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London terror attack confirmed by Met Police

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Comments

  • #1022
    Snake Plisken
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,053 ✭✭✭✭Snake Plisken


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Do you think their families and friends should be arrested and jailed?

    Well if you look at the Manchester bomber they obviously knew what was going on and fled to Libya and the father and Brother were arrested on terrorist charges so yes I believe they should be arrested and jailed!


  • #1023
    theoneeyedman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,219 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    I wonder if the increase in arrests this week pushed this terror cell into acting. I don't see the sense in announcing arrests on terror matters. They knew the net was closing and they had to go before they were caught.

    If you were in cell of 4 people and you see that the other 3 have been arrested, guess what?

    These guys could have been in a 4 man cell, 1 was arrested, they knew he would flip and had to go.
    Politics and spin.
    Teresa Grey and Amber Rudd & Co milking the Manchester attack and 'we're tough on terrorism' with an election ongoing is main reason,plus a media milking the misery porn element to the last, around the Manchester attack.
    IMHO, a lot of these reports are BS, truth falls victim very quickly in these circumstances.


  • #1024
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    I am neither afraid or admitting defeat.

    By repeatedly shouting down those of us making suggestions on how deal with the issue and writing them off as stupid or impossible you and others are doing exactly that.

    The softly softly approach is not working. Why can't you and others accept that.


  • #1025
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    I don't know which ones, I'm not an expert on world governments.

    If you're not willing to get rid of the maniacs though can you at least agree they should be taken off the streets?

    I agree but you have to identify someone as a maniac and convict them of a crime before taking them off the street. I'm okay with tightening laws to do that but a lot of these terrorists are not high on the police radar before they strike because they aren't committing anything that could be classed as a crime before that strike.


  • #1026
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    That's why people are on the watchlist though, they have been investigated and fo7nd not to have broken any laws. Some are saying jail and deport anyone on the watchlist regardless if wether they have broken a law

    So tell me your suggestions then. What would you do with people on watchlists?


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  • #1027
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,896 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    So we sit back and do nothing and just continue watching and waiting for them to strike again?

    I'd wish you would stop accusing people that don't agree with your irrational methods of dealing with the situation of being in favour of 'doing nothing'. Thanks.


  • #1028
    Romantic Rose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭Romantic Rose


    Snake Plisken wrote: »
    Well if you look at the Manchester bomber they obviously knew what was going on and fled to Libya and the father and Brother were arrested on terrorist charges so yes I believe they should be arrested and jailed!

    They were complete and utter scumbags. Guilty by association. I'm sure if someone was building a shrapnel bomb under your roof, you would be completely oblivious. Yeah right.


  • #1029
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Romantic Rose wrote: »
    Sitting on the fence won't get us anywhere. We need action.

    I agree. Action that is both controlled and measured. Not dumping people at sea as has been suggested


  • #1030
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,434 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Romantic Rose wrote: »
    Sitting on the fence won't get us anywhere. We need action.

    We need a snake pliskin , send him in to root out the evil


  • #1031
    tigger123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,603 ✭✭✭tigger123


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    By repeatedly shouting down those of us making suggestions on how deal with the issue and writing them off as stupid or impossible you and others are doing exactly that.

    The softly softly approach is not working. Why can't you and others accept that.

    What's your suggestion then? Internment?


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  • #1032
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,872 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Snake Plisken wrote: »
    Well if you look at the Manchester bomber they obviously knew what was going on and fled to Libya and the father and Brother were arrested on terrorist charges so yes I believe they should be arrested and jailed!

    And that includes families/friends of the 2 Irish lads caught with semtex the other day?


  • #1033
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    I agree but you have to identify someone as a maniac and convict them of a crime before taking them off the street. I'm okay with tightening laws to do that but a lot of these terrorists are not high on the police radar before they strike because they aren't committing anything that could be classed as a crime before that strike.

    Finally we agree on what I have been trying to say from the beginning!

    We do need to get tough and maybe the definition of a criminal offence needs changing.

    We can't just and watch and wait anymore, that much cannot be denied.


  • #1034
    Boggy Turf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 427 ✭✭Boggy Turf


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    I am neither afraid or admitting defeat.

    Same. I go to London every month. I will continue to do so in the knowledge that experiencing a terror attack is still extremely rare. I will be somewhat more vigilant but that's about it.


  • #1035
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,434 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    And that includes families/friends of the 2 Irish lads caught with semtex the other day?

    And their neighbours anyone that the talked to.


  • #1036
    Hank Scorpio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,631 ✭✭✭✭Hank Scorpio


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    I agree. Action that is both controlled and measured. Not dumping people at sea as has been suggested

    Agree, but nothing can be done imo. Seed is already planted, we'll just have to bear the fruits of cultural enrichment.


  • #1037
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    tigger123 wrote: »
    What's your suggestion then? Internment?

    Internment would be one solution yes, if you are investigated and genuinely considered a threat.


  • #1038
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I'd wish you would stop accusing people that don't agree with your irrational methods of dealing with the situation of being in favour of 'doing nothing'. Thanks.

    I will stop when they start offering suggestions of their own instead of shouting everyone else down.


  • #1039
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Curbing immigration will not stop this. The scum will find ways to get in illegally and the people just trying to find a better life will suffer added to this the fact that most terrorists are home grown means it won't stop them. In addition the economy would suffer horribly. The UK has a low birth rate and needs plenty of workers to balance out the number of people retiring every month. Only way to get them is immigration.

    No what is needed (aside from counter terrorism operations which I am presuming are well funded) is to cut off the finance. Everything comes from money. Those that convert more extremists need to eat. Propoganda ads require money and they need weapons to keep up their struggle in the middle east. Any nation supporting them needs to be made a pariah. Instead we seem to just give them more weapons. Cut off the finance and they will fall. Once ISIS stops being a thing. Attacks in their name will stop.


  • #1040
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    pjohnson wrote: »
    You lot don't want this to stop.

    One of the more idiotic comments around.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'd wish you would stop accusing people that don't agree with your irrational methods of dealing with the situation of being in favour of 'doing nothing'. Thanks.

    For some people it's all or nothing. They can't see a middleground.


  • #1041
    tigger123
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,603 ✭✭✭tigger123


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Internment would be one solution yes, if you are investigated and genuinely considered a threat.

    Would everyone on a watch list be interned?


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  • #1042
    Allah snackbar
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 161 ✭✭Allah snackbar


    I would be in total favour of internment of anyone who expresses extremist views , anyone who supports or fights overseas for an extremist group , anyone who flagrantly flouts the religious and domestic laws and morals of the society they either grew up in or immigrated to , anyone who forms groups that tries to coerce people into thinking , acting or dressing a certain way outside of the laws laid down by the society they choose to stay in , if you can't conform to the society you live in for the greater good you either need to reform or be locked up to protect innocent people


  • #1043
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    tigger123 wrote: »
    Would everyone on a watch list be interned?

    Of course not but if you are considered a threat by the authorities surely it makes sense


  • #1044
    Captain Obvious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,165 ✭✭✭Captain Obvious


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Of course not but if you are considered a threat by the authorities surely it makes sense

    Because authorities never make mistakes.


  • #1045
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,762 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    By repeatedly shouting down those of us making suggestions on how deal with the issue and writing them off as stupid or impossible you and others are doing exactly that.

    The softly softly approach is not working. Why can't you and others accept that.

    The suggestions have been:

    Gas them (Obvs insane)
    Internment without trial (never worked in the past, why should it work now?)
    Deport citizens of the UK, after removing their citizenship, to some sandy country that they'll have to be accepted because that's where their ma/da are from. (Still can't get around to how anyone with a modicum of intelligence thinks that that's a good idea)
    Throw them in the sea.

    Have I missed any?

    Oh, travel ban, cos that will stop the (insert made up amount here) terrorists that are already in the UK.

    They're all mad ideas.

    As much as mine will be seen as insane as well: Stop bombing them. Stop killing people's mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, sons and daughters and maybe, just maybe we'll give them one less reason to bomb us.


  • #1046
    Christy42
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,106 ✭✭✭Christy42


    Allah snackbar wrote: »
    I would be in total favour of internment of anyone who expresses extremist views , anyone who supports or fights overseas for an extremist group , anyone who flagrantly flouts the religious and domestic laws and morals of the society they either grew up in or immigrated to , anyone who forms groups that tries to coerce people into thinking , acting or dressing a certain way outside of the laws laid down by the society they choose to stay in , if you can't conform to the society you live in for the greater good you either need to reform or be locked up to protect innocent people

    Or dressing a certain way? In addition it depends on the context for a lot of the above. Plenty of legalise weed groups tend to encourage people to flout the law. Encouraging people to dress differently simply describes all fashion trends.

    Maybe leave it at those who encourage violence against the general public?


  • #1047
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Finally we agree on what I have been trying to say from the beginning!

    We do need to get tough and maybe the definition of a criminal offence needs changing.

    We can't just and watch and wait anymore, that much cannot be denied.

    I agree we can't just continue as we are. It's clearly not working.

    But "getting tough" won't fix the problem in itself. There is no actual fix to this and terrorist attacks will be a fact of life for a generation at least.

    Personally, I think at some stage in the future, governments will have to engage in dialogue with the leaders of Islamic extremists to solve this problem. That's not possible now because the movement seems to be so fragmented and, understandably, it's not politically acceptable to even contemplate talking to them.


  • #1048
    Snake Plisken
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,053 ✭✭✭✭Snake Plisken


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    And that includes families/friends of the 2 Irish lads caught with semtex the other day?

    You asked me a question and I answered! Stop moving the goalposts! Don't know the case of about semitex but yes full investigation of family and friends!


  • #1049
    Romantic Rose
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭Romantic Rose


    In fairness, like I said already we are a completely soft touch. The 'man' who committed the Manchester terrorist attack was back and forth freely to Libya to fight as a 'freedom fighter'. At what stage do you just continually let them in when we are fully aware what is going on?


  • #1050
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,929 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    It is now clear they are fighting a war on two fronts in Europe and the west, the random, badly equipped and organised style attack like last night and the more organised and better equipped one in Manchester by ISIS trained operatives.

    What's done is done but one thing is sure they are never going to end this until there is a good long mature look taken at why it is happening.

    The koran and muslims have been around for centuries and are not the sole real cause of this relatively recent up surge in violence.
    Organised violence happens for a reason and has causes.
    Unfortunately we have seen violence many times before which was only solved/stopped when the root causes where addressed.
    I fear they (the British anyhow) will take 30 to 40 years to get the point. They never seem to learn from history. Your actions have consequences.


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  • #1051
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    The suggestions have been:

    Gas them (Obvs insane)
    Internment without trial (never worked in the past, why should it work now?)
    Deport citizens of the UK, after removing their citizenship, to some sandy country that they'll have to be accepted because that's where their ma/da are from. (Still can't get around to how anyone with a modicum of intelligence thinks that that's a good idea)
    Throw them in the sea.

    Have I missed any?

    Oh, travel ban, cos that will stop the (insert made up amount here) terrorists that are already in the UK.

    They're all mad ideas.

    As much as mine will be seen as insane as well: Stop bombing them. Stop killing people's mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, sons and daughters and maybe, just maybe we'll give them one less reason to bomb us.

    You forgot dumping them at sea


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