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Chuchote · 16-06-2017 08:06AM #1

Why don't schools have competitive cycling? They play hurling and hockey and football and basketball competitively, but why not cycling?

degsie · 16-06-2017 08:11AM

At a guess it would be a nightmare to supervise, given that you would be leaving school grounds and traveling on public roads.

I love Sean nos · 16-06-2017 08:12AM

Chuchote wrote: »

Why don't schools have competitive cycling? They play hurling and hockey and football and basketball competitively, but why not cycling?

Perceived as dangerous and a niche sport, whereas swinging lumps of wood at someone's head wouldn't be. Insurance costs. Bike expense. Supervision cost.

greenspurs · 16-06-2017 08:13AM

Route ..... insurance ...... safety .....

The school mine are in, wont allow them wrap their sambos in tin foil FFS !!
Or play football with a "leather ball" only plastic ones ......
Bubble wrapped , lining up the next Snowflake generation !!!

Chuchote · 16-06-2017 08:13AM

degsie wrote: »

At a guess it would be a nightmare to supervise, given that you would be leaving school grounds and traveling on public roads.

Do school hurlers dematerialise at home and rematerialise on the field for competitive games?

degsie · 16-06-2017 08:15AM

Chuchote wrote: »

Do school hurlers dematerialise at home and rematerialise on the field for competitive games?

Yes, I've seen it happen. It was up around Knock.

I love Sean nos · 16-06-2017 08:16AM

greenspurs wrote: »

The school mine are in, wont allow them wrap their sambos in tin foil FFS !!

Is tinfoil considered hazardous now?

Chuchote · 16-06-2017 08:19AM

I love Sean nos wrote: »

Is tinfoil considered hazardous now?

Don't want them to repurpose it as hats?

Back to the cycling clubs - it seems really weird that schools don't do this. Imagine an inner city Dublin school able to bring the kids out to Meath or Wicklow or Kildare on runs, show them how their country is available to them by just turning the pedals.

And in terms of competitive sport, is there really no schools league?

greenspurs · 16-06-2017 08:24AM

Chuchote wrote: »

Don't want them to repurpose it as hats?

Back to the cycling clubs - it seems really weird that schools don't do this. Imagine an inner city Dublin school able to bring the kids out to Meath or Wicklow or Kildare on runs, show them how their country is available to them by just turning the pedals.

And in terms of competitive sport, is there really no schools league?

Clubs - Carrick wheelers run a great beginners league , where there is quite a good turnout from kids , on a nice loop circuit.
Clonmel also run one , but its around Clonmel Racecourse, with a Brute of a hill !!! I put my little one off cycling for life after she did it.....
When i was in secondary school, there used to be a County Championship for school teams, mainly TimeTrials as far as i can remember, but that was it.

greenspurs · 16-06-2017 08:25AM

I love Sean nos wrote: »

Is tinfoil considered hazardous now?

Yes ! Seemingly....... :rolleyes::cool:
But they can hurl the sh1te outta each other .... Thats Kilkenny for yaa :P

2 Wheels Good · 16-06-2017 09:19AM

Charly Wegelius (he of the Domestique book) got out of PE and was allowed go off and cycle for his PE class rather than do the sports he didn't want to do.

Always thought it was a great idea, but he was dedicated to cycling. Not sure all teenagers would be as dedicated once around the corner from the school.

Chuchote · 16-06-2017 09:19AM

greenspurs wrote: »

Clubs - Carrick wheelers run a great beginners league , where there is quite a good turnout from kids , on a nice loop circuit.
Clonmel also run one , but its around Clonmel Racecourse, with a Brute of a hill !!! I put my little one off cycling for life after she did it.....
When i was in secondary school, there used to be a County Championship for school teams, mainly TimeTrials as far as i can remember, but that was it.

Shouldn't the clubs be touring schools to draw in members and enthuse PE teachers?

Leroy42 · 16-06-2017 09:31AM

CI should certainly be going around school. Doesn't have to be racing, but skills etc. Can be done in the playground or carpark. Balancing, slalom, teaching about maintenance etc. A couple of easily adjusted bikes so that even people without bikes can have a go

Get people involved in bikes. It doesn't have to be about racing, that the great thing about cycling. In GAA/soccer if you aren't good enough you quickly get left behind. There are so many aspects of cycling, road racing, leisure, bmx, cross etc, that everyone no matter what ability can partake at some level.

Even if its just to demystify cycling for lots of people out there who still count it as weird as 'hippie'. Show them how easy it is to fix a puncture, set up the gears and oil the chain.

Show them some Danny MacAskill videos

joey100 · 16-06-2017 09:32AM

I worked with kids, not in a school setting but not far off it. The closest we got to anything like this was mountain biking with them and even then it was a challenge. The cost of it, safety aspects as well as trying to keep an eye on 6 young people on bikes made it not feasible. We also ran bike workshops where young people learned to build bikes, worked well and they seemed to enjoy it but can't say any were into it enough to take cycling seriously or want to do it. For them the bike is a way of getting around, not for sport. We did have success getting interest in other niche sports but cycling never seemed to take off. The cost for a school, or where I worked, in purchasing the bikes, storing the bikes and maintaining the bikes meant even from our side, without even asking the young people about it, there were too many barriers in the way. Renting mountain bikes took away some of these but we then had the added cost of getting out to the site where it was taking place. Insurance was a huge issue too. One or two lads over the years got into the mountain biking from it, one went on to do an outdoor pursuits course in college and got a bit of work with one of the companies we used.

I love Sean nos · 16-06-2017 09:35AM

Corkagh Park would be a great location for this. Bring the kids via minibus, with the bikes in a trailer.

Chuchote · 16-06-2017 09:38AM

Schools shouldn't have to buy the bikes (though perhaps a government scheme might operate, similar to Bike-to-Work); cycle clubs, for a start, could be those kids with a) bikes and b) interest in cycling.

magicbastarder · 16-06-2017 09:42AM

running school sports at the moment doesn't require the use of public roads, so there are those issues of safety and liability, as well as the sheer manpower required for stewarding, etc.

all you need for one game of various types of football involving 30 kids is one teacher. for a cycle race you'd probably need 10 or more.

Leroy42 · 16-06-2017 09:42AM

Weepsie wrote: »

I'm sorry. Parents should buy and encourage kids to cycle to work, but that is all. This doesn't need or shouldn't require any state intervention beyond promotion.

So unlike every other sport in this country?

You do know that the government gives millions to each of the GAA and Soccer (I am not sure of Rugby but my guess would be it does).

Chuchote · 16-06-2017 09:44AM

Sooo… the cyclists on this forum, going on the replies so far, would generally be hostile to the idea of cycling as a school sport?

randomname2005 · 16-06-2017 09:44AM

greenspurs wrote: »

Route ..... insurance ...... safety .....

The school mine are in, wont allow them wrap their sambos in tin foil FFS !!
Or play football with a "leather ball" only plastic ones ......
Bubble wrapped , lining up the next Snowflake generation !!!

Initially I thought 'wt absolute f', are they worried about tinfoil cuts or something. But it looks like this is an environmental thing, trying to encourage the use of reusable lunchboxes.

Leroy42 · 16-06-2017 09:45AM

magicbastarder wrote: »

running school sports at the moment doesn't require the use of public roads, so there are those issues of safety and liability, as well as the sheer manpower required for stewarding, etc.

all you need for one game of various types of football involving 30 kids is one teacher. for a cycle race you'd probably need 10 or more.

Bu that is only if you focus on road racing. Why not set up a cross course on one of the football pitches. Couple of lines of tape, one coach.

If the kids want to get into road (or any other type) of racing then that is where the clubs come in, and the clubs already have the mentoring systems in place.

joey100 · 16-06-2017 09:45AM

The number of young people with an interest in cycling wouldn't be enough to justify the cost of buying/renting bikes, storing these or if not storing them collecting them and then maintaining them. Even renting a mini bus to get somewhere that the bikes would be supplied would a big enough cost. From my experience BMX and mountain biking are the way to get kids interested in cycling, they are exciting and short enough for them. The problem with these 2 is the insurance required for schools or other organisations to bring young people along. High public liability insurance along with schools and most youth organisations being unable to sign waivers mean that most of these are inaccessible.

The best option would be for cycling Ireland to come to schools and run taster sessions, from this the young people who were most interested could join their local club. This has worked for other sports in the past were the interest wouldn't have been enough for the school to take it on themselves, for example, high board diving, fencing.

Triathlon Ireland run sessions with schools and alongside the sports development officers in DCC. These seem to be going well and interest in the sport is growing. Plenty of kids events popping up on the triathlon Ireland calender.

Out of curiosity how many cycling clubs out there have sections that could cater for 12-15 year olds?

Chuchote · 16-06-2017 09:51AM

God be with the days when a mam or dad could come and get a bunch of kids and take them out for a day's cycling for fun and a picnic.

greenspurs · 16-06-2017 09:54AM

joey100 wrote: »

The best option would be for cycling Ireland to come to schools and run taster sessions, from this the young people who were most interested could join their local club.

Yes, i absolutley agree....
It SHOULD be a no brainer, but theres probably no money in it for the Organisation.....

Leroy42 · 16-06-2017 09:56AM

Weepsie wrote: »

That's not what I said and has been purposely taken out of context. I was specifically talking about racing in schools and having government funded bikes for this reason.

We could be really pedantic and list the numerous sports that don't get funding.

Now a Bike2School scheme is different but that's not what is being mooted here.

There are so many headaches organizing races that it's a non goer and is best left to the clubs.

But it was in the contect of the costs of bikes, insurance etc.

So money is central to that. The other sports get millions to develop their facilities, either through direct grants or lottery funding.

Why not divert some of that to cycling. Buy a few low end cross style bikes, hire a few people to go around and work in the schools, get government to cover the insurance.

We can spend millions on improvement GAA and soccer facilities. All weather pitches, flood lights etc. Money isn't the issue, it is the way it is allocated.

Unlike team sports, which invariably all fall down to winning and losing, cycling is a life skill and is increasingly a form of transport. It should be kept to the forefront of childrens minds.

BTW, I think the same about swimming. Funds should be diverted from the team sports to getting all kids engaged in swimming

Chuchote · 16-06-2017 10:00AM

And cycling is something that could be a lifelong thing; I'm absolutely all for kids playing hurling, soccer, rugger, etc, but wander into Kiely's and you'll see a lot of pregnant chappies who were rugger heroes in their day, and ditto for hurling and Gaelic and soccer champs in their thirties and forties. Whereas once a cyclist, mostly always a cyclist, with the knock-on effect on fitness for the population.

joey100 · 16-06-2017 10:03AM

I know nothing about the working of cycling Ireland, I do know they run the pocket sprocket courses and that's about it. Do they have development officers? My background is in triathlon and I think Triathlon Ireland have 4 development officers who's job it is to promote triathlon across the country but mainly in the area's that they can see room for growth, women in triathlon have been targeted along with young people.

I get that schools should be involved in promoting young people having access to as many different sports as possible, give them a chance to find out what they are good at and what they like, but is some of the onus not on cycling Ireland to help facilitate this?

From working with young people in an out of school setting cycling is a hard sell. The majority of young people just don't see it as a sport. Young people want to compete, they want to measure themselves against each other and road cycling in particular doesn't lend itself to this in a school setting. We used to go BMX'ing with the young people in an indoor track in Cherry Orchard, it was great. DCC were involved, the kids loved it, able tor ace against each other, it had a great turnout and was consistently attended but after nearly every session we had at least 1 young person injured. Parents and funders (probably understandably) didn't like this and we weren't allowed go anymore.

Thud · 16-06-2017 10:10AM

how many/what percentage of kids cycle to school lately?
It was well over 50% when I was in primary school down the country years ago but suspect it is much less nowadays.

Kids grow out of bikes pretty quickly, most start out on hybrid/bmx/mountain type bikes if the seed was planted early enough the few kids that do commute could push parents to buy a road bikes instead of hybrid/mountain bike and equipment wouldn't be so much of an issue.

Chuchote · 16-06-2017 10:14AM

Weepsie wrote: »

There some wonderful sweeping generalisations you're making there.

Only speaking from my own experience of people I've met and known and met. Ah, tis well I remember the night I tried to help an aged derelict up off the road where he was lying in his vomit at Kelly's Corner; a passer-by said "That man scored the winning goal…" and named a famous hurling match. And many's the evening I spent in Kiely's and its like, with bloated old chaps reminiscing on their hero days.

But I'll take it under advisement that a majority of school sports players continue to play into old age.

Thud wrote: »

how many/what percentage of kids cycle to school lately?
It was well over 50% when I was in primary school down the country years ago but suspect it is much less nowadays.

Figures from the latest Census:

http://irishcycle.com/2017/06/15/82000-people-in-ireland-on-their-bikes-as-their-main-mode-of-transport-cencus-2016/

More males at school or college aged between 13 and 18 years cycled to school than drove themselves (6,588 vs 2,971), but far more females drove themselves than cycled (694 [cycling] vs 2,068).

HivemindXX · 16-06-2017 10:19AM

When I was in school we had a cycling team for a short time. Everyone that was interested signed up and tried out on a loop around the local estate. The one and only race against other schools was at the track in Sundrive. There must have been 10 or 20 other schools at it. I have no recollection whatsoever as to how we all (and my in particular) got to Sundrive but I can tell you it wasn't in the non-existent school minibus.

I'd love if that was still a thing but I can't see it working in that way these days. There's no way the school (and their lawyers), parents or local motorists would tolerate racing around a housing estate.

That's not to say there isn't some way to make it work. I just don't see any easy way with the logistics and insurance issues.

I certainly agree that there's no way the school should be buying bikes for these kids and that may unfortunately exclude a lot of kids who can't get one. As others have pointed out there's a gulf between buying a bicycle for everyone and "no funding" though. Most, if not all, sports in school require some funding. If there is interest then I don't see why cycling should get the same support that football or basketball does. I don't think funding alone would make it viable.

It's a tricky idea, but maybe it could be worked out. Something for Shane Ross to think over perhaps.

joey100 · 16-06-2017 10:19AM

I'm not trying to be negative here, I'm just giving my experience but unfortunately that wouldn't work Thud. If young people brought their own bikes and their was damage done to them the school would be liable for fixing this.

I've tried hard to get young people interested in cycling and involved for a few years now in my work. It's hard, it's a lot of work and honestly for the amount who do take it up my time and effort is better placed. Their are just too many obstacles in place to really give it a go. I have ran bike building programmes with bike shops that were really good and the young people enjoyed but once it was over they moved onto something else.

In my opinion this should be targeted by Cycling Ireland. I've working with development officers from Diving Ireland, fencing Ireland, Swim Ireland, Leinster Cricket, amateur boxing association, triathlon Ireland. This takes the pressure off the school to be the expert and gives the young people a good taste of the sport so they can decide themselves if they want to look into it more. I contacted cycling Ireland but was only given info about sprocket rockets.

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