London terror attack confirmed by Met Police

Danzy · 04-06-2017 07:22PM

Syphonax wrote: »

How easy it is for us to say 'Islamic Militancy' when 'Islamic Militancy' is gurellia warfare for ones freedom from oppressive foreign powers invading your country.

80 years isnt near as long as two thousands years of warfare.

I have no problem with someone picking up a gun to fight invasion.

You won't find me condemning Iraqis in Basra etc.

Islamic Militancy was old long before France or England existed though.

namloc1980 · 04-06-2017 07:24PM

Syphonax wrote: »

How easy it is for us to say 'Islamic Militancy' when 'Islamic Militancy' is gurellia warfare for ones freedom from oppressive foreign powers invading your country.

80 years isnt near as long as two thousands years of warfare.

You think Islam has only been militant for the last 80 years? You better read up on history. Islamic armies conquered much of the middle East and North Africa soon after the time of Mohammed. From the 8th to the 15th century Islamists conquered and occupied much of Spain, finally being defeated by the 1500s. Not to mention aggressive wars by the Ottoman empire. Islam has a long history of warfare. Even Mohammed's spreading of his religion was done through the sword.

EazyD · 04-06-2017 07:35PM

Danzy wrote: »

The increase in Islamic Militancy over the last 80 years has been largely down to a pushback against secular and western influences, women's clothes, relaxed morality etc.

The 2 great evangelical wings of Islam from the last 80 years, Deobandism and the Muslim Brotherhood both started by people as a response to increased secular values and in the case of the MB, in response to his shock at how women dressed in America.

Israel did not help but it isn't the cause that people pretend it to be.

My parents bought their first house in Clonskeagh many years ago, shortly after I was born. My mother only recently told me that she would often take me out in the pram on her days off, particularly when there was some good weather.

On a number of occasions whilst out, she would be given almighty stares (disapproving would be an understatement) from the local mosque goers for wearing what we would considered normal women's summer clothing.

Intolerance and/or hatred of our values and ways of life is not just a figment of our imagination, it has always been there and presumably always will be.

Danzy · 04-06-2017 07:36PM

The first generation of Islam conquered from bits of India all the way over to parts of the South of France in 50 years.

If that wasn't a testimony to the faith zeal and militancy, then what is?

It changed the world, rattled Christendom to its foundation, as Christian lands like Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia all fell in to Islam.

Taking the centre of Christianity from being a Mediterranean faith to being centred on Western Europe.

A shock that lasted for centuries and that left a fear in Europe of being wiped out by the Militant faith to to South and East.

Bushmanpm · 04-06-2017 07:38PM

wonderfullife wrote:

So our long history of violent struggle against oppression is part of our culture you want Muslims to adhere to?

Why have you changed my "...defiant struggle" to "...VIOLENT struggle" ?
To fit your agenda/narrative?

wonderfullife wrote:

We don't go abroad and integrate. We go abroad and spread Irish culture.

From what I've seen of the Irish, they do BOTH! Yes they maintain some of their culture but also immerse themselves into the culture of the country they are in.

Syphonax · 04-06-2017 07:40PM

Danzy wrote: »

I have no problem with someone picking up a gun to fight invasion.

You won't find me condemning Iraqis in Basra etc.

Islamic Militancy was old long before France or England existed though.

'Islamic Militancy' is a term thats not fit for purpose so, you should stop using it. Most English people would know of the 'Roman' effect so thats possibly a good starting point for your 'Islamic Militancy' maybe but I still dont like the term. These are people same as you or I but their lives dont count for the same as us in the 'West' but us westerners maybe are seeing what go through daily now and are becoming more understanding of what they go through daily, in their lives?

Syphonax · 04-06-2017 07:44PM

namloc1980 wrote: »

You think Islam has only been militant for the last 80 years? You better read up on history. Islamic armies conquered much of the middle East and North Africa soon after the time of Mohammed. From the 8th to the 15th century Islamists conquered and occupied much of Spain, finally being defeated by the 1500s. Not to mention aggressive wars by the Ottoman empire. Islam has a long history of warfare. Even Mohammed's spreading of his religion was done through the sword.

Thanks for history lesson. Name me ONE people or empire that hasnt done the same and ill by u a cola.

At least you can see the reoccurring pattern here, yes?

Im not going to be a smartarse and ask you for the solition to war but at least try and be more sympathic to the blights people on all sides are going through.

...such needless death.

conorhal · 04-06-2017 07:44PM

EazyD wrote: »

My parents bought their first house in Clonskeagh many years ago, shortly after I was born. My mother only recently told me that she would often take me out in the pram on her days off, particularly when there was some good weather.

On a number of occasions whilst out, she would be given almighty stares (dissaproving would be an understatement) from the local mosque goers for wearing what we would considered normal women's summer clothing.

Intolerance and/or hatred of our values and ways of life is not just a figment of our imagination, it has always been there and presumably always will be.

And then the 'white flight' begins, then the ghettoised communities form, and in these communities separated from the wider society a radicalized insular community forms and then you get the problems that France and the UK face.
Of course we know all this and yet refuse to address the problem.

Yourself isit · 04-06-2017 07:46PM

Syphonax wrote: »

'Islamic Militancy' is a term thats not fit for purpose so, you should stop using it. Most English people would know of the 'Roman' effect so thats possibly a good starting point for your 'Islamic Militancy' maybe but I still dont like the term. These are people same as you or I but their lives dont count for the same as us in the 'West' but us westerners maybe are seeing what go through daily now and are becoming more understanding of what they go through daily, in their lives?

Another post that hasn't a clue about whats happening in the middle East.

conorhal · 04-06-2017 07:48PM

Syphonax wrote: »

Thanks for history lesson. Name me ONE people or empire that hasnt done the same and ill by u a cola.

At least you can see the reoccurring pattern here, yes?

Im not going to be a smartarse and ask you for the solition to war but at least try and be more sympathic to the blights people on all sides are going through.

...such needless death.

Here's a hand informative history of the number of times Islam has attempted to conquer Europe since it's inception by a warlord that mandated it be spread at the point of a sword.
For fourteen hundered years it has had European ambitions.

Never, I imagine, in it's imperialist ambitions did it ever conceive that it would be invited to to complete it's task.

Syphonax · 04-06-2017 07:48PM

Yourself isit wrote: »

Another post that hasn't a clue about whats happening in the middle East.

Another not very challenging post...im clueless though...

Danzy · 04-06-2017 07:49PM

Syphonax wrote: »

'Islamic Militancy' is a term thats not fit for purpose so, you should stop using it. Most English people would know of the 'Roman' effect so thats possibly a good starting point for your 'Islamic Militancy' maybe but I still dont like the term. These are people same as you or I but their lives dont count for the same as us in the 'West' but us westerners maybe are seeing what go through daily now and are becoming more understanding of what they go through daily, in their lives?

It is a Militant, Imperialist faith.

You might not think their lives count for as much but that is your own choice.

Islam is imperialist and militant that no other significant religion of the last 1500 years has been.

Syphonax · 04-06-2017 07:50PM

conorhal wrote: »

Here's a hand informative history of the number of times Islam has attempted to conquer Europe since it's inception by a warlord that mandated it be spread at the point of a sword.
For a thousand years it has had European ambitions.

Never, I imagine, in it's imperialist ambitions did it ever conceive that it would be invited to to complete it's task.

I could do u one for Rome Mongols Britain America Russia France Germany yadadada but you would still win?!

Widdershins · 04-06-2017 07:51PM

Murrisk wrote: »

Well, as you ably demonstrate here, it can happen absoutely anywhere so one needs to just get on with their life, as there is a miniscule chance of being caught up in a terrorist attack. I suppose one can consider where the next one might be but nobody can really predict that so what are we to do, stay indoors?

Of course people can't become shut ins but I was responding to someone who was responding to someone who was rescheduling their trip to London. It's up to the individual to decide what a sensible precaution is.

On a different note, this is worth reading for information on the religious core of Islamic jihadist groups like ISIS (and it might be helpful for anyone who is confusing it with a situation where terrorists have demands and they would stop the violence if the demands were met but the the government is refusing to bow down to terrorists. That's not what ISIS are about.) :https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

conorhal · 04-06-2017 07:56PM

Syphonax wrote: »

I could do u one for Rome Mongols Britain America Russia France Germany yadadada but you would still win?!

Would I invite them in is the real question? Would I be posting #notallnazis?

Syphonax · 04-06-2017 07:58PM

Danzy wrote: »

It is a Militant, Imperialist faith.

You might not think their lives count for as much but that is your own choice.

Islam is imperialist and militant that no other significant religion of the last 1500 years has been.

So all people who are religious are bad? cmon thats just what they want you to say

Danzy · 04-06-2017 08:02PM

Syphonax wrote: »

So all people who are religious are bad? cmon thats just what they want you to say

No, not at all, no more than all Muslims are bad.

Their religion though is rotten to the core and it has damaged and destroyed all societies that it has infected.

The Islamic World has only advanced in terms of civilization and benefit to themselves when Islam retreats.

conorhal · 04-06-2017 08:03PM

Syphonax wrote: »

So all people who are religious are bad? cmon thats just what they want you to say

That's what you're saying. Islam spread at the point of a sword. It's right there in the Koran, you should try giving it a read.

Phoebas · 04-06-2017 08:03PM

EazyD wrote: »

My parents bought their first house in Clonskeagh many years ago, shortly after I was born. My mother only recently told me that she would often take me out in the pram on her days off, particularly when there was some good weather.

On a number of occasions whilst out, she would be given almighty stares (disapproving would be an understatement) from the local mosque goers for wearing what we would considered normal women's summer clothing.

Intolerance and/or hatred of our values and ways of life is not just a figment of our imagination, it has always been there and presumably always will be.

She got stared at and managed to read that as 'hatred of our values and ways of life'.
That's quite the leap.

Richard Hillman · 04-06-2017 08:05PM

Phoebas wrote: »

She got stared at and managed to read that as 'hatred of our values and ways of life'.
That's quite the leap.

Just say a gay couple walked down Grafton Street and were met with stares of aghastment, would you belittle it?

Phoebas · 04-06-2017 08:07PM

conorhal wrote: »

And then the 'white flight' begins, then the ghettoised communities form, and in these communities separated from the wider society a radicalized insular community forms and then you get the problems that France and the UK face.
Of course we know all this and yet refuse to address the problem.

The mosque has been there for 20 years now. Has there been 'white flight' from Clonskeagh?

martingriff · 04-06-2017 08:08PM

sorry wrong thread

Danzy · 04-06-2017 08:09PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Just say a gay couple walked down Grafton Street and were met with stares of aghastment, would you belittle it?

Going by the indifference that many have shown to preachers and Imams calling for the murder of gays, then there would be belittling of it.

Having a problem with people calling for homos being thrown off roofs can actually lead to one being called a bigot these days.

Phoebas · 04-06-2017 08:10PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Just say a gay couple walked down Grafton Street and were met with stares of aghastment, would you belittle it?

Only if in a massive leap of the imagination it was interpreted as 'hatred of their values and ways of life'.

super_furry · 04-06-2017 08:14PM

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-security-iran-idUKKBN18V0NX

"Iran said on Sunday the London attacks were a "wake-up call" and urged Western states to go after ideological and financial sources of terrorism, state media reported, in a thinly veiled reference to Saudi Arabia."

It takes ****ing Iran to call out the truth. Meanwhile Theresa May is so desperate to continue selling guns, jets and bombs to Saudia Arabia that she wants to blame the internet for what's going on.

Danzy · 04-06-2017 08:16PM

The best way I've seen to describe what is going on in England and France is that it is not just terrorism, it is now a low level insurgency.

conorhal · 04-06-2017 08:19PM

Phoebas wrote: »

The mosque has been there for 20 years now. Has there been 'white flight' from Clonskeagh?

I don't know, honest answer. These things happen and not to a timetable, I'm just pointing out that it happens over a course and there is no reason to assume that such a pattern won't be replicated here. Right now the numbers are small so I doubt it has happened yet, but precedence suggests it might.

Sure the Mosque in Clonskeah has been there for 20 years and 20 years ago the Muslim population in the whole of Ireland was 5,000.

Demography and ethnic background. According to the 2011 Irish census, there were 49,204 Muslims living in the Republic of Ireland, representing a 51% increase over the figures for the 2006 census. At the time of the 2016 Irish census the number of Muslims had increased from 49,000 to 63,000, an increase of 29%.

Like most migrants, they tend to concentrate in certian areas and seek out their own communities. What's required for ghettoization to happen is critical mass. Are you suggesting that won't happen?

Sound of Silence · 04-06-2017 08:23PM

I'm often surprised by the amount of patience the Left has had for Islam, a Religion which shares almost none of their values. It's something of a strange moral and ethical blind-spot that I find difficult to understand.

Here, in Ireland, we've experienced what it was like to live in Nation subservient to Religious dogma. We understand how it compromises our freedom of choice and expression, our morals and our ethics. Yet here we are, in spite of what has happened in the Middle-East, North Africa, and on the streets of Europe, we are still so reluctant to address the root of the problem:

Islam desperately needs to be humbled by secularism to the degree that Christianity has been in the West in the past Century.

Richard Hillman · 04-06-2017 08:24PM

conorhal wrote: »

Here's a hand informative history of the number of times Islam has attempted to conquer Europe since it's inception by a warlord that mandated it be spread at the point of a sword.
For fourteen hundered years it has had European ambitions.

Never, I imagine, in it's imperialist ambitions did it ever conceive that it would be invited to to complete it's task.

The reason why they could never take Europe was our strong leadership. Ruthless leadership from the Romans, the Catholic Church, Napoleon, the Austro-Hungarians, Fascism/Communism etc, they didn't have a chance.

Now for the first time in Europe's organised history we have modernised and weak leadership but these guys we are facing still have the same mindset of medieval battle.

They say the pen is mightier than the sword. But you don't bring a pen to a swordfight. This is a sword fight and it needs medieval tactics to win.

Phoebas · 04-06-2017 08:27PM

conorhal wrote: »

Like most migrants, they tend to concentrate in certian areas and seek out their own communities. What's required for ghettoization to happen is critical mass. Are you suggesting that won't happen?

It might in the future, but I haven't seen evidence of it so far, despite the mosque being there for 20 years.

You described how 'white flight' begins. But it hasn't begun.

London terror attack confirmed by Met Police

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