B&I LIONS vs Blues: Wed @ 08h35

laurie88 · 07-06-2017 10:52pm

Synode wrote: »

Agree 100%. Lions didn't deserve to win but can feel hard done by that decision

um ah "%*£bullsh_t!!:

irishman86 · 08-06-2017 11:36am

pickarooney wrote: »

It's hardly rocket science, in fairness. I see 12 year olds running those kinds of plays. It's the fear of what happens if it doesn't come off that absolutely kills European rugby.

Yup its happening even in French rugby now. I did a spot of kids rugby coaching a few years back but couldnt stick it. There was so much screaming about holding the ball. These were 14 year old boys who had parents screaming at them and takes all the fun out of the game. As the season went on they stopped trying to do anything. The second year I put a rule that any parent that screams at the kids would end up with there son getting subbed and it was better. I didnt do a third year as it was to much hassle
Its not a rugby problem only I had the same difficulties with soccer here

awec · 08-06-2017 11:50am

pickarooney wrote: »

It's hardly rocket science, in fairness. I see 12 year olds running those kinds of plays. It's the fear of what happens if it doesn't come off that absolutely kills European rugby.

You might see 12 year olds do it but these guys have that sort of stuff coached out of them by the time they get to play test rugby.

Too dangerous to play in your own half and all that. Offloading is too risky, recycle the ball as fast as you can instead.

The most frustrating thing is this style is usually very successful in the NH. I kind of wish it wasn't. I wish the SH coaches would come up here and change how the game is played instead of playing this stuff, but I appreciate they are brought here, paid a lot and are put under huge pressure to win almost every game with improving the style and skills being a distant second.

phog · 08-06-2017 12:44pm

Downright dumb or understandable? The 13 Lions penalties conceded against the Blues examined

aloooof · 08-06-2017 2:14pm

awec wrote: »

You might see 12 year olds do it but these guys have that sort of stuff coached out of them by the time they get to play test rugby.

Too dangerous to play in your own half and all that. Offloading is too risky, recycle the ball as fast as you can instead.

The most frustrating thing is this style is usually very successful in the NH. I kind of wish it wasn't. I wish the SH coaches would come up here and change how the game is played instead of playing this stuff, but I appreciate they are brought here, paid a lot and are put under huge pressure to win almost every game with improving the style and skills being a distant second.

Hard to disagree with this, but Pat Lam and more recently Wayne Pivac have proved these things are not mutually exclusive and that improving skills may, in fact, be the template for success (in the Pro12 at least).

I accept there's an argument that Connacht and Scarlets had more licence to try this type of rugby, and their lack of end-of-season European action possibly helped their respective Pro12 wins, but I'm hoping this is the start of a more general trend towards more expansive rugby.

molloyjh · 08-06-2017 2:53pm

awec wrote: »

You might see 12 year olds do it but these guys have that sort of stuff coached out of them by the time they get to play test rugby.

Too dangerous to play in your own half and all that. Offloading is too risky, recycle the ball as fast as you can instead.

The most frustrating thing is this style is usually very successful in the NH. I kind of wish it wasn't. I wish the SH coaches would come up here and change how the game is played instead of playing this stuff, but I appreciate they are brought here, paid a lot and are put under huge pressure to win almost every game with improving the style and skills being a distant second.

Well it is a professional sport, so winning is always going to be the priority, no matter the hemisphere.

Also, this whole thing about SH and NH seems a bit disingenuous to me. The Lions aren't playing the SH, they are playing NZ. Do people really think if they were touring Australia or South Africa we'd be seeing the same stuff?

The complaints here seem to be that a team that's only been together a few weeks isn't as good as Kiwi teams that have been together months. And look how they've been going in Super Rugby. It's okay to admit that these guys are just better at playing rugby. It doesn't have to be yet another chance to have a moan about our guys.

Sure we need to review how we play the game to a degree. And we are, in case any of you have missed the numerous changes here in Ireland over the last year or two. But that doesn't just automatically appear in the senior sides straight away. Guys at senior level tend not to offload, not because their senior coach won't allow them to, but because they simply don't have the skill levels generally speaking as it wasn't something they were learning early on. And as research has shown, if you start looking to develop new skill levels beyond the age of around 16 you get decreasing returns from it the later you try to develop them. That's exactly why the onus has changed here in terms of skills development.

But let's not start this NH/SH thing. NZ teams have been spanking teams from other countries all season so far. This isn't a hemisphere issue. It's just a sign of how good NZ are and how far ahead of the general curve they are right now.

Braken · 08-06-2017 4:27pm

awec wrote: »

You might see 12 year olds do it but these guys have that sort of stuff coached out of them by the time they get to play test rugby.

Too dangerous to play in your own half and all that. Offloading is too risky, recycle the ball as fast as you can instead.

The most frustrating thing is this style is usually very successful in the NH. I kind of wish it wasn't. I wish the SH coaches would come up here and change how the game is played instead of playing this stuff, but I appreciate they are brought here, paid a lot and are put under huge pressure to win almost every game with improving the style and skills being a distant second.

Penny tried but didn't last too long

TomsOnTheRoof · 08-06-2017 5:44pm

Braken wrote: »

Penny tried but didn't last too long

Penney tried to implement a 2-4-2 system whereby forwards out wide supply you with quick ruck ball. This was ineffective because, despite fast service, the attacking line was too deep. As such players taking the ball into contact are already behind the gain line thus negating the benefits of fast ruck ball in the first place.

Lam played a 1-3-3-1 system with Connacht. This hinged on pods of forwards taking the ball flat to the gain line and either crashing it up or playing it out the back where the depth of the back line wasn't an issue as the immediate defenders outside of the ruck were drawn in. Lam worked long and hard to up-skill the Connacht pack in order to enable them to play like this.

It's true that Penney was met with some resistance in Munster but the idea that he was some visionary who was branded a heretic by the Munster faithful is a load of rubbish.

LDN18 · 08-06-2017 7:23pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Well it is a professional sport, so winning is always going to be the priority, no matter the hemisphere.

Also, this whole thing about SH and NH seems a bit disingenuous to me. The Lions aren't playing the SH, they are playing NZ. Do people really think if they were touring Australia or South Africa we'd be seeing the same stuff?

The complaints here seem to be that a team that's only been together a few weeks isn't as good as Kiwi teams that have been together months. And look how they've been going in Super Rugby. It's okay to admit that these guys are just better at playing rugby. It doesn't have to be yet another chance to have a moan about our guys.

Sure we need to review how we play the game to a degree. And we are, in case any of you have missed the numerous changes here in Ireland over the last year or two. But that doesn't just automatically appear in the senior sides straight away. Guys at senior level tend not to offload, not because their senior coach won't allow them to, but because they simply don't have the skill levels generally speaking as it wasn't something they were learning early on. And as research has shown, if you start looking to develop new skill levels beyond the age of around 16 you get decreasing returns from it the later you try to develop them. That's exactly why the onus has changed here in terms of skills development.

But let's not start this NH/SH thing. NZ teams have been spanking teams from other countries all season so far. This isn't a hemisphere issue. It's just a sign of how good NZ are and how far ahead of the general curve they are right now.

Yes you would still see it as the golden lions,stormers and even sharks would beat that lions team

Christy42 · 08-06-2017 9:05pm

LDN18 wrote: »

Yes you would still see it as the golden lions,stormers and even sharks would beat that lions team

I would not get on them beating Ireland or England though.

molloyjh · 08-06-2017 9:28pm

LDN18 wrote: »

Yes you would still see it as the golden lions,stormers and even sharks would beat that lions team

Golden Lions? Eh no.

Stormers had over 50 points put on them by both Crusaders and Highlanders this season and over 40 by Hurricanes. So yeah, that sort of proves my point.

When Sharks last played a NZ side they lost 41-0 to Hurricanes.