Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

1eg0a3xv7b82of · 07-06-2017 08:05PM

The real mccoy 91 wrote: »

Ah jaysus would ya stop

hartley should be there anyway as he is a good player and a good captain.
for me the four national captains should always be there to provide leadership and to help the lions coaching team.

also ringrose should have went from the start as it is centres like him and joseph that new zealand do not want to play against.
henshaw and davies partnership is what the all blacks want to start as their skill levels are no where near good enough, they are one dimensional players.
the all blacks are prepared for warrenball.

The real mccoy 91 · 07-06-2017 08:16PM

Lyra Long Drug wrote:

hartley should be there anyway as he is a good player and a good captain. for me the four national captains should always be there to provide leadership and to help the lions coaching team.

Have to disagree there hartley was abysmal in the 6 nations and didn't come close to nearly deserving a spot on the plane in terms of form and can't be brought as just a passenger.

Lyra Long Drug wrote:

also ringrose should have went from the start as it is centres like him and joseph that new zealand do not want to play against. henshaw and davies partnership is what the all blacks want to start as their skill levels are no where near good enough, they are one dimensional players. the all blacks are prepared for warrenball.

Ringrose was very much outplayed by Davies when they met last month and I can't agree that their skill levels aren't good enough Davies is the form centre in the northern hemisphere at the moment and is flying while henshaw is consistently solid in defence and showed some glimpses of good go forward play today. If ringrose was there I'd fear he would get eaten up and spat back out against the power of the blacks he would also be exposed defensively if he didn't have payne in the team with him

swiwi_ · 07-06-2017 08:20PM

I was disappointed in Henshaw today. Crabbed across field a fair bit. I've not changed my view one iota that he's a 13. The Lions tests team should be starting to firm quite early, a few more players didn't help themselves today.

awec · 07-06-2017 08:24PM

swiwi_ wrote: »

I was disappointed in Henshaw today. Crabbed across field a fair bit. I've not changed my view one iota that he's a 13. The Lions tests team should be starting to firm quite early, a few more players didn't help themselves today.

You and I swiwi, the lone voices in a sea of deniers.

Yeah_Right · 07-06-2017 08:50PM

Lyra Long Drug wrote: »

hartley should be there anyway as he is a good player and a good captain.
for me the four national captains should always be there to provide leadership and to help the lions coaching team.

I'd love to see Hartley tour NZ. Guaranteed red card. Some of his old BOP mates would love to tune him up.

07-06-2017 09:18PM

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I'd love to see Hartley tour NZ. Guaranteed red card. Some of his old BOP mates would love to tune him up.

The Lions could do with a red card and a dust up.

Real lack of intent and malaise. So far doesn't look like a cohesive camp and there are no O'Connell's or the like to lay down the law.

swiwi_ · 07-06-2017 09:19PM

Time for a stab at the 33 man AB squad

Props
TH - Franks & Faumuina
LH - Moody & Crockett
Both sides - Tu'ungafasi

Don't really rate Tu'ungafasi, but the selectors do. If they go with 3 LH & 3 TH I would take the 2 Chiefs lads Laulala & Hames

Hookers
Coles
Taylor
Harris

If Coles is out (looking very likely), then probably Coltman from the Highlanders. An area of NZ weakness according to Buer...

Locks
Retallick
Whitelock
Romano
Barrett

Selectors shouldn't need to waste too much time debating here

Loosies
Cane
Read
Savea
Kaino
Squire

Then there is a bunfight between Matt Todd (in excellent form), Steven Luatua, and possibly Brad Shields.

Halfbacks
Perenara
Smith
Kerr-Barlow

No selection difficulties here. Perenera should start with Kerr-Barlow on the bench, but I doubt Hansen sees it that way.

1st-fives
Barrett
Cruden
Sopoaga

Easy-peasy selecting again

Midfield
Crotty
Williams
Lienert-Brown
Fekitoa

There have been some excellent performances from the Canes midfielders and Goodhue from the Crusaders, as well as players like Buckman etc, but I think this will be the 4 chosen

Outside backs
Too much choice: Smith, Savea, Dagg, Naholo, Milner-Skudder, McKenzie, Barrett, Ioane...players like James Lowe not in the frame (will play for the Maori though for sure). An area NZ always has plenty of depth in. Not even sure Piutau would get a look in.

pickarooney · 07-06-2017 09:30PM

Any chance of Havili or Laumape getting a call up?

07-06-2017 09:32PM

awec wrote: »

You and I swiwi, the lone voices in a sea of deniers.

Head into the Connacht thread I think more than one person in there has said it

.ak · 07-06-2017 09:33PM

Any word on Biggar and Payne?

swiwi_ · 07-06-2017 09:35PM

pickarooney wrote: »

Any chance of Havili or Laumape getting a call up?

No, I don't think so. NZ will take a large squad north to Europe in November, and those two will definitely be in with a chance. Outside backs are incredibly competitive at present, which won't help Havili.

I thought Laumape was a one-dimensional ex-league player last season, but much improved this season.

Havili is really young for a guy who seems to have been around for a good while. At one stage it was rumoured the French clubs were chasing him, but then he resigned through until 2019. He should definitely play on Saturday, might keep Dagg out of the starting XV again, we see.

Buer · 07-06-2017 09:41PM

.ak wrote:

Any word on Biggar and Payne?

Biggar will be fine according to Gatland. Fitness wise, I mean. He'll still be a twat.

Tigerandahalf · 07-06-2017 09:56PM

Looking at the game today my Lions test team would now be

Halfpenny
Hogg
L Williams

Teo/Henshaw
Davies

Farrell
Murray

Faletau
Warburton/Tipuric
Stander

AWJ
Itoje

Furlong
Owens
McGrath

Given the dearth of a creative backline the Lions will need their best goalkicker in Halfpenny.
Sexton to me looks finished. Sad to see but even at his best I have had my doubts.

The backrow looked very strong at one stage but with Vunipola out and Warburton well out of form things are looking less good. Haskell was very poor today, at fault for the first try. Stander has heart but you won't get too many offloads from him.

Henshaw was quite today but didn't do anything wrong either. Not sure if he has the pace or passing for 13. Teo is a Gatland type player though.

AWJ is needed for his leadership and workrate and I think Itoje will get better as the tour goes on.

The front row picks itself.

Worrying how little set piece plays the Lions are showing. Are they holding moves back for the Tests or is this it I wonder?

irelandrover · 07-06-2017 09:58PM

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Looking at the game today my Lions test team would now be

Halfpenny
Hogg
L Williams

Teo/Henshaw
Davies

Farrell
Murray

Faletau
Warburton/Tipuric
Stander

AWJ
Itoje

Furlong
Owens
McGrath

Given the dearth of a creative backline the Lions will need their best goalkicker in Halfpenny.
Sexton to me looks finished. Sad to see but even at his best I have had my doubts.

The backrow looked very strong at one stage but with Vunipola out and Warburton well out of form things are looking less good. Haskell was very poor today, at fault for the first try. Stander has heart but you won't get too many offloads from him.

Henshaw was quite today but didn't do anything wrong either. Not sure if he has the pace or passing for 13. Teo is a Gatland type player though.

AWJ is needed for his leadership and workrate and I think Itoje will get better as the tour goes on.

The front row picks itself.

Worrying how little set piece plays the Lions are showing. Are they holding moves back for the Tests or is this it I wonder?

Is Halfpenny really necessary as a goalkicker when Farrell is on the pitch?

Tigerandahalf · 07-06-2017 10:29PM

irelandrover wrote: »

Is Halfpenny really necessary as a goalkicker when Farrell is on the pitch?

I would think so. Farrell can be very hit and miss. Great some days but then can struggle to 50% other days. Halfpenny is a proven kicker under pressure and the Lions will need to take every score to have a chance. His kick out wide today was excellent.

I think he will get better too as the series goes on. I don't fancy Hogg at full back. Defensively he is very flaky but you could accommodate him on the wing as he is a good counter attacker.

Overall I don't think a single back has shone yet. The downside of these tough early matches is that back players don't get a chance to shine and build up a run of tries.

Gatland reckons it will prepare the players for the test matches but injuries could play a big part in that yet. These tough games will test the fitness levels of the players though it seems Gatland is going to give all the players a good run out.

Christy42 · 07-06-2017 11:18PM

irelandrover wrote: »

Is Halfpenny really necessary as a goalkicker when Farrell is on the pitch?

F that is Hogg really needed on the pitch for any reason?

.ak · 08-06-2017 12:23AM

Christy42 wrote: »

F that is Hogg really needed on the pitch for any reason?

Stuart Hogg, 6N POTY? Hmm...

swiwi_ · 08-06-2017 04:50AM

pickarooney wrote: »

Any chance of Havili or Laumape getting a call up?

Laumape will definitely get selected, you heard it here first

AB Squad to face the B&I Lions

Forwards
Props: Franks, Faumuina, Moody, Crockett, Tu'ungafasi
Hookers: Coles, Taylor, Harris
Locks: Retallick, Whitelock, Romano, Barrett
Loosies: Cane, Read, Savea, Kaino, Squire

Backs
Scrumhalves: Perenara, Smith, Kerr-Barlow
Flyhalves: Barrett, Cruden, Sopoaga
Midfield: Crotty, Williams, Lienert-Brown, Laumape*
Outside backs: Smith, Savea, Dagg, Naholo, Barrett*, Ioane

Injury standby - Coltman for Coles, Fifita for Retallick, Goodhue for Crotty, Akira Ioane for Kaino and Matt Todd just because.

Talking points

Matt Todd highly unlucky, but 3 opensides is a luxury I suppose
Steven Luatua misses out
Fekitoa has been dropped cold. He has no Maori blood either, so it's good news for sydthebeat's Highlanders. He has defended well all year, but has been dodgy at times on attack. Didn't see that coming though. To rub salt into the wound, uncapped Jack Goodhue has been named as injury backup to Crotty.
Damian McKenzie misses out to Jordie Barrett
NMS for the Maori - just not enough time to force his way in. A Maori back three of NMS, McKenzie and James Lowe is very tasty.

The Pheasant2 · 08-06-2017 04:56AM

Joe Moody
Codie Taylor
Owen Franks
Luke Romano
Sam Whitelock (C)
Heiden Bedwell-Curtis
Matt Todd (VC)
Jordan Taufua

Bryn Hall
Richie Mo'unga
George Bridge
David Havili
Jack Goodhue
Seta Tamanivalu
Israel Dagg

RESERVES

16 Ben Funnell
17 Wyatt Crockett
18 Michael Alaalatoa
19 Quinten Strange
20 Jed Brown
21 Mitchell Drummond
22 Mitchell Hunt
23 Tim Bateman

swiwi_ · 08-06-2017 05:11AM

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Joe Moody
Codie Taylor
Owen Franks
Luke Romano
Sam Whitelock (C)
Heiden Bedwell-Curtis
Matt Todd (VC)
Jordan Taufua

Bryn Hall
Richie Mo'unga
George Bridge
David Havili
Jack Goodhue
Seta Tamanivalu
Israel Dagg

RESERVES

16 Ben Funnell
17 Wyatt Crockett
18 Michael Alaalatoa
19 Quinten Strange
20 Jed Brown
21 Mitchell Drummond
22 Mitchell Hunt
23 Tim Bateman

The main point of note is Havili moving to 12 for the injured Crotty. Havili has been going so well at 15 I thought Robertson might have resisted the change.

swiwi_ · 08-06-2017 05:25AM

The full Maori All Blacks squad: FORWARDS Chris Eves, Kane Hames, Mike Kainga, Ben May, Marcel Renata, Ash Dixon (c), Hikawera Elliot, Tom Franklin, Leighton Price, Joe Wheeler, Elliot Dixon, Akira Ioane, Liam Messam, Reed Prinsep, Kara Pryor

BACKS: Bryn Hall, Te Toiroa Tahuriorangi, Otere Black, Ihaia West, Tim Batemen, Charlie Ngatai, Matt Proctor, Rob Thompson, James Lowe, Damian McKenzie, Nehe Milner Skudder, Declan O'Donnell

That squad is definitely beatable by the Lions, I thought it would be stronger TBH. The Maori will have a good midfield and outstanding back 3 though.

Christy42 · 08-06-2017 07:22AM

.ak wrote: »

Stuart Hogg, 6N POTY? Hmm...

While I am happy for him I did not particularly expect him to keep it up. Plus if we are making a tram for the tests it has to fairly weighted to how they are playing in NZ. Limited sample size and he should get another go but that was fairly bad game he had at the weekend.

Erik Shin · 08-06-2017 07:38AM

O'Mahony and O'Brien starting against the crusaders

irishbucsfan · 08-06-2017 07:40AM

Erik Shin wrote: »

O'Mahony and O'Brien starting against the crusaders

the team is:

British & Irish Lions (v Crusaders, Saturday, June 10, AMI Stadium, 7.35pm NZST/8.35am BST)

15 Stuart Hogg – Glasgow Warriors, Scotland, 783
14 George North – Northampton Saints, Wales, #792
13 Jonathan Davies – Scarlets, Wales, #778
12 Ben Te’o – Worcester Warriors, England, #815
11 Liam Williams – Scarlets, Wales, #832
10 Owen Farrell – Saracens, England, #780
9 Conor Murray – Munster, Ireland, #790

1 Mako Vunipola – Saracens, England, #787
2 Jamie George – Saracens, England, #818
3 Tadhg Furlong – Leinster, Ireland, #817
4 Alun Wyn Jones (capt) – Ospreys, Wales, #761
5 George Kruis – Saracens, England, #819
6 Peter O’Mahony – Munster, Ireland, #833
7 Sean O’Brien – Leinster, Ireland, #796
8 Taulupe Faletau – Bath Rugby, Wales, #779

Replacements
16 Ken Owens – Scarlets, Wales, #829
17 Jack McGrath – Leinster, Ireland, #827
18 Dan Cole – Leicester, England, #794
19 Maro Itoje – Saracens, England, #825
20 CJ Stander – Munster, Ireland, #831
21 Rhys Webb – Ospreys, Wales, #820
22 Johnny Sexton – Leinster, Ireland, #791
23 Anthony Watson – Bath Rugby, England, #816

Buer · 08-06-2017 08:15AM

I suspect we're already getting very close to the test 23 based on that selection. Maybe some of the guys on the bench come into the starting team and a few drop out.

I would say 18 of the above are going to be in the 23 for the first test. Dan Cole and the two Irish flankers are probably the least likely right now.

Based on the above selection, SOB is likely to get 80 minutes (if he can last). Stander could get a run out at 6 but I wouldn't be shocked to see him come on at 8 and Itoje get 20 minutes at 6.

I also reckon we might see Sexton come on for the last 15-20 and Farrell move to 12.

Buer · 08-06-2017 08:17AM

.ak wrote: »

Stuart Hogg, 6N POTY? Hmm...

But that means absolutely nothing in this arena and it's extremely different doing it in the 6N and doing it for the Lions in NZ. He has started poorly. There are multiple options for the 15 jersey. He's already playing catch up.

I always expected Halfpenny to get the nod for the test team. Halfpenny gave a consumate Halfpenny performance yesterday. He was tidy, comfortable and kicked his goals really well. That's all Gatland needs.

molloyjh · 08-06-2017 08:20AM

That he was kicking at goal yesterday in general suggested to me that he was all but nailed on. Was he taking all of them or just the long range ones?

Buer · 08-06-2017 08:20AM

Based on that NZ squad, there's going to be a very strong team available to the Hurricanes. NMS and Jane to be in the back three and, potentially, Jordie Barrett too if he's released back which I would imagine is quite likely.

What's the Lions best chance of a win now? The Maori game, I would guess. The Chiefs and Hurricanes are playing them on a Wednesday before a test match so it's going to be dirt trackers galore.

Buer · 08-06-2017 08:23AM

molloyjh wrote: »

That he was kicking at goal yesterday in general suggested to me that he was all but nailed on. Was he taking all of them or just the long range ones?

All of them.

I'm not being smart but I don't know why people would have been surprised with this. It's a pressure cooker environment for kicking goals and Halfpenny showed his class in that regard on the last tour. If the difference between being in contention and being out of touch is a couple of missed kicks, Halfpenny was always going to be a very likely starter.

I could still be eating my words but I don't see him missing out. Halfpenny, Watson, North and Williams for the test 23 is my prediction.

irelandrover · 08-06-2017 08:27AM

Buer wrote: »

All of them.

I'm not being smart but I don't know why people would have been surprised with this. It's a pressure cooker environment for kicking goals and Halfpenny showed his class in that regard on the last tour. If the difference between being in contention and being out of touch is a couple of missed kicks, Halfpenny was always going to be a very likely starter.

I could still be eating my words but I don't see him missing out. Halfpenny, Watson, North and Williams for the test 23 is my prediction.

I just dont see the lions winning based on kicks at goal. I also dont think the differences between Hogg and Halfpenny in defence are massive.

I'd rather Hogg there as he has the ability to score tries from very little which is a talent that the Lions dont have very much of.

Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

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