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London terror attack confirmed by Met Police

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Comments

  • #872
    no.8
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 821 ✭✭✭no.8


    wonderfullife wrote:
    All you have by way of suggestions are: "Stop them coming in" and "deport them", both of which are nonsense as all these UK attacks are coming from British citizens born in the UK.

    wonderfullife wrote:
    All you have by way of suggestions are: "Stop them coming in" and "deport them", both of which are nonsense as all these UK attacks are coming from British citizens born in the UK.


    Stop changing the narrative with ref. To dissident republician activity, thats all you lot can think of, 'but but this is happening/happened. They do not represent a clear and present danger to society in the manner of a backwards ideology which wants you dead simply for being born as we were, who don't care if you're a newborn or a man of elder years. Most of us agree that massive foreign policy gafs were made over recent years but can the likes of Sweden be blamed for that? No. 'IRA this...IRA that, the troubles' bla bla bla.... apologists like yourself will be bringing up the civil war at this point.

    The Ultra Left claim they support progress of the human race but understand we'll never achieve our potential in scientific discovery and engineering prowess with these extremist savages around.


  • #873
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    The gentlemen you quoted was being a tad facetious

    Too early in the morning. Didn't even look to see who the poster was. :-)


  • #874
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    Where do you deport British nationals to?

    At what point do you get deported? For attending the same mosque as a suspected terrorist? For being related to them?

    How do you think such a policy would affect the Muslims left behind in Britain?

    If you're known to the police and on their watch list then you've likely done a lot more than attending the same mosque as the known terrorist nor are they simply watching you because you share DNA with him.

    If you're shown to be for example actively embracing extremist ideology, reading extremist literature and regularly seen in the company of other known extremists then you should be considered a danger and treated accordingly.

    Home grown terrorists too want to be part of a Muslim only nation free of what they call infidels, why not send them to one? There are plenty in the Middle East to choose from.


  • #875
    PTH2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,527 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    Not sure do I want too head too London later this month for a concert now. I'm heading over the day before to do the usual tourist stuff

    This type of run amok type terrorism is hard too stop cause this guys can come out of nowhere

    If I'm in the wrong place at the wrong time than it's oblivion for me


  • #876
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    Persephone kindness wrote: »
    Muslims and Christians need to go to the same schools.

    How's that then? I mean the 7/7 bombers went to normal state schools, as did the killers of Lee Rigby, and the Manchester lad...


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  • #877
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Agent Coulson wrote: »
    If you are that scared move to Leitrim and dig a big hole and move in there set a timer to come out in 2027.


    You'll be ok then.

    10 years, I like your optimism.
    Have a good day Agent Coulson
    I wasn't trying to come down on you like a ton of bricks, sorry


  • #878
    Phil.x
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,793 ✭✭✭Phil.x


    Major respect to the British police for their great reactions.


  • #879
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,762 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Not sure do I want too head too London later this month for a concert now. I'm heading over the day before to do the usual tourist stuff

    This type of run amok type terrorism is hard too stop cause this guys can come out of nowhere

    If I'm in the wrong place at the wrong time than it's oblivion for me

    If it makes you feel better:


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jan/21/england-wales-homicides-rise-knife-gun-crime


    500 odd murders a year in wales and england.

    You'll be fine.


  • #880
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Phil.x wrote: »
    Major respect to the British police for their great reactions.

    Yes, true heros

    Unbelievable that many just had a plastic shield and baton

    Sending riot police into a situation like that is despicable


  • #881
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    If you're known to the police and on their watch list then you've likely done a lot more than attending the same mosque as the known terrorist nor are they simply watching you because you share DNA with him.

    If you're shown to be for example actively embracing extremist ideology, reading extremist literature and regularly seen in the company of other known extremists then you should be considered a danger and treated accordingly.

    Home grown terrorists too want to be part of a Muslim only nation free of what they call infidels, why not send them to one? There are plenty in the Middle East to choose from.

    So you think the Middle Eastern governments will be happy to accept British citizens who are suspected of being terrorists?

    So if you're in the company of an extremist, you should be deported? You're meeting someone for a coffee, neither of you has actually committed a crime, and you get thrown out of your country? Seriously?

    Trump tried to implement a less ridiculous ban in the US and look how that turned out.


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  • #882
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It'll be interesting were these guys known to the cops.

    It must be a kick in the teeth for victims families to keep hearing about these guys that were being watched or known to police.


  • #883
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,872 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Not sure do I want too head too London later this month for a concert now. I'm heading over the day before to do the usual tourist stuff

    This type of run amok type terrorism is hard too stop cause this guys can come out of nowhere

    If I'm in the wrong place at the wrong time than it's oblivion for me

    You could get hit by a car this afternoon walking through your home town with same result, go and enjoy the concert.


  • #884
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    PTH2009 wrote: »
    Not sure do I want too head too London later this month for a concert now. I'm heading over the day before to do the usual tourist stuff

    This type of run amok type terrorism is hard too stop cause this guys can come out of nowhere

    If I'm in the wrong place at the wrong time than it's oblivion for me

    To see us running scared and hiding is what these people want. We should not bow down to them.

    Go to London and have a great time, it's a wonderful city!


  • #885
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    So you think the Middle Eastern governments will be happy to accept British citizens who are suspected of being terrorists?

    So if you're in the company of an extremist, you should be deported? You're meeting someone for a coffee, neither of you has actually committed a crime, and you get thrown out of your country? Seriously?

    Trump tried to implement a less ridiculous ban in the US and look how that turned out.

    I missed the bit where meeting someone for a coffee gets you deported.

    If you're known to police or on any sort of watch list you shouldn't be roaming the streets.


  • #886
    Atoms for Peace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Yes, true heros

    Unbelievable that many just had a plastic shield and baton

    Sending riot police into a situation like that is despicable

    Should they have gone in with flamethrowers and bazooka's? The met know they're stuff I'm sure.


  • #887
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,872 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    RoboKlopp wrote: »
    I missed the bit where meeting someone for a coffee gets you deported.

    If you're known to police or on any sort of watch list you shouldn't be roaming the streets.

    Does this go for all countries? Would you be willing to pay an an extra 10% tax on income to help pay for the massive super prisons that would be needed to house hundreds if thousands of POTENTIAL terrorists?


  • #888
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    RoboKlopp wrote: »
    I missed the bit where meeting someone for a coffee gets you deported.

    If you're known to police or on any sort of watch list you shouldn't be roaming the streets.

    If you're "regularly seen in the company of other known extremists".


  • #889
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    So you think the Middle Eastern governments will be happy to accept British citizens who are suspected of being terrorists?

    So if you're in the company of an extremist, you should be deported? You're meeting someone for a coffee, neither of you has actually committed a crime, and you get thrown out of your country? Seriously?

    You're deliberately twisting my words.

    Again it's not just being in the company of terrorist that's the problem. It's being in the company of a terrorist regularly, being known to share the same ideology, reading the same extremist texts and so on.

    These things rightly raise red flags and I believe should be considered criminal offences.

    It's only a short jump from expressing extremist beliefs to acting on them.


  • #890
    Sunflower 27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,955 ✭✭✭Sunflower 27


    When the enemy doesn't care if they lose their life, or actually wants to, then you are fighting a losing battle.

    As sad and horrible as it is, this is what we face now. How can this be stopped when it only takes one or two maniacs to cause such a disaster?

    RIP to all those who were so needlessly slaughtered and to their families who face the ultimate heartbreak.


  • #891
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    If you're "regularly seen in the company of other known extremists".

    In this case you should be investigated. Surely that's common sense.


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  • #892
    Conservative
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭Conservative


    I think it's fair to say that due to long standing immigration policies the UK, France etc. are stuck with this.

    However, other countries in Europe like our own don't have such a history and have an opportunity to a) ban the entry of all Muslims going forward and b) return to sender those who are not required, including children born here.

    If you walk into any halal fast food shop in Ireland (not as common) or the UK you will find it staffed mostly by non-Irish/British Muslims. Why are we allowing such people to remain in our countries? There are plenty of illegals running Halal and Asian food stores here but it's never talked about.

    Islam is filth and the scourge of the world. Get rid of it where possible.


  • #893
    kaymin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,552 ✭✭✭kaymin


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    If you're "regularly seen in the company of other known extremists".

    How about not selectively quoting other people. The full comment was:

    If you're shown to be for example actively embracing extremist ideology, reading extremist literature and regularly seen in the company of other known extremists then you should be considered a danger and treated accordingly.


  • #894
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 45,738 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    Does this go for all countries? Would you be willing to pay an an extra 10% tax on income to help pay for the massive super prisons that would be needed to house hundreds if thousands of POTENTIAL terrorists?

    What a ridiculous question.

    Firstly, do people get a choice of whether they pay your make believe tax?

    Hundreds of thousands of potential terrorises? Where? In Ireland? I doubt it.

    Thats the problem with these debates. People on either side of the extreme lose the run of themselves.


  • #895
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    If you're "regularly seen in the company of other known extremists".

    Why would a person associate regularly with an Islamic extremist?

    If one of my mates started to sell drugs or become involved in threatening criminality, guess what? I wouldn't associate with them.


  • #896
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,296 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    So will this be the rest of Europe in 20 years time when the second generation of the million or so Muslims that have come illegally decide to do the same thing.

    These guys doing this now are born in Britain it seems but who's parents came to the country.


  • #897
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    You're deliberately twisting my words.

    Again it's not just being in the company of terrorist that's the problem. It's being in the company of a terrorist regularly, being known to share the same ideology, reading the same extremist texts and so on.

    These things rightly raise red flags and I believe should be considered criminal offences.

    It's only a short jump from expressing extremist beliefs to acting on them.

    Someone quoted a number of 3000 people on the watchlist recently. Most of whom have never committed an actual crime. You'd deport all these people?

    In my view, your criteria is still not enough to deport people. You'll also end up disenfranchising the remaining Muslims and create more extremists.

    You still haven't properly explained where you'd deport the British nationals to.


  • #898
    Tom Mann Centuria
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,324 ✭✭✭✭Tom Mann Centuria


    Stop considering Saudi Arabia an ally, and start trying to force them to halt the massive ideological and monetary support coming from that part of the world would be a start.

    Edit: bit of background info [url] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/home-office-terrorist-funding-report-saudia-arabia-focus-not-publish-conservatives-government-a7766381.html[/url]

    Oh well, give me an easy life and a peaceful death.



  • #899
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,021 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Atoms for Peace wrote: »
    Should they have gone in with flamethrowers and bazooka's? The met know they're stuff I'm sure.

    Yes that's exactly what I was implying

    Perhaps the met have other weapons at their disposal, apart from plastic shields, flamethrowers and bazookas


  • #900
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    Someone quoted a number of 3000 people on the watchlist recently. Most of whom have never committed an actual crime. You'd deport all these people?

    In my view, your criteria is still not enough to deport people. You'll also end up disenfranchising the remaining Muslims and create more extremists.

    You still haven't properly explained where you'd deport the British nationals to.

    If these people are known to police for involvement in extremism then yes they should be deported. They are clearly dangerous individuals or they would not be being watched.

    As for the home grown terrorists, I did in fact say that they should be sent back to any one of the many conservative Muslim countries in Middle East, they are the kind of places they want to live in after all.


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  • #901
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,885 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    RoboKlopp wrote: »
    In this case you should be investigated. Surely that's common sense.

    You'd need some resources to investigate everyone who associates with people on the watchlist and most of those investigations would come to nothing.

    Also, under the current laws, none of this is a crime. To go from that to deportation (of British nationals) is just never going to happen.


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