Venom (Sony Universe)

Nervous Wreck

Tom Hardy confirmed to star.

http://bloody-disgusting.com/news/3438285/tom-hardy-becomes-venom-marvels-spider-man-spinoff/

Nervous Wreck

Ugh link may not work. On my phone...

Agent Coulson

Sony has ensnared a star and director for its Spider-Man offshoot, Venom.

Tom Hardy, who was nominated for an Oscar for his work in The Revenant, is in final negotiations to star in Venom, while Ruben Fleischer, best known for directing Zombieland, is final negotiations to helm the movie project centering on one of Spider-Man’s signature villains.

The project is one of Sony’s top priorities and the studio is not wasting time as the movie is set to open Oct. 5, 2018.

Venom is to usher in a host of movies from Sony's Marvel and Spider-Man-based universe of characters. Sony is rebooting its Marvel-based slate with this summer’s Spider-Man: Homecoming and Venom is a key title in its slate. The studio is also developing a Silver Sable/Black Cat project among other characters from the Spider-Man stable.

Venom has been one of Marvel’s top villains and a Spider-Man fixture since he was introduced in 1988, created by writer David Michelinie and artists Todd McFarlane and Mike Zeck. The character is an alien symbiote that needs a human host to survive. In return, the alien vests its victim with incredible powers. He made his first big-screen appearance in Sam Raimi's Spider-Man 3 and was portrayed by Topher Grace.

Scott Rosenberg and Jeff Pinkner, the latter of whom worked on 2014’s The Amazing Spider-Man 2, wrote the script for Venom. Plot details are being kept in the black but Hardy, who is said to be a Venom fan, will play Eddie Brock, the character who first became Venom.

Avi Arad and Matt Tolmach are producing, along with Amy Pascal.

Fleischer made a name for himself balancing comedy with action and horror elements and recently helmed episodes of the Drew Barrymore cannibal show Santa Clarita Diet and NBC’s Superstore. He is also a producer on Brie Larson’s directorial debut, Unicorn Store.

The brooding Hardy has racked up acclaim for productions such as Locke and Legend and also starred in Mad Max: Fury Road. The actor has eschewed, for the most part, popcorn movies but did star as Batman villain Bane in 2012’s Dark Knight Rises.

With Venom, the actor now switches from the DC side of comic book movie dimension to the Marvel zone.

Hardy is repped by CAA, Sloane Offer and UK’s United Agents. Fleischer is repped by CAA, Management 360, and Sloane Offer.

After the news broke, Sony shared a photo of Hardy getting in the Venom spirit:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/venom-movie-2018-tom-hardy-star-ruben-fleischer-direct-1004115

Agent Coulson

Tom Hardy is Eddie Brock in #Venom, the upcoming film from Sony’s Marvel Universe releasing October 5, 2018 – production starts this fall.

Ben Gadot

Not technically MCU (but could be if Sony were inclined) Tom Hardy has been cast as Venom in their solo venture. Not sure how I feel about Sony's insistence of developing this free of any commitments to the MCU Spidey, but Tom has to be almost fan casting for Eddie. Great shout.

Lithium93_

Was hoping FOX would nab Tom Hardy for Wolverine.

Ben Gadot

I think he was a hot property for all studios. Warner/DC still wanted him even after he had to drop out from SS. The link with Wolverine seemed genuine.

But Fox have decided to push on with the young actress in Logan as their new clawed hero while right now, I'm not sure there's still many plum roles that WB/DC could offer him. I mean Rick Flagg was a pretty sh1t role to offer him, but that's why they went after someone like Hardy who would have elevated it.

Sony have astutely taken advantage.

Slydice

A Sony film.

Hope the story is good.

Doctor DooM

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Avi Arad and Amy Pascal

Slydice wrote: »

A Sony film.

Hope the story is good.

Indications are not good

JP Liz V1

Ben Gadot wrote: »

Not technically MCU (but could be if Sony were inclined) Tom Hardy has been cast as Venom in their solo venture. Not sure how I feel about Sony's insistence of developing this free of any commitments to the MCU Spiney, but Tom has to be almost fan casting for Eddie. Great shout.

Ruben Fleischer (Zombieland) directing

Agent Coulson

Any I know if Sony can use Spidey still any version of him even if he is in the MCU?


Do Sony have the rights to say Miles Morales and they will use him in these movies.

Ben Gadot

I'm pretty certain they can use Miles Morales (think they might have come pretty close to going down that route as well before).

There was once a possibility that Warner were going to have two different iterations of Batman at the same time (Bale and Armie Hammer), so I don't see why Sony couldn't do the same.

Having said that however I think they're determined to establish Venom free of any responsibility to the comics, so I don't think we'll have two Spider-mans at once.

Nervous Wreck

Not sure we'll get Miles Morales anytime soon. I read somewhere that part of the Sony/Marvel deal was that Sony stipulated that he be a straight, white male. If they went so far as to insist on that, I think it kinda speaks to their intentions.

Doctor DooM

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Any I know if Sony can use Spidey still any version of him even if he is in the MCU?


Do Sony have the rights to say Miles Morales and they will use him in these movies.

It's widely believed that Sony have the rights to pretty much do anything they like even while the MCU films were happening.

It's also thought they have the rights to Morales.

Bear in mind no one has ever actually seen the contracts between Marvel and Sony/ Fox/ Paramount so there's a certain amount of scuttlebutt/ rumour involved at every turn.

Nervous Wreck

Doctor DooM wrote: »

It's widely believed that Sony have the rights to pretty much do anything they like even while the MCU films were happening.

It's also thought they have the rights to Morales.

Bear in mind no one has ever actually seen the contracts between Marvel and Sony/ Fox/ Paramount so there's a certain amount of scuttlebutt/ rumour involved at every turn.

The understood logic (which seems to be accurate enough) is that any character that first appeared in a Spidey book belongs to Sony by default, any character that first appeared in X-Men or FF belongs to Fox by default etc. except where specific character deals have been made.

So Sony should have Miles Morales, Black Cat, Silk, Spider-Woman etc.

Ben Gadot

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Not sure we'll get Miles Morales anytime soon. I read somewhere that part of the Sony/Marvel deal was that Sony stipulated that he be a straight, white male. If they went so far as to insist on that, I think it kinda speaks to their intentions.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::D

And people say WB are bad.

Doctor DooM

Ben Gadot wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::D

And people say WB are bad.

From the scuttle butt I've heard Sony NEED Spider-man to hit. ASM2 and Ghostbusters failing have left a huge gap where there summer tent post should be.

Considering Pascal's tendency towards female/ colour centric leads (she did ghostbusters and wanted to do something similar with super heroes in a film called glass ceiling) that'd indicate they wanted the new Spider-Man to be super safe.

Bacchus

Doctor DooM wrote: »

From the scuttle butt I've heard Sony NEED Spider-man to hit. ASM2 and Ghostbusters failing have left a huge gap where there summer tent post should be.

Considering Pascal's tendency towards female/ colour centric leads (she did ghostbusters and wanted to do something similar with super heroes in a film called glass ceiling) that'd indicate they wanted the new Spider-Man to be super safe.

Are they getting a cut of the box-office so? What's it to them if Marvel do a great job with Homecoming? Are we in some sort of catch-22 situation where if Homecoming is a hit, Sony will ride that wave (and likely crash it), but if it gets a lukewarm reception, they... plough on anyway to hold on to rights?

Penn

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Considering Pascal's tendency towards female/ colour centric leads (she did ghostbusters and wanted to do something similar with super heroes in a film called glass ceiling)

As subtle as the 'b' in 'subtle' 'brick'.

As far as I've read, it seems Sony want to set up their own 'Spider-Verse' of films but likely separate from the MCU, including the MCU version of Spider-Man (because they can't cross their own films over with the MCU films). So they're likely going to do a bunch of films (Venom, Black Cat/Silver Sable, maybe try Sinister Six again) possibly with references to Spider-Man but without directly including him.

Ben Gadot

Bacchus wrote: »

Are they getting a cut of the box-office so? What's it to them if Marvel do a great job with Homecoming? Are we in some sort of catch-22 situation where if Homecoming is a hit, Sony will ride that wave (and likely crash it), but if it gets a lukewarm reception, they... plough on anyway to hold on to rights?

More or less.

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Weird-Specifics-Marvel-Sony-Secret-Spider-Man-Deal-69718.html

http://collider.com/spider-man-homecoming-2-mcu-marvel-sony/

Immediate financial interests in Sony's favour while they can pull the plug at a certain point. Marvel Studios benefit comes out of the non solo ventures.

Doctor DooM

Bacchus wrote: »

Are they getting a cut of the box-office so? What's it to them if Marvel do a great job with Homecoming? Are we in some sort of catch-22 situation where if Homecoming is a hit, Sony will ride that wave (and likely crash it), but if it gets a lukewarm reception, they... plough on anyway to hold on to rights?

Again I am not a movie person and this is based on scuttlebutt I've read, but the thinking is that if Spider-Man hits big with homecoming Sony will be in a very strong position for negotiating either a return to Marvel for billions or they'll keep a hand on the franchise and make tonnes after Marvel's done the hard work.

If it doesn't work..? Well, Sony don't really lose anything, as as long as a new Spider-Man film is made it's thought their license extends for 5 years. They get ANOTHER shot at the franchise.

I believe the box office for Homecoming and it's sequel is shared. Again, rumoured

Penn wrote: »

As subtle as the 'b' in 'subtle' 'brick'.

As far as I've read, it seems Sony want to set up their own 'Spider-Verse' of films but likely separate from the MCU, including the MCU version of Spider-Man (because they can't cross their own films over with the MCU films). So they're likely going to do a bunch of films (Venom, Black Cat/Silver Sable, maybe try Sinister Six again) possibly with references to Spider-Man but without directly including him.

I like to think I'm quite the lefty liberal type and I certainly don't like my films pasty and penis only. Even I think Pascal is a bit of a pain in the arse

Ben Gadot

Guardian blog that while disagreeable at times (I was not a fan of Taboo), it gets the crux of things: Tom Hardy will at least elevate this risky venture through pure talent.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/filmblog/2017/may/22/tom-hardy-venom-eddie-brock-sony-superhero-universe

pjohnson

I think Eddie should be remembered as Topher Grace and forgotten. If Hardy was playing Flash Thompson I'd be far more excited.

Brief_Lives

pjohnson wrote: »

I think Eddie should be remembered as Topher Grace and forgotten. If Hardy was playing Flash Thompson I'd be far more excited.

I won´t hear anything against big Joe Mang...:p

Penn

pjohnson wrote: »

I think Eddie should be remembered as Topher Grace and forgotten. If Hardy was playing Flash Thompson I'd be far more excited.

Yeah the only way I can see the film going story-wise is if they do the Flash Thompson version. Makes more sense considering it's a solo movie most likely without Spider-Man at all.

Doctor DooM

Army no legs special ops Venom would be a great turn indeed!

Agent Coulson

Credit to MilesMorales1 who posted this in the Film forum the will take place in the Spiderman Homecoming Universe aka the MCU.

https://twitter.com/comicfade/status/876443828370255874

Ben Gadot

Having Tom Hardy at their disposal in the MCU was too good to pass up, though it raises questions about Eddie Brock's origin now as Venom.

Nervous Wreck

I dunno, feels like marketing double-speak to me. I don't think we'll see Venom in the MCU.

Ben Gadot

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

I dunno, feels like marketing double-speak to me. I don't think we'll see Venom in the MCU.

The good thing is that MCU have the right to not use him I think. They can say he's part of it, doesn't mean they have to use him.

pjohnson

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

I dunno, feels like marketing double-speak to me. I don't think we'll see Venom in the MCU.

He wont appear with Stark or Steve but he will appear with Peter.

Slydice

Infinity Wars gonna create a multiverse or something?

Nervous Wreck

pjohnson wrote: »

He wont appear with Stark or Steve but he will appear with Peter.

Yeah but didn't we already know that? I dunno, doesn't seem like big news to me...

pjohnson

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Yeah but didn't we already know that? I dunno, doesn't seem like big news to me...

Some people (as can be seen above) seemed to expect a multiverse. Venom will actually just be like Coulson/Quake and the AOS characters. Part of MCU but not in the "flagship" Avengers movies.

Nervous Wreck

pjohnson wrote: »

Some people (as can be seen above) seemed to expect a multiverse. Venom will actually just be like Coulson/Quake and the AOS characters. Part of MCU but not in the "flagship" Avengers movies.

I don't think that's the case. The Venom series won't be allowed reference anything in the MCU except Spider-man. It essentially will be a different universe... which is all to the good tbh.

Doctor DooM

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

I don't think that's the case. The Venom series won't be allowed reference anything in the MCU except Spider-man. It essentially will be a different universe... which is all to the good tbh.

Yeah this is the way it'll have to work. In theory you could argue that Venom exists in the same universe as the MCU (in the same vein you could argue Transformers exist in the 616 etc) but in practical terms Marvel would probably demand more and more for every little link to the MCU...

pjohnson

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

I don't think that's the case. The Venom series won't be allowed reference anything in the MCU except Spider-man. It essentially will be a different universe... which is all to the good tbh.

Well Spider-Man is in the MCU so unless they plan on using Andrew Garfield again. Or casting and using Miles Morales. If its the Tom Holland version then Venom is clearly part of the MCU.

Nervous Wreck

pjohnson wrote: »

Well Spider-Man is in the MCU so unless they plan on using Andrew Garfield again. Or casting and using Miles Morales. If its the Tom Holland version then Venom is clearly part of the MCU.

Yeah not really though.

Doctor DooM

pjohnson wrote: »

Well Spider-Man is in the MCU so unless they plan on using Andrew Garfield again. Or casting and using Miles Morales. If its the Tom Holland version then Venom is clearly part of the MCU.

Very very technically. Without any form of negotiation, Venom will never appear with any part of the MCU outside of Spidey (who techincally could be removed at any time). I'm sure Sony would be very happy for people to think this, but the reality doesn't match up.

It's like, as I said earlier, saying the Transformers are part of the Marvel comic universe because Spider-Man appeared in their comic once, or the Doctor from Doctor Who was because he shrunk Death's Head down to human size before appearing in Marvel UK.

EDIT: I forgot one of the weirdest not-really marvel cross overs, Machine Man was granted sentience by the monolith from 2001.

pjohnson

This just reminds me of the people who were confused by DoFP

pjohnson

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Very very technically. Without any form of negotiation, Venom will never appear with any part of the MCU outside of Spidey (who techincally could be removed at any time). I'm sure Sony would be very happy for people to think this, but the reality doesn't match up.

It's like, as I said earlier, saying the Transformers are part of the Marvel comic universe because Spider-Man appeared in their comic once, or the Doctor from Doctor Who was because he shrunk Death's Head down to human size before appearing in Marvel UK.

EDIT: I forgot one of the weirdest not-really marvel cross overs, Machine Man was granted sentience by the monolith from 2001.

At least you understand comics somewhat.

Take this volume of Avengers while Peter is currently serving on the Avengers roster he isn't being confronted by Venom/Ock/Goblin an the other general "spidey only" villains instead its Kang The Conquerer. That doesnt suddenly mean Peters classic villains dont exist or they are non canon to the Marvel Universe. Venom doesnt need to become an Avengers antagonist to prove he exists.

Plenty of longstanding Marvel heroes have their own villians who generally dont become Marvel Team antagonists.

Nervous Wreck

pjohnson wrote: »

At least you understand comics somewhat.

Take this volume of Avengers while Peter is currently serving on the Avengers roster he isn't being confronted by Venom/Ock/Goblin an the other general "spidey only" villains instead its Kang The Conquerer. That doesnt suddenly mean Peters classic villains dont exist or they are non canon to the Marvel Universe. Venom doesnt need to become an Avengers antagonist to prove he exists.

Plenty of longstanding Marvel heroes have their own villians who generally dont become Marvel Team antagonists.

See the thing is though, that's a different situation and completely immaterial. Venom won't be part of the MCU because they don't have the rights to use him in it and Sony don't have the rights to use MCU characters. The fact of Holland's Spider-man being in both doesn't change the fact that, without a specific deal, the Venom movie won't be allowed to reference the MCU and the MCU won't be allowed to reference Venom.

Technically, they coexist but in reality, there's not going to be any crossover.

Doctor DooM

pjohnson wrote: »

At least you understand comics somewhat.

Take this volume of Avengers while Peter is currently serving on the Avengers roster he isn't being confronted by Venom/Ock/Goblin an the other general "spidey only" villains instead its Kang The Conquerer. That doesnt suddenly mean Peters classic villains dont exist or they are non canon to the Marvel Universe. Venom doesnt need to become an Avengers antagonist to prove he exists.

Plenty of longstanding Marvel heroes have their own villians who generally dont become Marvel Team antagonists.

WHOOOOOA there nelly! No need to be insulting.

This has nothing to do with characters and there stories and everything to do with law and contracts. I was referring to history for humorous effect.

The MCU is owned by Marvel studios. Venom's cinematic rights are owned by Sony. There is a secondary deal which permits Spider-Man to appear in 4 (and 4 only) movies. This does not extend to Venom or any other elements of the license. Marvel will probably be exceedingly careful to not give Sony the free marketing that would imply.

It's just as easy to state that the Spider-Man that appears in the MCU films is another version, another universe, as say that Venom is in the MCU- and in fact makes much more sense for Marvel to do... until Sony return to the negotiating table.

Penn

pjohnson wrote: »

At least you understand comics somewhat.

Take this volume of Avengers while Peter is currently serving on the Avengers roster he isn't being confronted by Venom/Ock/Goblin an the other general "spidey only" villains instead its Kang The Conquerer. That doesnt suddenly mean Peters classic villains dont exist or they are non canon to the Marvel Universe. Venom doesnt need to become an Avengers antagonist to prove he exists.

Plenty of longstanding Marvel heroes have their own villians who generally dont become Marvel Team antagonists.

I think the point however is that in that scenario, that's the comic books, and Marvel has the rights to each character. In the films, Marvel now have joint rights for Spider-Man, and Spider-Man can now be in the Marvel movies and the Sony movies. But Venom isn't part of those rights, he's only in the Sony movies. Likewise for Iron Man, Cap etc, they can't be in the non-Spider-Man Sony movies (not even mentioned by name).

So while the Venom movie may have an appearance from Spider-Man or references to Homecoming, they're not going to be able to mention anything to do with the Marvel movies. They won't even be able to use the term 'Avenger'.

So the Venom film can't reference the fact that anything other than Spider-Man exists, and the Marvel movies can't reference anything that happens in the Venom or other Spider-Verse films other than Spider-Man. Spider-Man is the link between the two worlds, but if neither world can acknowledge the other, the link is tenuous at best.

pjohnson

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Technically, they coexist but in reality, there's not going to be any crossover.

Thats what I said at the start when I said Venom wont appear with Steve or Stark. He'll be tied to Peter only but that doesnt mean that Peter is warped through into bizaro MCU. Venom like Quake/Mr. Hyde/Lorelei wont be acknowledged outside of his own appearances.

Like Lorelei IS an Asgardian but she has never been acknowledged in any way shape or form in any of the Thor films OR the Avengers films. She is still an MCU character due to her presence in the MCU programme Agents of Shield. Venom will get the same treatment.


This appears somehow confusing. Meh. Like I said DoFP lives on still lol.

Gluck

Nervous Wreck

Indeed, you seem quite confused about the whole thing.

Penn

pjohnson wrote: »

Thats what I said at the start when I said Venom wont appear with Steve or Stark. He'll be tied to Peter only but that doesnt mean that Peter is warped through into bizaro MCU. Venom like Quake/Mr. Hyde/Lorelei wont be acknowledged outside of his own appearances.

Like Lorelei IS an Asgardian but she has never been acknowledged in any way shape or form in any of the Thor films OR the Avengers films. She is still an MCU character due to her presence in the MCU programme Agents of Shield. Venom will get the same treatment.


This appears somehow confusing. Meh. Like I said DoFP lives on still lol.

Gluck

The difference, and admittedly it's a fairly small difference, is that Quake/Mr.Hyde/Lorelei/SHIELD et al can appear and/or be referenced in the films, even though it's extremely unlikely they ever will. Venom can't. Even if in Thor they wanted to reference Lorelei as an easter egg, they could mention "other Asgardians" who have come to Earth etc. But they're not really going to be able to mention "alien symbiotes" or similar for Venom because Marvel aren't going to want to publicise movies they're not involved in (and likely won't be able to legally anyway as it's hinting at a character which they don't have rights for)

I just think people's justification for considering them to be two separate universes with a common link between them is perfectly valid. Not that Peter travels between universes or anything, but just that the Marvel Universe with their Peter/Spider-Man is one universe, and the Sony Spider-Verse with their Peter/Spider-Man is a different universe, hence why there's no cross-over.

pjohnson

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

Indeed, you seem quite confused about the whole thing.

Edit: just noticed you mod here.

brianregan09

Are we sure they don't have rights to him though , Because with the Home Coming Trilogy that's coming and 100% set in the MCU won't Marvel have rights to the villains in that Vulture and Shocker in Homecoming .....so I'm sure they'd be under the same umbrella as Venom as a Spider Villain

So both Sony and Marvel Studios can use them I reckon

Nervous Wreck

brianregan09 wrote: »

Are we sure they don't have rights to him though , Because with the Home Coming Trilogy that's coming and 100% set in the MCU won't Marvel have rights to the villains in that Vulture and Shocker in Homecoming .....so I'm sure they'd be under the same umbrella as Venom as a Spider Villain

So both Sony and Marvel Studios can use them I reckon

The deal they have is for Spider-man to appear in 4 MCU films but only Spider-man. It doesn't give them the rights to other characters used in that trilogy for their own use. Part of the deal is that Feige will executive producer Homecoming and, it seems that he has also agreed to allow some use of MCU properties too (hence certain MCU characters appearing in Homecoming) but neither Sony nor Marvel Studios then retains the right to use the other studio's properties independently.

Brief_Lives

I just read that Carnage is going to be the big bad in this Venom movie...