Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

CMOTDibbler · 07-06-2017 04:05PM

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Is there any rule that would explicitly deem the following tactic unlawful :

Knocking the ball on deliberately when in possession, winning a penalty from the subsequent scrum and kicking for territory/points. Rinse and repeat.

I'm asking for a friend W. Gatland....wait that's too obvious, eh let's just call him Warren G ( regulate)

Dangerous tactic. Firstly, the opposition can take possession and play the advantage and secondly, there's never a guarantee that the resulting scrum will always bring a penalty. Refs these days like to see the ball played from the scrum if available. So a good hook and quick pickup even in reverse will be allowed play on.

P.Walnuts · 07-06-2017 04:09PM

Basil3 wrote: »

http://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=12&language=EN

I'm fairly certain the Nz public could be duped into believing all the knock ons were just poor skills and bad handling.

I remember thinking during the 'Tom Court at Tighthead Twickenham' game that England should just knock on at every opportunity, turns out they didn't have to but still...

Thelomen Toblackai · 07-06-2017 04:10PM

Be safer just to create a maul and go nowhere or lie on the ball in a ruck so it's unplayable.

07-06-2017 04:11PM

P.Walnuts wrote: »

I'm fairly certain the Nz public could be duped into believing all the knock ons were just poor skills and bad handling.

I remember thinking during the 'Tom Court at Tighthead Twickenham' game that England should just knock on at every opportunity, turns out they didn't have to but still...

The thing is that a scrum wouldn't be played that often. Try it against the AB's, they just pick the ball up, play advantage and score under the sticks. Not a smart tactic.

irishbucsfan · 07-06-2017 04:12PM

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Is there any rule that would explicitly deem the following tactic unlawful :

Knocking the ball on deliberately when in possession, winning a penalty from the subsequent scrum and kicking for territory/points. Rinse and repeat.

I'm asking for a friend W. Gatland....wait that's too obvious, eh let's just call him Warren G ( regulate)

This is kind of what happens when a team is dominant in the scrum. Not intentional knock ons, but play that encourages scrummaging. The more kicks there are the more set pieces there will be for example. You don't have to knock the ball on intentionally, just play riskier. So long as you trust your defense the penalties come.

irishbucsfan · 07-06-2017 04:13PM

Basil3 wrote: »

The thing is that a scrum wouldn't be played that often. Try it against the AB's, they just pick the ball up, play advantage and score under the sticks. Not a smart tactic.

Well I'd imagine in this example if you're "intentionally" knocking it on you'll just jump on the ball before the opposition recover it, or jump on them... You'd have a degree of control over it.

07-06-2017 04:13PM

Thelomen Toblackai wrote: »

Be safer just to create a maul and go nowhere or lie on the ball in a ruck so it's unplayable.

First tactic probably best. Second one would get you penalised.

Thelomen Toblackai · 07-06-2017 04:16PM

Basil3 wrote: »

First tactic probably best. Second one would get you penalised.

If you have possession but can't get it out of the ruck it's unplayable and you retain possession for the scrum right? Assuming you pull it off. As long as you're not impeding the opposition from contesting you wouldn't be penalised.

07-06-2017 04:18PM

I much prefer the kiwi mentality to rugby.

Just score as many tries as possible.

buck65 · 07-06-2017 04:52PM

Good God this Lions thing is a joke, Warren G has hardly ever defeated a SH team with Wales, we go down and play bish bash bosh and hope to beat NZ?
Ridiculous, we are going to get hammered. No invention , the selection says it all.

Buer · 07-06-2017 04:55PM

buck65 wrote: »

Ridiculous, we are going to get hammered. No invention , the selection says it all.

Who is at home that you'd have brought? I can only think of one or two others who might have brought more creativity (without being notably worse players overall) than those out there, to be honest.

nice_guy80 · 07-06-2017 05:10PM

would you let Gatland and co. coach your club's U12 team?

HankScorpio102 · 07-06-2017 05:18PM

wp_rathead wrote: »

Going by players who haven't seen much rugby yet could be something like this for Saturday game:
Mako-George-Furlong
Kruis -?
POM - Faletau-
Murray-Farrell
Te'o- Davies
? -? - Williams

North and O'Brien will play.Neither have seen one minute yet.

CMOTDibbler · 07-06-2017 05:21PM

nice_guy80 wrote: »

would you let Gatland and co. coach your club's U12 team?

Absolutely.

buck65 · 07-06-2017 05:21PM

Well 3 outhalves that are basically the same player, Biggar could have been left at home I'd have brought Russell. Ringrose for Roberts. Laidlaw offers little, over abundance of Welsh players such as the 2 mentioned and Halfpenny, I'm all for flair , love to see Carberry, Zebo there.

penybont exile · 07-06-2017 05:23PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

This is kind of what happens when a team is dominant in the scrum. Not intentional knock ons, but play that encourages scrummaging. The more kicks there are the more set pieces there will be for example. You don't have to knock the ball on intentionally, just play riskier. So long as you trust your defense the penalties come.

..... remember '77 and NZ resorting to a three man scrum as they were getting stuffed with 8.

smurphy29 · 07-06-2017 05:33PM

The best decision Schmidt ever made was to stay well clear of this tour. Warren Gatland was the luckiest coach in rugby to win the last series against an abomination of an Australia team. The rugby in 2011 was dire and utterly forgettable. The second test was one of the most turgid matches I've ever watched. Any other vintage Australis would have won, but they were in the death throes of the Dingo Deans era and barely showed up. As a result, Gatland retained the gig for another tour, but it will be his undoing.

Gatland is woefully ill-suited to take on the might of the All Blacks. Anyone who thinks his predictable brand of Warrenball will sustain an 80-minute performance against the world's greatest rugby nation is deluded. He is about to be badly exposed.

I feel the Lions concept may die on its feet in New Zealand, and quite frankly I would not give a hoot if it does. It's possible the Lions lose all remaining matches. The Crusaders will now be licking their chops and confidence will slowly ebb from the Lions camp with another defeat. The tour is now a merch-shifting exercise and a jolly-up for wealthy touring fans, but nobody really cares whether the Lions win or lose, bar a few old alickadoos who get to reminisce about what bloody great chaps the boys on the '71 tour were. In fans' minds, the Lions is now a battle to 'win' the selection by achieving the highest representation of the four nations. The matches are a sideshow which will be lost, and badly.

P.Walnuts · 07-06-2017 05:33PM

buck65 wrote: »

Well 3 outhalves that are basically the same player, Biggar could have been left at home I'd have brought Russell. Ringrose for Roberts. Laidlaw offers little, over abundance of Welsh players such as the 2 mentioned and Halfpenny, I'm all for flair , love to see Carberry, Zebo there.

Eh?

Thelomen Toblackai · 07-06-2017 05:34PM

Assuming none of the test starters will play the Chiefs 4 days before the first test there's 3 games in 10 days in which to find the test team and get them comfortable playing together and then a week of training for the first test.

Given how the players currently don't seem to be gelling at all I think that's a tall order. I think the realistic question here is can the Lions avoid a whitewash from here on in, never-mind win a test series.

Braken · 07-06-2017 05:48PM

I think the Lions consept will die as the Ryder Cup did when it was British and Irish against the USA ,they were uncompetitive and had to include the Europeans.
I think rugby will have to go that route to maintain interest...

Eyes Down Field · 07-06-2017 06:14PM

Is this one of the worst Lions teams ever?

aloooof · 07-06-2017 06:15PM

Braken wrote: »

I think the Lions consept will die as the Ryder Cup did when it was British and Irish against the USA ,they were uncompetitive and had to include the Europeans.
I think rugby will have to go that route to maintain interest...

That'd be an interesting debate, but might open another can of worms. Which Fijian French players would get in the B&I team?

clsmooth · 07-06-2017 06:36PM

aloooof wrote: »

That'd be an interesting debate, but might open another can of worms. Which Fijian French players would get in the B&I team?

Picamoles, Parra, Lopez and Fofana would add something for a start. I can imagine it would be love at first sight of Scott Spedding for Gatland.

CatFromHue · 07-06-2017 06:46PM

Eyes Down Field wrote: »

Is this one of the worst Lions teams ever?

It's a bit early to be saying that.

The Blues are probably the strongest opposition a Lions tour has played so early in the tour.

They did get a bit of a flukey try today too.

sting60 · 07-06-2017 06:46PM

Put these posts in context Zebo,Ringrose then we realise how sad the uneducated really are .

Erik Shin · 07-06-2017 06:50PM

clsmooth wrote: »

Picamoles, Parra, Lopez and Fofana would add something for a start. I can imagine it would be love at first sight of Scott Spedding for Gatland.

Just as an aside, are the French based English players considered for Lions selection?

CMOTDibbler · 07-06-2017 06:52PM

Erik Shin wrote: »

Just as an aside, are the French based English players considered for Lions selection?

Nope.

D14Rugby · 07-06-2017 06:57PM

Erik Shin wrote: »

Just as an aside, are the French based English players considered for Lions selection?

Yes. It's done by pure eligibility not based on a unions in house selection rules

pickarooney · 07-06-2017 07:15PM

aloooof wrote: »

That'd be an interesting debate, but might open another can of worms. Which Fijian French players would get in the B&I team?

Guirado. First name on the team sheet. Lopez is the form 10 in Europe and would be a lot better than Biggar, and Sexton on current form. Serin or Dupont would offer something different behind the scrum.

They could have brought Abendanon.

bmwguy · 07-06-2017 07:31PM

Big rugby fan of the Irish provinces, my own club and of Ireland. Played all my life and coaches too. Was in South Africa 09, went to a few matches and was in Australia on holiday in 2013 during the tour but didn't go to a match.

But I am not even next to near a lions supporter. I will watch every single game as I love watching rugby but throw lads from Wales, England and a token Scot in there, it's not my team any more. I can't support 3/4 of a team I don't normally support. Great concept, marvellously marketed but I just want to watch the rugby. Don't care if they win or not (They won't anyway).

I think they will pick up 2 more wins for what it's worth. No idea which matches but they won't lose them all

Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

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