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Islam and the progressive left?

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    #32
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    There is a certain indefinable quality amongst those of us who espouse "left/liberal" values whereby we often give "brown" communities a free pass when their values are at odds with ours because "culture" and because "diversity". At the same time, someone of a similar cultural background to ourselves is mercilessly piloried for expressing views at odds with our own "left/liberal" interpretation of the world. It's an inconsistency and a weakness in character and in conviction. It probably has something to do with collective colonial guilt and a fear of being perceived as racist. We're very quick to utter the platitude "this does not represent Islam!!!" But slow to utter "this does not represent Christianity"


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    #33
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    tiger55 wrote: »
    Its total madness.  You see banners and people on Twitter saying stuff like "LGTB stand will refugees" etc

    Well thats fine, LGB standing with refugees ? Perfectly reasonable.
    What is nuts are sings like "Queers for Islam"
    I mean do they know what sharia law says about homosexuality ?

    Regressive left


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    #34
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    Ulysses Gaze wrote: »
    So they are condescending, patronising Racists then.

    Thats exactly what they are!
    Just look at how patronizing these cretins are



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    #35
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    Hank Scorpio wrote: »
    Like other viewpoints concerning people of that ilk, feelings seem to prevail over facts. In the US, the image of a burqa among certain groups has become some kind of a symbol for Women's rights and the leader of various Women's rights marches, Linda Sarsour, is an advocate for Sharia law.

    Linda Sarsour is a total hypocrite and bully.
    She's a dangerous dangerous person, and being held up as some kind of feminist activist ? what a joke.

    Also lecturing the US on their treatment of LGBT people ? and she advocates sharia law ? where's the ****ing camera


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    #36
    conditioned games
    Registered Users Posts: 683 ✭✭✭conditioned games


    The global elites used WW1 to defeat the Czars of Russia and create communism, they used WW2 to create the state of Israel and expand communism, while WW3 will use Islam as a tool to defeat the West so they can bring in their one world government. These people call themselves progressive left, such as George Soros, Warren Buffett, Rothschilds, Rockefellers etc..


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    #37
    Widdershins
    Registered Users Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    AnGaelach wrote: »
    I think it's some kind of neurosis by the Left to categorise everybody as helpless hapless creatures that need their protection. Certain elements of the Left have gone so far into their delusions that they seem to believe minorities to be, essentially, children needing their hand and their care.

    Whilst some on the Left no doubt see it as merely an electoral ploy to get votes, I believe a great many of them are quite fanatical in their belief. Fanatical to the point of double-think.

    For example, in Sweden the SD (a right-wing party) was demonised for trying to organise a gay pride march because it went through a Muslim area... Think about that for a second. The Left denounced a gay pride rally because it went through a Muslim area.

    Nail on the head.

    These types are racist in a way. They have the most condescending view of minorities' and are quite racist about brown people and therefore Islam. In the ''Racism of low expectations'' sense.

    And I know some extreme Left wing people right at the very far edge of Leftiness. If you go any further Left from them you end up in the sea.


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    #38
    dav3
    Registered Users Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭dav3


    'Progressive' is a pejorative term now? It can be difficult to keep up with the 12 year old american edgelords, every day a new definition of a word. Whatever will they think of next.


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    #39
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    I wonder would the regressive left want a Gay pride march banned in a Christian neighbourhood ? hmmmmmmmmmm


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    #40
    Widdershins
    Registered Users Posts: 10,633 ✭✭✭✭Widdershins


    dav3 wrote: »
    'Progressive' is a pejorative term now? It can be difficult to keep up with the 12 year old american edgelords, every day a new definition of a word. Whatever will they think of next.

    Of course not but they call themselves Progressive and at the same time don't live up to that. Their attitudes are not progressive! I would say ''progressive Left'' is a misnomer.


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    #41
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,338 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    Dafuq?

    No I think the correct spelling is "Dabiq" :) Or at least that is where a certain subsection of them wrote the heart warming article called "Why We Hate You & Why We Fight You"


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    #42
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    AllForIt wrote: »
    ... hopefully they will experience an evolutionary cultural growth like Catholics did in this country in the last 20 or so years.

    Walk us through that please. How does it happen?

    And in your answer treat of the Asian muslims who have lived in Britain for many decades now. They have experienced growth alright but certainly not the 'evolutionary cultural growth' you referred to. Rather than mellow out in any fashion, they have proceeded to produce a crop of 2nd gen terrorists.

    The self-styled progressive left must declare what they are 'progressing' to. Is it some kind of international communism? If so check out what was going in over in Afghanistan in the 80's and have another think about the strategy that sees refugees from muslim lands as the oppressed.


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    #43
    take everything
    Registered Users Posts: 9,800 ✭✭✭take everything


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    Thats exactly what they are!
    Just look at how patronizing these cretins are


    Jaysus that is so telling.
    These people are pathetically unselfaware.


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    #44
    red ears
    Closed Accounts Posts: 945 ✭✭✭red ears


    The Backwards Man wrote: »
    Us libtards won't be laughing when Europe is Islamified eh?


    Or some such bollocks

    You will be gone its your grandchildren who will deal with the results of this liberal naivety.


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    #45
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    The one thing that leftism doesn't and has never acounted for is that there are bad people in the world.

    It works brilliantly on paper but there will always be somebody to abuse the system. Whether it be corruption for more wealth/power, or socially where the meanist kid rules the play ground because he doesn't play by the rules.

    This will always occur, its human nature for an alpha male to take control.

    At the moment Sunni Islam is the alpha male. It doesn't play by conventional rules and if you upset it, it will end brutally.


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    #46
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Islam and the progressive left?

    Maybe it is that they both hate Jews


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    #47
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,127 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    AnGaelach wrote: »
    For example, in Sweden the SD (a right-wing party) was demonised for trying to organise a gay pride march because it went through a Muslim area... Think about that for a second. The Left denounced a gay pride rally because it went through a Muslim area.


    If you'd done a single bit of research you'd see the official Pride organisation and Sweden's LGBT Federation were against it. They released an official statement that said that they wouldn't support such an event since the aims were not to support gay rights but rather to attempt to antogonise people. They also stated that the organizer of the parade had a history of making homophobic statements.

    btw, this is the political party you're talking about. Lovely bunch of lads aren't they.
    Racist incidents[edit]
    The Sweden Democrats have, among all Swedish parliamentary parties, had the largest share of elected municipal representatives resign since the 2010 elections (27.8%).[115] Many of these resignations were brought on by racist statements or actions by these representatives.[115]

    In November 2012, party spokesperson Erik Almqvist resigned after he had been caught on tape making racist and sexist statements.[116] Another video later surfaced, showing how Almqvist, in addition to party spokesperson Kent Ekeroth and party official Christian Westling were arming themselves with aluminium pipes before they sought out a confrontation with Soran Ismail, a Swedish comedian of Kurdish descent.[117]

    In November 2012, parliamentarian Lars Isovaara resigned after accusing two people of foreign origin of stealing his bag (which Isovaara had left at a restaurant) and then proceeding to verbally abuse a security guard of a foreign background.[118] Isovaara's replacement in parliament, Markus Wiechel, was found in April 2013 to have referred to a group of black people as "monkeys".[119]

    In March 2013, 12 individuals were thrown out of the party for their involvement in neo-Nazi or other extremist movements.[120]

    In November 2013, parliamentarian and then vice party leader Jonas Åkerlund gained attention for having called immigrants "parasites" during a broadcast on SD's own radio station in 2002, after the recording was publicly rediscovered. In his defence, Åkerlund stated that he only said it to provoke people.[121]

    In September 2014, a few weeks before the general election, the party chairman of the local Stockholm branch, Christoffer Dulny resigned from his position. He had been posting mocking comments about immigrants, calling them "shameless liers" on alternative media sites.[122] He also resigned from his newly won position in the parliament on the same day he was elected, 29 September 2014.[123]

    In October 2016, a video of the parliamentarian and economic policy spokesperson Oscar Sjöstedt making antisemitic jokes was released. Whilst at a party, believed to have taken place in 2011, he laughingly told a story about former co-workers with Nazi sympathies mocking Jews and comparing them to sheep.[124]

    During the same month, the parliamentarian and second vice party leader Carina Herrstedt was confronted with having sent an allegedly racist, antisemitic, homophobic and antiziganist email to her then spouse in 2011. The email, which had been leaked from the party's internal servers, for instance contained phrases that named black football players from the team Landskrona BoIS as **** whilst also picturing Romani people as thieves.[125]

    In December 2016, the parliamentarian Anna Hagwall was thrown out of the party after using arguments associated with antisemitism to argue for a bill that she introduced in parliament intended to reduce concentration of media ownership in Sweden.[126]


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    #48
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,853 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    AnGaelach wrote: »
    I think it's some kind of neurosis by the Left to categorise everybody as helpless hapless creatures that need their protection. Certain elements of the Left have gone so far into their delusions that they seem to believe minorities to be, essentially, children needing their hand and their care.

    Whilst some on the Left no doubt see it as merely an electoral ploy to get votes, I believe a great many of them are quite fanatical in their belief. Fanatical to the point of double-think.

    For example, in Sweden the SD (a right-wing party) was demonised for trying to organise a gay pride march because it went through a Muslim area... Think about that for a second. The Left denounced a gay pride rally because it went through a Muslim area.

    "The Left" did all that?

    Everyone on "The Left" did all of that?

    Really? :rolleyes:


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    #49
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,338 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    It is lamentable that this "left/right" partisan language of the US has invaded our discourse over here. It is such a nonsense as Zebra3 just highlighted. And all too often....... in my experience nearly all of the time........ it is just a linguistic move to run away from a persons particular point and attack a vague generalization instead.

    With this level of discourse you can just ignore anything a person says and say "Oh that point is so liberal/left/right/conservative and the problem with liberabls/lefts/rights/conservatives is..........." and run away on some irrelevant tangent. It is the discourse move, generally, of a coward or someone without an actual argument to make.

    Take Snow's comment about that "the left" will "associate mistreatment of single mothers with catholicism" but declare IS "has nothing to do with islam". How come everyone I ever debate with instantly puts me on the left then, yet I very much DO look to Islam and Islamic doctrines when evaluating the actions of IS, and I very much do side with the people who lambaste Obama and Clinton and the like for not talking that talking, and always hamming around the issue? In fact did I not on this very THREAD quote an article by such people TELLING the west why they hate us and why they fight us?

    This left/right nonsense people spew.... they do not care if it actually fits. They can just assert it and run, without a care if 1 million people or only 1 person actually fits their narrative. Political opinions and ideals are a SPECTRUM of values, but the simplistic thinkers in our world want to force it into one of two boxes every time. Which makes THEM, not the people they box, the ones that are engaged in "predictable" and "sheep" thinking.


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    #50
    SkepticQuark
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭SkepticQuark


    tiger55 wrote: »
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS1z7hJPzY0

    You lost me as soon as Paul Joseph Watson appeared. Using an Infowars "journalist" piece would be like me posting a TYT clip.


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    #51
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    "The Left" did all that?

    Everyone on "The Left" did all of that?

    Really? :rolleyes:

    So that Norwegian Breivik is not a warning about right wing extremism, because he is only one person?

    Am I doing your logic right?


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    #52
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,127 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    topper75 wrote: »
    So that Norwegian Breivik is not a warning about right wing extremism, because he is only one person?

    Am I doing your logic right?

    No. Yours mixing up the boundaries of the sets your using.

    Islamic terrorist is not reflective of Islam.

    However Norwegian righting terrorist can be indicative of right wing extremism. It's not however reflective of right wing politics. That would be like saying that Leo Varadkar is related to right wing terrorism because he's right wing.


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    #53
    SkepticQuark
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭SkepticQuark


    snow_jon wrote: »
    the left like to rebel against the establishment and status quo , christianity is viewed as being part of that establishment , islam is viewed as not and quite exotic , so gets a pass

    lefties are extremely predictable and sheep like in how they think

    This is what I find most frustrating with posters like you. One minute it's "the left", next it's "progressive left", next it's "lefties", next it's "libtards", next it's "liberals"...

    Which one is it and what does your choice label mean? Is it anyone who doesn't agree with you? If so that's as bad as many on the fringes of the left who call anyone who disagrees with them anti-Islamic racists etc.

    People on the conservative side of the compass or people who call themselves "alt-right" are rightly allowed to point out that there is a hugely diverse range of opinions on every issue so it's wrong to lump everyone together when talking about specific issues. But when people want to criticize "the left" they can use catch-all phrases and get away with it while the rest of their buddies join in on the circle jerk about how those damn libtards are ruining the west.

    As someone on "the left" as you like to call it I disagree with others on many issues, I fundamentally disagree with people who say Islam has absolutely nothing to do with radical Islamic terrorism but I also fundamentally disagree with people who then say things like we should throw them all out or straight up ban the entire religion. People like you and people on the fringes of the left seem to have forgotten that people don't fall into neat boxes that you can just randomly slander.


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    #54
    Il Fascista
    Closed Accounts Posts: 199 ✭✭Il Fascista


    Grayson wrote: »

    Islamic terrorist is not reflective of Islam.

    The irony of you saying that in this thread.


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    #55
    Tayschren
    Closed Accounts Posts: 186 ✭✭Tayschren


    Sweetemotion wrote: »
    What's going on there?

    Is it two fingers to the big bogey white man or just the turkeys voting for Christmas?

    2010 want its thread back,

    fake news, fake victims, fake education.


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    #56
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,127 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Il Fascista wrote: »
    The irony of you saying that in this thread.

    You really didn't understand what I said.

    You can't look at islamic terrorists and extend that to all of islam. Just like you can't look at a right wing terrorist and extend that to all of the right wing.


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    #57
    nozzferrahhtoo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,338 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo


    roddy15 wrote: »
    Which one is it and what does your choice label mean?

    What is funny is that one time on this forum, and one time on another forum I am often on (city data) I have had people do the same crap. Label me with some word like "leftist".

    But then later on another thread when I was arguing another topic with the same users entirely, they accused me of being some far right wing nut.

    So keen are they to slap on a label to attack, rather than replying to the actual users own words, they do not even stop to check if they labeled you before.

    So I am apparently some right wing left wing centre nut job :)

    To be honest I can not identify consistently with either. I agree with about 40% of the US left and 40% of the US right in their claims, ideas and policies. The partisan divide means nothing to me. I am all over the spectrum depending on the topic at hand.


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    #58
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,853 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    topper75 wrote: »
    So that Norwegian Breivik is not a warning about right wing extremism, because he is only one person?

    Am I doing your logic right?

    No, you're not. Not even close to it.


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    #59
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    No, you're not. Not even close to it.

    So you can logic that way.

    But I can't.

    Aha! Yet another double standard. Should carry a health warning reading those posts.


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    #60
    topper75
    Registered Users Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    Grayson wrote: »
    No. Yours mixing up the boundaries of the sets your using.

    Islamic terrorist is not reflective of Islam.

    However Norwegian righting terrorist can be indicative of right wing extremism. It's not however reflective of right wing politics. That would be like saying that Leo Varadkar is related to right wing terrorism because he's right wing.

    That poster was expressing disquiet at inductive reasoning about 'the Left'.

    I applied it the other way. Lead balloon!


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    #61
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    AllForIt wrote: »
    Now if you said Islamists and the progressive left then I think there would be a problem.

    I think Muslims have every right be Muslims and hopefully they will experience an evolutionary cultural growth like Catholics did in this country in the last 20 or so years.

    How patronising.

    Typical arrogant western attitude tbh.


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