Dairy chit chat II

kowtow · 16-06-2017 11:25PM

jaymla627 wrote: »

To be fair any bps is returned to landlord in table so that will leave the ground returning anywhere from 350-450 total going forward, plus rental income is tax free....
Of course the danger to the owner is his ground could be mined of p and k and generally ran into the ground as the lease nears its end, would love to see a proper analysis done though on say how a second unit would stack up against a unit that simply builds extra accommodation on home farm/extends parlour etc and simply just ramps up production by having higher yielding cows that are fed a 1.5 ton meal a year doing 580kys milk solids and buffered with feed from outside rented blocks

true.. and the purchase price might well include entitlements and the return on them. makes the land look better from a landlords perspective if BPS continues for 20 years.

I'd also be interested to see how it stacks up against intensifying at home but where do you stop the comparison? At a fully indoor herd? At some arbitrary stocking rate on the MP? I suspect the journal sees a minefield of different comparisons there as well they might. To be fair there would also be a fair few people with a successor coming through for whom the second unit approach just fits, one way or another.

I think the intention of the article was probably to make people think a bit more formally about Return on Capital and the occupational challenge of employees ... which is fair enough I suppose.

alps · 16-06-2017 11:44PM

mahoney_j wrote: »

Why milk 2 cows when one will do same and more ,hi input /output units run ala Lyons estate with emphasis on grass and fty will churn profit in right hands

You are definitely correct in what you say, but could I say that the definitive difference in the 2 approaches is that the Hi in Hi Out again reaches a limit, whereas the simple grass (dairying for dummies " can be easily replicated again and again.

A bit like same effort getting 90% out if something and replicating, rather than trying to get 100% out of the original.....

alps · 16-06-2017 11:52PM

http://www.newbusiness.co.uk/articles/international-trade/cheshire-dairy-aiming-become-first-uk-firm-export-fresh-milk-china#.WURUMti2738.twitter

Our boys couldn't their head around sending anything fresh abroad...

pedigree 6 · 17-06-2017 12:25AM

alps wrote: »

http://www.newbusiness.co.uk/articles/international-trade/cheshire-dairy-aiming-become-first-uk-firm-export-fresh-milk-china#.WURUMti2738.twitter

Our boys couldn't their head around sending anything fresh abroad...

I was actually at that college as part of a tour from kildalton and it wouldn't be that big of a college.

There's yoghurt made a few miles from me being sold out in Dubai.

Water John · 17-06-2017 12:50AM

Youhurt, Kefir and Ghee would be the type of products that may have an eastern market. They have a reasonable shelf life and they use fresh milk less than us. Then, most countries use less fresh milk than us, but it's an interesting niche.

whelan2 · 17-06-2017 06:09AM

pedigree 6 wrote: »

I was actually at that college as part of a tour from kildalton and it wouldn't be that big of a college.

There's yoghurt made a few miles from me being sold out in Dubai.

A few of us on here did the dairy course there many years ago

jaymla627 · 17-06-2017 06:41AM

Keepgrowing wrote: »

A week or so ago you were advocating keeping beef stock despite the fact that the specialist beef guys struggle to make it pay.

If I reading this right your advocating renting land on a conacre basis in order to drop it when milk price drops.

Could you develop this?

It would be the nuclear option dropping ground say after two years of sub 24 cent base price,also in my situation at the moment have ground secured for 17/18 going forward this isn't guaranteed but allows us to expand numbers for the time being....
Even doing the sums on taking ground for supporting milking herd its borderline profitable at milk above 30 cent, costing north of 700 a acre cash costs between rent/fert/paying silage contractor a year

pedigree 6 · 17-06-2017 08:13AM

whelan2 wrote: »

A few of us on here did the dairy course there many years ago

Did you run to the top of the hill?:D

They asked if any of our tour would take on the challenge to see if we could set a new record.
There were a few considering it but chickened out.:p

whelan2 · 17-06-2017 08:21AM

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Did you run to the top of the hill?:D

They asked if any of our tour would take on the challenge to see if we could set a new record.
There were a few considering it but chickened out.:p

Dont remember a hill. Maybe some of the rest do. They had a deadly milking parlour just after being installed when I was there, would never have seen anything like it here

leg wax · 17-06-2017 08:30AM

bull pulled out this morn. no more late cows, i hope...

Mooooo · 17-06-2017 08:33AM

leg wax wrote: »

bull pulled out this morn. no more late cows, i hope...

When did you start much ai done? Hope they hold for you. Baby steps here will pull him out mid july

leg wax · 17-06-2017 08:41AM

Mooooo wrote: »

When did you start much ai done? Hope they hold you. Baby steps here will pull him out mid july

9 weeks done no ai

mahoney_j · 17-06-2017 08:45AM

leg wax wrote: »

9 weeks done no ai

Brace move I'd of kept at it till 01/07

whelan2 · 17-06-2017 09:02AM

mahoney_j wrote: »

Brace move I'd of kept at it till 01/07

At 9 weeks though you'd have a fair idea how things are going

pedigree 6 · 17-06-2017 09:09AM

whelan2 wrote: »

Dont remember a hill. Maybe some of the rest do. They had a deadly milking parlour just after being installed when I was there, would never have seen anything like it here

The old age is getting to me.:o
It was Oatridge college in Scotland that had the hill.

I think we stopped in reaseheath too though for a day. They were trying to show us more about the engineering course they had.
I remember they had a great on campus bar though and they were trying to challenge us to drink a yard of ale.
Nobody took it on either.:rolleyes:

We were getting ferried around in the bus everyday it was hard to know what part of the country you were in.

whelan2 · 17-06-2017 09:24AM

Aye the college bar was mad, we were coming from ag college in Ireland were girls couldnt stay on the campus, to anything goes in Reaseheath.It was a good dairying course though. The only dairying course here at the time was in Pallaskenry afair

visatorro · 17-06-2017 09:26AM

leg wax wrote: »

bull pulled out this morn. no more late cows, i hope...

Beef or FR bulls?

leg wax · 17-06-2017 09:33AM

visatorro wrote: »

Beef or FR bulls?

beef , with ai sales up early on , plenty of fr heifers around in 2020 .

Mooooo · 17-06-2017 09:42AM

leg wax wrote: »

beef , with ai sales up early on , plenty of fr heifers around in 2020 .

Are you considering buying in replacements every year instead of rearing? Will you be selling those calves as calves or keep for a year?

freedominacup · 17-06-2017 09:45AM

whelan2 wrote: »

Aye the college bar was mad, we were coming from ag college in Ireland were girls couldnt stay on the campus, to anything goes in Reaseheath.It was a good dairying course though. The only dairying course here at the time was in Pallaskenry afair

What goes on tour Whelan. The top floor in the new student block saw a lot of action in my time.

leg wax · 17-06-2017 09:50AM

Mooooo wrote: »

Are you considering buying in replacements every year instead of rearing? Will you be selling those calves as calves or keep for a year?

keeping all calves , but that can change.

Mooooo · 17-06-2017 09:53AM

Was considering looking at buying in replacements to simplify things but tb in the area never seems to be far away so that is what is putting me off most, aside from sourcing sufficient quantities of replacements, Going from winter milk with 5 or 6 groups to spring with 1 or 2 is Appealing tho

GrasstoMilk · 17-06-2017 09:54AM

whelan2 wrote: »

At 9 weeks though you'd have a fair idea how things are going

End of week 7 here. 30% have returned here so far . Had a few 6 week reapeats

Mooooo · 17-06-2017 10:17AM

Just out of interest is anyone here buying in replacements? In terms of financing say 125 beef calves for sale at 200 a piece maybe 16 culls at say 800 is 37800, so that would be 23 replacements at 1600 a piece. May need 30 so paying for 7 but it would cost that much to rear my own and all of need to focus on after April would be cows and grass. Risk with buying in would be disease and around here getting locked up and stuck with 125 calves, and if I could buy in while locked up nearly certain bought in stock would not get compensation if they went down in that period. Could be argued that calf and cull sales would be gone but they are likely gone rearing heifers to the parlour anyway. One block, with a public road thru it with a few awkward parts and a small outfarm where calves normally are, could fatten culls on that ground instead maybe

Timmaay · 17-06-2017 01:19PM

Mooooo wrote: »

One block, with a public road thru it with a few awkward parts and a small outfarm where calves normally are, could fatten culls on that ground instead maybe

Your surely only changing from one low margin to another doing that? I've been breeding less replacements here the last 3yrs because we only had the milking block. 40ac popped up for rent this yr, across the road but can I could milk off. Not fully sure what I'll do about replacements moving forward, probably the same again, breed half and buy in the other half. Heifers take very little work I find, if it's a mild winter they don't even need a shed here. Kg of nuts for the 1st year and keep them on leafy grass and moved every 10days max. Didn't even bother with Ai on the maidens this year, let a bull on with them. If I can sort labour I'll probably take a quick jump up to 150/180cows, and start buying in silage and maize again, and still end up breeding half the replacements most years.

But moo, I think you'll get a lot more bang for buck by getting rid of the autumn calving, I certainly see zero reason to breed replacements in the autumn. It's been 3 groups of animals here the last year or so, 2 groups of heifers and the milkers, hugely simplied the system here and let's us largely just tick over from June to Feb.

Mooooo · 17-06-2017 04:25PM

Timmaay wrote: »

Your surely only changing from one low margin to another doing that? I've been breeding less replacements here the last 3yrs because we only had the milking block. 40ac popped up for rent this yr, across the road but can I could milk off. Not fully sure what I'll do about replacements moving forward, probably the same again, breed half and buy in the other half. Heifers take very little work I find, if it's a mild winter they don't even need a shed here. Kg of nuts for the 1st year and keep them on leafy grass and moved every 10days max. Didn't even bother with Ai on the maidens this year, let a bull on with them. If I can sort labour I'll probably take a quick jump up to 150/180cows, and start buying in silage and maize again, and still end up breeding half the replacements most years.

But moo, I think you'll get a lot more bang for buck by getting rid of the autumn calving, I certainly see zero reason to breed replacements in the autumn. It's been 3 groups of animals here the last year or so, 2 groups of heifers and the milkers, hugely simplied the system here and let's us largely just tick over from June to Feb.

The autumn Will be gone regardless, only 20 this year and gone then, the main idea behind this would be calves gone at 3 to 4 weeks and heifers bought in the winter before they calve. Cut workload and the need for a full time person at 140 cows. Ground not used for heifers then would reduce need for bought in maize/ silage, and more ground available in shoulders so less buffering. Outfarm is only 10 acres and steep enough so would prefer not to take silage off it hence the reason for mentioning putting culls there to get the extra few euro off them as opposed to straight from parlour, normally calves there for summer. Basically calve cow, calf gone after 3 weeks, 3 weeks ai and bulls then. Grass and cows only thing to do during summer

visatorro · 17-06-2017 04:45PM

Not directed at kowtow but he has spoken about the product we produce and markets we should target. Just read an article about a prize winning butchers in donegal that closed after sixty years blaming German multinationals and saying that people shop on price not loyalty. Just makes a point about our markets and how niche are fine but realistically small scale. Our hands are tied imv

Timmaay · 17-06-2017 05:01PM

Mooooo wrote: »

The autumn Will be gone regardless, only 20 this year and gone then, the main idea behind this would be calves gone at 3 to 4 weeks and heifers bought in the winter before they calve. Cut workload and the need for a full time person at 140 cows. Ground not used for heifers then would reduce need for bought in maize/ silage, and more ground available in shoulders so less buffering. Outfarm is only 10 acres and steep enough so would prefer not to take silage off it hence the reason for mentioning putting culls there to get the extra few euro off them as opposed to straight from parlour, normally calves there for summer. Basically calve cow, calf gone after 3 weeks, 3 weeks ai and bulls then. Grass and cows only thing to do during summer

I get ya, in the grand scale I don't think ditching heifers saves much at all on the labour front tho.

kowtow · 17-06-2017 05:24PM

visatorro wrote: »

Not directed at kowtow but he has spoken about the product we produce and markets we should target. Just read an article about a prize winning butchers in donegal that closed after sixty years blaming German multinationals and saying that people shop on price not loyalty. Just makes a point about our markets and how niche are fine but realistically small scale. Our hands are tied imv

I don't disagree entirely!

On the other hand we only have to look across to the UK and the amazing growth of local producers & retailers; or - maybe more importantly - to the US and yesterday's acquisition of Whole Foods Inc by Amazon. Things are changing.

What won't change easily is the particularly difficult situation of an Island with a small population compared to production levels; particularly given the political barriers which may fall in the way of supplying the UK.

There will always be a balance, and there should always be - unless we allow ourselves to be pulled too far towards high risk low return commodities at the expense of the sort of markets which our dairying traditions make us such a natural fit for.

pedigree 6 · 17-06-2017 05:47PM

Kind of related to the above posts.

Timmaay is in some location for an ice cream shop.:p

Dairy chit chat II

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