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More than half (54%) of 18-75 year old drinkers are classified as harmful drinkers

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Comments

  • #32
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    One of the reports said that drinkers in ireland drank ~ 500 pints a week. That's a lot. 10 a week.


  • #33
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Shelflife wrote: »
    Alcohol Ireland (should really be called anti alcohol Ireland) are also promoting the minimum pricing of alcohol and structural separation of alcohol in shops.

    The reason behind this is to help those who have drinking problems, creating a blacked out section (shop within a shop) will have no impact whatsoever on a problem drinker. they will happily open that door and walk straight in, upping the price wont make any difference to the problem drinker either, they will simply eat less,run up bills or turn off the heat , but they wont stop drinking less because of the price.

    All that will happen is that the moderate drinkers will now have to pay more for their drink and the cost of selling alcohol will go up for the retailers.

    What we need is proper education in how to drink properly and perhaps better help for those that have alcohol related proplems.

    There seems to be a denial in Ireland though that we have serious acohol abuse problems

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #34
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    One of the reports said that drinkers in ireland drank ~ 500 pints a week. That's a lot. 10 a week.
    What report?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #35
    Persephone kindness
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Persephone kindness


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    One of the reports said that drinkers in ireland drank ~ 500 pints a week. That's a lot. 10 a week.
    10 a week is nothing. 2 bottles of wine a night plus pints every second night with a whiskey chaser is a bit much though.


  • #36
    Persephone kindness
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Persephone kindness


    It's not simply pints. It's not what you drink. It's how much how often. And when.


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  • #37
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    There seems to be a denial in Ireland though that we have serious acohol abuse problems

    The trouble is though that nobody seems to be calling for a middle ground. IE, you can accept that there is an alcoholism issue in our society, AND also accept that it's complete and utter bullsh!t to suggest that having three or four pints over the course of a Bank Holiday sunday with your family constitutes "binge drinking". As soon as you start pedalling extremist garbage, the entire credibility of your cause goes down the drain - and this is the trap that the anti-alcohol lobby have fallen into. Classify very ordinary social behaviour as exceptional, and you lose the ability to call out truly exceptional behaviour.


  • #38
    Shelflife
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,096 ✭✭✭Shelflife


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    There seems to be a denial in Ireland though that we have serious alcohol abuse problems

    Im not denying that there is an alcohol problem in Ireland, im just saying that the alcohol bill wont make a bit of difference to those with a problem. Its just doing something for the sake of doing something.

    Its adding to the cost of those who drink moderately and putting more money into the pockets of the drinks industry.


  • #39
    Persephone kindness
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Persephone kindness


    I think people start drinking too early and there is social pressure to over do it. And not enough to moderate yourself and the way you act. You should not see sick on the streets of Temple bar.

    Also to be moderate when drinking alone or at home. (which is fine once you are ok)

    Everyone seems to be saying once you hurt no one ...drinking until you pass out is ok. It's not it's still alcoholism and they are out of control ...I am talking true alcoholism. Just because you don't bother anyone doesn't mean you are in control.


  • #40
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Persephone kindness wrote: »
    I think people start drinking too early and there is social pressure to over do it. And not enough to moderate yourself and the way you act. You should not see sick on the streets of Temple bar.

    Also to be moderate when drinking alone or at home. (which is fine once you are ok)

    Everyone seems to be saying once you hurt no one ...drinking until you pass out is ok. It's not it's still alcoholism and they are out of control ...I am talking true alcoholism. Just because you don't bother anyone doesn't mean you are in control.

    Being out of control is a personal choice that you should be free to make, though - provided you don't bother anyone. At the end of the day, you own your own body, nobody else does.


  • #41
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,611 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


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  • #42
    Persephone kindness
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Persephone kindness


    Patww79 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    I am sorry I didn't mean to imply this. Please forgive me :)


  • #43
    doolox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,345 ✭✭✭doolox


    What should be done is to licence individual drinkers much like we licence drivers in most countries.

    If you abuse your privilege to drive you can have your licence withdrawn by the government.

    Similarly for problem drinkers , they should be banned from buying and consuming alcohol if found to have caused a problem with their drinking, fighting, assault, violence etc.

    I have seen reports in the press where people have been put on probation with attached conditions of abstaining from drink, attending certain pubs etc.

    I personally knew people who were banned from all the pubs of a certain village because of their behavior while drinking. Such measures will be hard to implement and it is often easier and more profitable for governments to opt for blanket bans on entire populations, restricted opening hours, inflated pricing and obscure rules designed to catch people out and make like miserable for the mainstream moderate drinker.

    Maybe it could be a condition for obtaining a licence to drink that the applicant attend alcohol awareness courses and coping skills courses on how to handle drink and fellow drinkers....how to avoid confrontational situations and be self aware of moods while under the influence. There is at the moment no formal knowledge imparted on citizens about the hazards and pitfalls of drinking and what to do to avoid them.

    Often we only hear one side of the story from the victims of drinking and nothing about the enjoyment that socially moderate drinking does for society.


  • #44
    Persephone kindness
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Persephone kindness


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Being out of control is a personal choice that you should be free to make, though - provided you don't bother anyone. At the end of the day, you own your own body, nobody else does.
    I accept this.

    Now stand aside from that idea for one moment. And just listen to me when I tell you what i mean by being out of control.

    You don't have control any longer to make the choice. The man takes a drink and another drink and another ...then the drink takes a drink. After a few weeks ..the habit takes a drink. There is zero choice in alcoholism. They feel helpless. They feel they cannot stop or see themselves without it.

    I am not talking about non alcoholics. Please understand this.


  • #45
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭begbysback


    Persephone kindness wrote: »
    http://alcoholireland.ie/facts/how-much-do-we-drink/

    Check out the peak of the graph - Celtic Tiger baby, ohh the good times :pac::pac:


    Actually seems to have risen and fallen concurrently with house prices :eek:


  • #46
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Patww79 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    It's similar to how a lot of guys feel when the media / radical SJW types say "*Men* do [insert bad behaviour here], men do this, men do that" without a "some" qualifier. Entirely reasonably, when somebody's demographic is attacked without a specification that the attack only applies to a subset, people have a legitimate reason to feel like they're being harangued for something they aren't involved in.


  • #47
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,611 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • #48
    Persephone kindness
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Persephone kindness


    doolox wrote: »
    What should be done is to licence individual drinkers much like we licence drivers in most countries.

    If you abuse your privilege to drive you can have your licence withdrawn by the government.

    Similarly for problem drinkers , they should be banned from buying and consuming alcohol if found to have caused a problem with their drinking, fighting, assault, violence etc.

    I have seen reports in the press where people have been put on probation with attached conditions of abstaining from drink, attending certain pubs etc.

    I personally knew people who were banned from all the pubs of a certain village because of their behavior while drinking. Such measures will be hard to implement and it is often easier and more profitable for governments to opt for blanket bans on entire populations, restricted opening hours, inflated pricing and obscure rules designed to catch people out and make like miserable for the mainstream moderate drinker.

    Maybe it could be a condition for obtaining a licence to drink that the applicant attend alcohol awareness courses and coping skills courses on how to handle drink and fellow drinkers....how to avoid confrontational situations and be self aware of moods while under the influence. There is at the moment no formal knowledge imparted on citizens about the hazards and pitfalls of drinking and what to do to avoid them.

    Often we only hear one side of the story from the victims of drinking and nothing about the enjoyment that socially moderate drinking does for society.
    Moderate drinking is fine. No one wants to ban anything or even curtail it.


  • #49
    Persephone kindness
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Persephone kindness


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    It's similar to how a lot of guys feel when the media / radical SJW types say "*Men* do [insert bad behaviour here], men do this, men do that" without a "some" qualifier. Entirely reasonably, when somebody's demographic is attacked without a specification that the attack only applies to a subset, people have a legitimate reason to feel like they're being harangued for something they aren't involved in.
    We all do that. It's natural.

    I do it...cuz everyone is talking about us all the time :) In our heads. Human nature ;)

    I know i do it too. :)


  • #50
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭begbysback


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Being out of control is a personal choice that you should be free to make, though - provided you don't bother anyone. At the end of the day, you own your own body, nobody else does.


    Control: the power to influence or direct ones behaviour

    Out of control: lack of power to influence or direct ones behaviour

    ;)


  • #51
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    begbysback wrote: »
    Control: the power to influence or direct ones behaviour

    Out of control: lack of power to influence or direct ones behaviour

    ;)

    Fair enough - getting out of control is a personal choice. ;)

    Point still stands though - if I live alone and my house is soundproofed enough that my neighbours can't be bothered by anything I do, there shouldn't be literally anything I'm not legally allowed to do with myself in that private space. Victimless crime is something I've always had an ideological problem with.


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  • #52
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    There seems to be a denial in Ireland though that we have serious acohol abuse problems

    I've never seen anything of the sort. What I've seen is legislation that gets in the way of helping people who most need it.


  • #53
    Persephone kindness
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Persephone kindness


    I had a long rant about AA ...then I decided to say what I think they need to do instead of complaining what they don't do.

    They need a 24 hr support line. They just need to do it. Purely for alcoholics and their families. They just need it full 24 hrs.

    Currently you ring you can get an answer machine. And it used to be a while before they got back to you. They opening hrs of like 9 to 5.

    The rutland centre is the only place to offer a 24 hr line but it's for all addictions so they are pretty overwhelmed.


  • #54
    Persephone kindness
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭Persephone kindness


    They also need more sponsors. Not many people want to do it. And those who do have like two or more people.


  • #55
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    54%?

    Seems low


  • #56
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,740 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Alchoholism is an awful disease both for the sufferer and their family. It causes so much pain. I like to drink and I like to get tipsy. When I was younger I even enjoyed being very drunk. Losing control for me has never been anything more than falling over before falling asleep. I like to let go. So one person's "out of control" is often different to another's.

    There is a lot of judgement around alchohol. If you don't drink you're seen as a bit odd, if you go in to the pub at 2pm of a Tuesday for a pint or two you are seen as having a problem.


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