  • #2


    Indeed, you seem quite confused about the whole thing.

    :D

    Edit: just noticed you mod here.


  • #2


    Are we sure they don't have rights to him though , Because with the Home Coming Trilogy that's coming and 100% set in the MCU won't Marvel have rights to the villains in that Vulture and Shocker in Homecoming .....so I'm sure they'd be under the same umbrella as Venom as a Spider Villain

    So both Sony and Marvel Studios can use them I reckon


  • #2


    Are we sure they don't have rights to him though , Because with the Home Coming Trilogy that's coming and 100% set in the MCU won't Marvel have rights to the villains in that Vulture and Shocker in Homecoming .....so I'm sure they'd be under the same umbrella as Venom as a Spider Villain

    So both Sony and Marvel Studios can use them I reckon

    The deal they have is for Spider-man to appear in 4 MCU films but only Spider-man. It doesn't give them the rights to other characters used in that trilogy for their own use. Part of the deal is that Feige will executive producer Homecoming and, it seems that he has also agreed to allow some use of MCU properties too (hence certain MCU characters appearing in Homecoming) but neither Sony nor Marvel Studios then retains the right to use the other studio's properties independently.


  • #2


    I just read that Carnage is going to be the big bad in this Venom movie...


  • #2


    I just read that Carnage is going to be the big bad in this Venom movie...

    Feels like Sony are pulling a DC...


  • #2


    I just read that Carnage is going to be the big bad in this Venom movie...
    Feels like Sony are pulling a DC...

    I got a bad feeling about this..


  • #2


    Lithium93_ wrote: »
    I got a bad feeling about this..

    I try to keep an open mind but they don't make it easy...


  • #2


    I try to keep an open mind but they don't make it easy...

    Sony are gonna cram in as much as possible, a la Spider-Man 3, which didn't exactly work for Spider-Man 3 a decade ago.


  • #2


    Office meeting at Sony..

    Who do we own the rights too?

    Ok let's put them all in this except Spider Man as Marvel have him on loan.


    But let's make it all happen in the Marvel/Disney universe so we can share off their success.



    Great ideas everyone pay rises for all.


  • #2


    I mean in fairness, who else are Sony going to pick as the villain? I just assumed from the start it was going to be Carnage. Makes a lot of sense imo.


  • #2


    Penn wrote: »
    I mean in fairness, who else are Sony going to pick as the villain? I just assumed from the start it was going to be Carnage. Makes a lot of sense imo.

    I just kinda feel like they should build to Carnage as the big bad for Venom. I don't know where they'll go after the first film...

    What would be interesting would be to have Venom be the villain, facing off against a hero for most of the film (someone unexpected like Silk or Scarlet Spider) and by the end, being defeated by the hero, only to be then tamed by Brock himself, leading to him being the hero of the follow-up movies, where he can face Carnage.


  • #2


    I just kinda feel like they should build to Carnage as the big bad for Venom. I don't know where they'll go after the first film...

    What would be interesting would be to have Venom be the villain, facing off against a hero for most of the film (someone unexpected like Silk or Scarlet Spider) and by the end, being defeated by the hero, only to be then tamed by Brock himself, leading to him being the hero of the follow-up movies, where he can face Carnage.

    I think the only way to really sell Venom as a hero/anti-hero is to have him as a monster, but one who is needed to take down a bigger monster, and that's Carnage. It gives Venom a stake in the fight, ties their origins in together (which means no need to try introduce someone like Silk or Scarlet Spider), and Carnage doesn't have to be killed off, you could still have him behind the scenes in future films recovering before attacking again.

    I think Venom is going to be a hard sell to the audience, even with the Spider-Man tie-in. Their best shot is a villain more recognisable and easier to explain without having comics knowledge, and given Cletus/Carnage's crazy persona, the right actor doing it could make people excited about the performance.


  • #2


    About Silk... possible spoiler...
    isn´t Silk being introduced in Spiderman:Homecoming...?


  • #2


    About Silk... possible spoiler...
    isn´t Silk being introduced in Spiderman:Homecoming...?

    This is such a misapplication of spoiler tags, I can't even...


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