More than half (54%) of 18-75 year old drinkers are classified as harmful drinkers

Persephone kindness

http://alcoholireland.ie/facts/how-much-do-we-drink/

Is this something that has touched your life?

theteal

In other news, there will be weather today

Persephone kindness

theteal wrote: »

In other news, there will be weather today

Don't pee on my head and tell me it's raining !

Persephone kindness

So ..what kind of weather ? I am seeing grey rain in the future skies.

clairewithani

I am in that age category. Worried now.:)

Persephone kindness

clairewithani wrote: »

I am in that age category. Worried now.:)

I was too...my because of family history. I don't want to be the same so i never started drinking.

I am sure you're fine though .:)

Wesser

That's a very wide age bracket.

Would you be able to provide some kind of breakdown on the figures or some kind if discussion on the matter e.g. if you think the stats are well compiled and if so what you think the causes Are?

Persephone kindness

Wesser wrote: »

That's a very wide age bracket.

Would you be able to provide some kind of breakdown on the figures or some kind if discussion on the matter e.g. if you think the stats are well compiled and if so what you think the causes Are?

It's acceptability. Basically one half of the country are alcoholics and one half are not. You never know how the other half lives etc.

I don't know if they are well compiled. It has touched my family though.

It just basically people who do consume harmfully never take responsibility for the harm they cause whether it be to loved ones or the general public. For those who have to deal with it it's very painful. It's not a judgement on those who suffer from alcoholism or enjoy a drink. It's just an observation that there is little support in society for what is a very real problem.And lots of overreaction to what is not really an issue in real life or affects very few.

In fact I think a lot of people avoid the issue.

jeanjolie

Persephone kindness wrote: »

It just basically people who do consume harmfully never take responsibility for the harm they cause whether it be to loved ones or the general public. .

Lol..what 'pain'? Are they suffering the abdominal pain that they drinkers suffer from alcoholism? Are they vomiting from alcohol intoxication?

If not then I don't really think it can be classified as pain; And more importantly, why are they concerned? It's their life, let them be.

Persephone kindness

jeanjolie wrote: »

Lol..what 'pain'? Are they suffering the abdominal pain that they drinkers suffer from alcoholism? Are they vomiting from alcohol intoxication?

If not then I don't really think it can be classified as pain; And more importantly, why are they concerned? It's their life, let them be.

No but I am the child of an alcoholic. It's not easy.

clairewithani

jeanjolie wrote: »

Lol..what 'pain'? Are they suffering the abdominal pain that they drinkers suffer from alcoholism? Are they vomiting from alcohol intoxication?

If not then I don't really think it can be classified as pain; And more importantly, why are they concerned? It's their life, let them be.

Close family of alcoholics would not agree with you.

MilesMorales1

I'm in that age category, but never have and never will touched a drop of alcohol. Most people I know seem to be awful for the 'binge' drinking though, drink all week in the evenings, then on friday go out and drink till they're off their faces and can't move under their own speed.

ChikiChiki

Persephone kindness wrote: »

No but I am the child of an alcoholic. It's not easy.

I 110% agree with this. I've learned kids are really affected by seeing their parents drunk. Their is a great book called 'Adult Children of alcoholics' .

Its an eye opener for those who think having more than a few ln front of the kids is fine. Its not! I feel people need to be educated more on this aspect.

Persephone kindness

True .. it can get more extreme than a few too

osarusan

It all depends on how they are 'classified' and what the criteria are for 'harmful drinking' but that link doesn't say.

clairewithani

osarusan wrote: »

It all depends on how they are 'classified' and what the criteria are for 'harmful drinking' but that link doesn't say.

Probably people who drink more than recommended weekly limits.

Persephone kindness

clairewithani wrote: »

Probably people who drink more than recommended weekly limits.

I think it should really be based on behavior. Or give you an idea of by how much over the limit they are. Someone could be just over the limit ..which might distort stats.

osarusan

clairewithani wrote: »

Probably people who drink more than recommended weekly limits.

No, those stats are listed (separately for men and women) and they don't add up to 54%.

Yourself isit

The link is indeed a mess.

meeeeh

Actually it seems alcohol consumption decreased a bit in Ireland. The slight increase could probably be explained by more disposable income, younger people returning back​ to Ireland and less of them leaving than during recession. I'm not saying the numbers are great but they are a lot better than 14l per capita in early 2000s.

Persephone kindness

meeeeh wrote: »

Actually it seems alcohol consumption decreased a bit in Ireland. The slight increase could probably be explained by more disposable income, younger people returning back​ to Ireland and less of them leaving than during recession. I'm not saying the numbers are great but they are a lot better than 14l per capita in early 2000s.

I think it was more a link to start the discussion. Statistics representing the population might not be accurate my bad.

But your stats could be wrong too.

It's more about my personal experience. Or anyone's. And how it DOES affect society. And certainly when i was growing up there was really no where to turn to ask for help if you had the issue at home. And certainly we were told DRUGS ARE BAD UMKAY. But really people don't educate people about how alcohol abuse is. The reality is ..for many it might not be an issue they handle alcohol responsibly. But we are not talking about those people.

wakka12

So everyone who's not a baby or dead

Persephone kindness

There is a sense of being emotionally bludgeoned by living with an alcoholic. Or anxious waiting.

Persephone kindness

wakka12 wrote: »

So everyone who's not a baby or dead

True it does seem to be catch all statistics. It's probably not accurate.

Shelflife

The site that is linked is basically an anti alcohol site that conveniently fails to mention that binge drinking is when you have the equivalent of 3 pints at one sitting.

Based on those "facts" most people would be binge drinkers.

Need to be careful of stats from sites that arent independent or have an agenda.

TerrorFirmer

Persephone kindness wrote: »

It's acceptability. Basically one half of the country are alcoholics and one half are not. You never know how the other half lives etc.

As a nation along with the UK we have terrible drinking patterns but it doesn't mean that literally half the country are alcoholics.

Harmful drinking patterns and alcoholism are completely different things.

Most people (note - not all) who drink in Ireland are 'harmful drinkers', particularly in the younger age brackets, given how they consume alcohol but would not even realise it.

If you go out on the lash once a week and have 8 pints, but spent every other day hitting the gym, eating right, and drink doesn't even cross your mind..... that once a week session is still classed as harmful drinking.

It's like the definition of binge drinking. You could have a few quiet pints and technically fit into the definition of binge drinking but it's not the association most people would have with the term.

Persephone kindness

As a nation along with the UK we have terrible drinking patterns but it doesn't mean that literally half the country are alcoholics.

I can accept this. :)I am always tentative to talk about it. Particularly in Ireland.

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

As a nation along with the UK we have terrible drinking patterns but it doesn't mean that literally half the country are alcoholics.

Harmful drinking patterns and alcoholism are completely different things.

Most people (note - not all) who drink in Ireland are 'harmful drinkers', particularly in the younger age brackets, given how they consume alcohol but would not even realise it.

If you go out on the lash once a week and have 8 pints, but spent every other day hitting the gym, eating right, and drink doesn't even cross your mind..... that once a week session is still classed as harmful drinking.

It's like the definition of binge drinking. You could have a few quiet pints and technically fit into the definition of binge drinking but it's not the association most people would have with the term.

I think families dealing with a parent should be given more support. Particularly children in schools.

People my age want to have a lash I understand that it's natural even.

OldMrBrennan83

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Persephone kindness

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

True. I don't wish to do this. People should be held responsible for their own behaviors .

I don't wish to demonize. Just talk openly really

Shelflife

Alcohol Ireland (should really be called anti alcohol Ireland) are also promoting the minimum pricing of alcohol and structural separation of alcohol in shops.

The reason behind this is to help those who have drinking problems, creating a blacked out section (shop within a shop) will have no impact whatsoever on a problem drinker. they will happily open that door and walk straight in, upping the price wont make any difference to the problem drinker either, they will simply eat less,run up bills or turn off the heat , but they wont stop drinking less because of the price.

All that will happen is that the moderate drinkers will now have to pay more for their drink and the cost of selling alcohol will go up for the retailers.

What we need is proper education in how to drink properly and perhaps better help for those that have alcohol related proplems.

Persephone kindness

Shelflife wrote: »

What we need is proper education in how to drink properly and perhaps better help for those that have alcohol related proplems.

I actually think they need more research into alcoholism. I think support for families. You can't make people change.

Yourself isit

One of the reports said that drinkers in ireland drank ~ 500 pints a week. That's a lot. 10 a week.

Annasopra

Shelflife wrote: »

Alcohol Ireland (should really be called anti alcohol Ireland) are also promoting the minimum pricing of alcohol and structural separation of alcohol in shops.

The reason behind this is to help those who have drinking problems, creating a blacked out section (shop within a shop) will have no impact whatsoever on a problem drinker. they will happily open that door and walk straight in, upping the price wont make any difference to the problem drinker either, they will simply eat less,run up bills or turn off the heat , but they wont stop drinking less because of the price.

All that will happen is that the moderate drinkers will now have to pay more for their drink and the cost of selling alcohol will go up for the retailers.

What we need is proper education in how to drink properly and perhaps better help for those that have alcohol related proplems.

There seems to be a denial in Ireland though that we have serious acohol abuse problems

Annasopra

Yourself isit wrote: »

One of the reports said that drinkers in ireland drank ~ 500 pints a week. That's a lot. 10 a week.

What report?

Persephone kindness

Yourself isit wrote: »

One of the reports said that drinkers in ireland drank ~ 500 pints a week. That's a lot. 10 a week.

10 a week is nothing. 2 bottles of wine a night plus pints every second night with a whiskey chaser is a bit much though.

Persephone kindness

It's not simply pints. It's not what you drink. It's how much how often. And when.

hatrickpatrick

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

There seems to be a denial in Ireland though that we have serious acohol abuse problems

The trouble is though that nobody seems to be calling for a middle ground. IE, you can accept that there is an alcoholism issue in our society, AND also accept that it's complete and utter bullsh!t to suggest that having three or four pints over the course of a Bank Holiday sunday with your family constitutes "binge drinking". As soon as you start pedalling extremist garbage, the entire credibility of your cause goes down the drain - and this is the trap that the anti-alcohol lobby have fallen into. Classify very ordinary social behaviour as exceptional, and you lose the ability to call out truly exceptional behaviour.

Shelflife

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

There seems to be a denial in Ireland though that we have serious alcohol abuse problems

Im not denying that there is an alcohol problem in Ireland, im just saying that the alcohol bill wont make a bit of difference to those with a problem. Its just doing something for the sake of doing something.

Its adding to the cost of those who drink moderately and putting more money into the pockets of the drinks industry.

Persephone kindness

I think people start drinking too early and there is social pressure to over do it. And not enough to moderate yourself and the way you act. You should not see sick on the streets of Temple bar.

Also to be moderate when drinking alone or at home. (which is fine once you are ok)

Everyone seems to be saying once you hurt no one ...drinking until you pass out is ok. It's not it's still alcoholism and they are out of control ...I am talking true alcoholism. Just because you don't bother anyone doesn't mean you are in control.

hatrickpatrick

Persephone kindness wrote: »

I think people start drinking too early and there is social pressure to over do it. And not enough to moderate yourself and the way you act. You should not see sick on the streets of Temple bar.

Also to be moderate when drinking alone or at home. (which is fine once you are ok)

Everyone seems to be saying once you hurt no one ...drinking until you pass out is ok. It's not it's still alcoholism and they are out of control ...I am talking true alcoholism. Just because you don't bother anyone doesn't mean you are in control.

Being out of control is a personal choice that you should be free to make, though - provided you don't bother anyone. At the end of the day, you own your own body, nobody else does.

OldMrBrennan83

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Persephone kindness

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I am sorry I didn't mean to imply this. Please forgive me

doolox

What should be done is to licence individual drinkers much like we licence drivers in most countries.

If you abuse your privilege to drive you can have your licence withdrawn by the government.

Similarly for problem drinkers , they should be banned from buying and consuming alcohol if found to have caused a problem with their drinking, fighting, assault, violence etc.

I have seen reports in the press where people have been put on probation with attached conditions of abstaining from drink, attending certain pubs etc.

I personally knew people who were banned from all the pubs of a certain village because of their behavior while drinking. Such measures will be hard to implement and it is often easier and more profitable for governments to opt for blanket bans on entire populations, restricted opening hours, inflated pricing and obscure rules designed to catch people out and make like miserable for the mainstream moderate drinker.

Maybe it could be a condition for obtaining a licence to drink that the applicant attend alcohol awareness courses and coping skills courses on how to handle drink and fellow drinkers....how to avoid confrontational situations and be self aware of moods while under the influence. There is at the moment no formal knowledge imparted on citizens about the hazards and pitfalls of drinking and what to do to avoid them.

Often we only hear one side of the story from the victims of drinking and nothing about the enjoyment that socially moderate drinking does for society.

Persephone kindness

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Being out of control is a personal choice that you should be free to make, though - provided you don't bother anyone. At the end of the day, you own your own body, nobody else does.

I accept this.

Now stand aside from that idea for one moment. And just listen to me when I tell you what i mean by being out of control.

You don't have control any longer to make the choice. The man takes a drink and another drink and another ...then the drink takes a drink. After a few weeks ..the habit takes a drink. There is zero choice in alcoholism. They feel helpless. They feel they cannot stop or see themselves without it.

I am not talking about non alcoholics. Please understand this.

begbysback

Persephone kindness wrote: »

http://alcoholireland.ie/facts/how-much-do-we-drink/

Check out the peak of the graph - Celtic Tiger baby, ohh the good times :pac::pac:


Actually seems to have risen and fallen concurrently with house prices :eek:

hatrickpatrick

Patww79 wrote: »

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It's similar to how a lot of guys feel when the media / radical SJW types say "*Men* do [insert bad behaviour here], men do this, men do that" without a "some" qualifier. Entirely reasonably, when somebody's demographic is attacked without a specification that the attack only applies to a subset, people have a legitimate reason to feel like they're being harangued for something they aren't involved in.

OldMrBrennan83

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Persephone kindness

doolox wrote: »

What should be done is to licence individual drinkers much like we licence drivers in most countries.

If you abuse your privilege to drive you can have your licence withdrawn by the government.

Similarly for problem drinkers , they should be banned from buying and consuming alcohol if found to have caused a problem with their drinking, fighting, assault, violence etc.

I have seen reports in the press where people have been put on probation with attached conditions of abstaining from drink, attending certain pubs etc.

I personally knew people who were banned from all the pubs of a certain village because of their behavior while drinking. Such measures will be hard to implement and it is often easier and more profitable for governments to opt for blanket bans on entire populations, restricted opening hours, inflated pricing and obscure rules designed to catch people out and make like miserable for the mainstream moderate drinker.

Maybe it could be a condition for obtaining a licence to drink that the applicant attend alcohol awareness courses and coping skills courses on how to handle drink and fellow drinkers....how to avoid confrontational situations and be self aware of moods while under the influence. There is at the moment no formal knowledge imparted on citizens about the hazards and pitfalls of drinking and what to do to avoid them.

Often we only hear one side of the story from the victims of drinking and nothing about the enjoyment that socially moderate drinking does for society.

Moderate drinking is fine. No one wants to ban anything or even curtail it.

Persephone kindness

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

It's similar to how a lot of guys feel when the media / radical SJW types say "*Men* do [insert bad behaviour here], men do this, men do that" without a "some" qualifier. Entirely reasonably, when somebody's demographic is attacked without a specification that the attack only applies to a subset, people have a legitimate reason to feel like they're being harangued for something they aren't involved in.

We all do that. It's natural.

I do it...cuz everyone is talking about us all the time In our heads. Human nature

I know i do it too.

begbysback

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Being out of control is a personal choice that you should be free to make, though - provided you don't bother anyone. At the end of the day, you own your own body, nobody else does.

Control: the power to influence or direct ones behaviour

Out of control: lack of power to influence or direct ones behaviour

hatrickpatrick

begbysback wrote: »

Control: the power to influence or direct ones behaviour

Out of control: lack of power to influence or direct ones behaviour

Fair enough - getting out of control is a personal choice.

Point still stands though - if I live alone and my house is soundproofed enough that my neighbours can't be bothered by anything I do, there shouldn't be literally anything I'm not legally allowed to do with myself in that private space. Victimless crime is something I've always had an ideological problem with.