London terror attack confirmed by Met Police

Pretending they are mad or evil is just a way of trying to rationalize it from out cultural perspective.

This post has been deleted.

This was posted on a Manchester United forum about Tommy Robinson. Absolutely brilliant imo

This how I feel
He's evil and totally deranged. Massive ego too.
****ing give over.

This sort of thing is exactly why I feel compelled to defend the bloke, even though I don't agree with a lot of what he does.

He's not "evil" in any sense of the ****ing word. What does he do that's evil? Evil people blow kids up at concerts, or ****ing drive cars into a load of innocent people on a bridge. That's what evil looks like. People like you often conflate real, true evil for a pathetic, limp-wristed definition drawn up by Guardian readers and bloggers.

What you mean to say is he has views and opinions that don't match your own, and you are so convinced that your view of the world is the correct one that there must clearly be something wrong with anyone who disagrees.

The ****ing irony of that. We have a word for that kind of thinking, "totalitarian".

I used to consider myself to be pretty left wing in general, and have gotten into plenty of rows with people on here about being racist. But the last few years of so-called "liberals" getting their moment in the spotlight has made me realise that I was a long ****ing way off their definition of the "left". This is what people like you don't realise - just because you feel like you have the moral high ground, doesn't mean you're right, and you are alienating people - such as myself - that may have once had sympathies for a more liberal standpoint.

The simple fact in it all is that the people who have been voicing their concerns about extremist Islam for years - whether they be the EDL, BNP or just someone who is otherwise a totally rational and sane, considerate person who can look at the evidence and spot a problem - can now go "we ****ing told you so". For that reason, we need to start listening to these people - even the far right groups. We don't have to agree with them, but we need to hear what they're ****ing saying before we make our minds up.

The constant attempts by supposed "progressive" people to silence anyone who dares question the more ****ed up parts of an institution like Islam are what has led us to this point. Yes, I know that the underlying problem is with our governments, and our foreign policy and so on, but the opportunity to stop a lot of this **** from happening has been right there for at least the last 16 years, and we were ****ing afraid to look at it, talk about it or address it because stupid ****ing liberal ***** have created an atmosphere in which to criticise Islam and the people who practise it - even when it's responsible for hundreds of deaths in this country, and thousands more world wide, even when it's responsible for kids being blown up or raped in our towns and cities, even after all of that - it makes you a "racist" or an "Islamophobe".

You are complicit in the problem. You are holding people back from talking about it openly and frankly, and therefore from finding a solution to it. Because you think people like Tommy Robinson are "evil" and "deranged", but you'll make up a thousand excuses as to why Islam shouldn't even have the finger pointed at it. Meanwhile, **** all changes

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Can't be...the only Muslim immigrants to Ireland are highly educated doctors and there are zero extremists amongst them. Fact

No doubt they go to mass every Sunday.

Here is a FACT. Muhammad is the fastest-growing baby name in Ireland.

How multicultural of us.

Crann na Beatha wrote: »

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This comment in the article said it all for me.

Marginalisation and Perceived Injustice


Many would-be violent extremists bear grievances, sometimes a sense of humiliation (either personally or on behalf of their in-group)

Especially the humiliation part, not so much the grievances. It is just the simple sane rationalization than ppl in their community don't agree with you and in some cases go ballistic as a result. And this is more likely to happen when a Muslim lives in a western country where they see women go uncovered, gay bars and the very existence of bars in the first place.

But none of this for me forgives the fundamentalist for not accepting the individual right of any person to live their own life they way they want to.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/london-bridge-terror-attack-terrorists--10562140


Not just known to authorities, known to Channel 4 and had no problems hiding his loyalty to ISIS




The British people are being shafted by politicians and the media

Richard Hillman wrote: »

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/london-bridge-terror-attack-terrorists--10562140


Not just known to authorities, known to Channel 4 and had no problems hiding his loyalty to ISIS




The British people are being shafted by politicians and the media

I watched that documentary on Saturday morning before the attack. It was a real eye opener on how many of them there are just freely going around the London streets openly supporting/recruiting for isis.

Its on Netflix called "Jihadis Next Door"

buckwheat wrote: »

This was posted on a Manchester United forum about Tommy Robinson. Absolutely brilliant imo

This how I feel
He's evil and totally deranged. Massive ego too.
****ing give over.

This sort of thing is exactly why I feel compelled to defend the bloke, even though I don't agree with a lot of what he does.

....

One issue with this (and posts like that one up there that way too gleefully blames the deaths on "liberals") is that it is shockingly simplistic.

I could just as easily write a sweeping post accusing the right of being somehow to blame for encouraging hate, nativism and also warmongering, backing it up by the wars launched on the region from the US, which -tend- to be predominantly Republican-backed. Such is the tradition of the hawkish Reps and dovish Dems anyway.

It would also be simplistic and incorrect. Mostly because it forces a polarisation of opinion that likely the vast majority of people just don't fall into.

I am overall a liberal. An atheist liberal at that. I don't particularly approve of religions and that most certainly includes Islam. I'm quite happy to talk about issues in Islam and where they conflict with Western mores. I don't really like seeing it mixed too much into hot-tempered discussions about terrorism because the two issues are separate and the latter type of discussion tends to more sweeping and less nuanced debate regarding Islam itself as the debaters blood is (are?) up.

But as a liberal, in the eyes of certain on the moderate-right to far-right, I am morally culpable of Islamic extremism because I must always absolutely defend Islam. Which is patently not true for me and it's patently not true for many others in a similar position on the spectrum,

It's the internet. Mostly we only see the extreme positions and those extreme positions force others into taking more extreme positions in opposition because on the internet, there is a strange culture of if you give at all to the other person's opinion where it is extreme in places, you are seen as legitimising the whole thing. The -general- approach is to pick out the parts one most disagrees with, thus making those the most talked-about topics - with the most extreme views attached.

Therefore, there is no centrist, there is only extreme or moderate-extreme opinions that we mostly get from the other side. Again, I'm also being simplistic here, but not quite as simplistic as the "IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT, LEFT/RIGHT WING!"

There are a lot of different reasons as to why we're in the position we're in, and some of them started before most of us were born. There's issues ranging across the Middle East that started in the aftermath of WW2 and some of -those- have roots even further back. There is also the invasions and bombings. There is also a factioning religion causing sectarian violence (again). There are the corrupt governments and kleptocracies that partly inspired Arab Spring. There is also the approaches to the refugee crises and there is also the far-left notions of unrestricted migration (which I've actually almost never seen advocated, only accused, but then, I notice that people in general, myself included, don't tend to spot the extreme views on their own "side" as much as they do those on the other side), and the far-right notions of deport/kill/intern them all which understandably scares the hell out of a lot of people. Both extreme positions play into ISIS' hands.

Nobody that is not on an extreme point on the spectrum supports either unrestricted immigration OR genocide. Most of us are on a sliding scale.

In short, it is absolutely daft to be wasting time and energy blaming each other for Islamic extremism. I am some random spod on the internet, same as the rest of you. I don't think any of us are making policy regarding the Middle East and if any of us are, get off the bloody internet and do something useful! :P

neverever1 wrote: »

I don't know but continually bombing people from these countries is not going to help!

Should they and the US stop bombing ISIS in Syria?

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Is it just a rumour about one of them living in Ireland?

My own question answered
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/0605/880356-garda-meeting-london-attack/