Zimbabwe hunter 'crushed to death by shot elephant'

Discodog wrote: »

Tigers will only come close to humans if they are unable to catch food due to injury or old age.

You really should read it .....

dodderangler wrote: »

Wow cute story kid. So what website did you steal that one from?? You think hunters all fit in the same category?? You don't think we havint helped?? You think we just go around killing everything huh? You do know that 90% of hunters don't agree with snares don't you? You should also know that any real angler won't leave his line and hooks discarded without bringing them home or burning the line there and then. I've also taken line off of swans and ducks and even herons. It's called having compassion for a suffering animal. It's what majority of real hunters have. Are you " townies" doing anything about the fox populations or the mink? Are you doing anything about the magpies and crows?? Are you doing anything about the countless amount of ground nesting birds that are being destroyed by these predators? Or the amount of livestock and poultry ( aka farmers livelihood) being destroyed by them? No you are not!! Guess who is?!

I am probably older & definitely wiser than you. Why shouldn't I think that all "hunters" are the same ? After all you think that everyone who lives in a town is the same. I am sure that there are some, for want of a better word, honorable or responsible hunters. But I could never understand how someone, who enjoys killing, can ever have compassion.

I have had to kill countless wildlife, in the course of rescue & euthanasia. But I have never gone out with killing as the purpose. Not only can't I see your point of view but I genuinely think that there is something wrong with you. I would say the same of anyone who kills for recreation. I would also say the same of someone who is so arrogant that they consider themselves to be the only person worthy of an opinion.

I don't generally have a problem with Anglers. I have attended meetings with angling groups. You may not willfully discard lines & hooks. The problem comes when a hook gets snagged & the line either snaps or has to be cut away. You aren't going to wade into the river to retrieve it.

I live in the countryside & I have done way more than you could ever imagine regarding foxes. They don't need controlling. Neither do Magpies or Crows. Nature has been controlling them without the need for you to reach for your pop gun or the cruel Larsen traps. When you kill a fox, crow or magpie you simply create an empty territory that another fills.

People like you love it when you can call a creature Vermin. It's seen as an excuse to abandon all the normal laws & rules regarding cruelty. Killing vermin & allowing their young to starve to death is fine for you. It would be illegal for any other animal but the "V" word means that it's open season even though they have the same ability to feel pain & distress as any other animal.

The farmers have a duty to live with nature & not destroy it. Many do & they won't allow hunting on their land. You make out that you are the Saint & Saviour of the countryside. The reality is that you use this "justification" as an excuse to kill animals for pleasure. You enjoy getting your pop gun & killing.

Discodog wrote: »

I am probably older & definitely wiser than you. Why shouldn't I think that all "hunters" are the same ? After all you think that everyone who lives in a town is the same. I am sure that there are some, for want of a better word, honorable or responsible hunters. But I could never understand how someone, who enjoys killing, can ever have compassion.

I have had to kill countless wildlife, in the course of rescue & euthanasia. But I have never gone out with killing as the purpose. Not only can't I see your point of view but I genuinely think that there is something wrong with you. I would say the same of anyone who kills for recreation. I would also say the same of someone who is so arrogant that they consider themselves to be the only person worthy of an opinion.

I don't generally have a problem with Anglers. I have attended meetings with angling groups. You may not willfully discard lines & hooks. The problem comes when a hook gets snagged & the line either snaps or has to be cut away. You aren't going to wade into the river to retrieve it.

I live in the countryside & I have done way more than you could ever imagine regarding foxes. They don't need controlling. Neither do Magpies or Crows. Nature has been controlling them without the need for you to reach for your pop gun or the cruel Larsen traps. When you kill a fox, crow or magpie you simply create an empty territory that another fills.

People like you love it when you can call a creature Vermin. It's seen as an excuse to abandon all the normal laws & rules regarding cruelty. Killing vermin & allowing their young to starve to death is fine for you. It would be illegal for any other animal but the "V" word means that it's open season even though they have the same ability to feel pain & distress as any other animal.

The farmers have a duty to live with nature & not destroy it. Many do & they won't allow hunting on their land. You make out that you are the Saint & Saviour of the countryside. The reality is that you use this "justification" as an excuse to kill animals for pleasure. You enjoy getting your pop gun & killing.

There is just so much wrong with your response that it's not even worth pointing out the flaws in it.
But you know what I will enjoy my "killing" and eating beautiful healthy meat. You stick to your Disney world kid. Remember the sky isn't always blue and animals can't sing.

ScumLord wrote: »

Next you'll be telling me Americas full of cats and they pave their streets with concrete.

There are no cats in America and the streets are filled with cheeese

dodderangler wrote: »

Yes it does. If you don't own any livestock or are in full view of the wildlife and effects predation and vermin have on the land and farmers then you have no opinion. You can't say this and that about hunters without knowing what we do.

I don't have to live in the country to know there is something very wrong about some-one who seems to get such pleasure out of killing animals.

I can tell there's going to be no convincing you you're wrong, at least not publicly but I think in private you need to take a good long hard look at yourself.

You can dress it up any way you want but at the end of the day you hunt for fun, nothing more.

And I cannot and will not try to understand that mindset.

dodderangler wrote: »

But you know what I will enjoy my "killing" and eating beautiful healthy meat.

The guy in the story in the OP, Theunis Botha, did not lead hunting safaris for meat or for population control so a lot of your points are irrelevant to this discussion. The people who hunt the 'Big Five' in African countries (African lion, African elephant, Cape buffalo, African leopard, and rhinoceros) are looking for trophies, nothing more.

Theunis Botha specialised in hunting lions and leopards with dogs, according to his website. The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species lists the African leopard as 'vulnerable', and puts the African lion in the same category.

ScumLord wrote: »

These guys don't represent the majority of hunters though, they're a rarefied group of rich people that like status symbols. It's pretty primitive behaviour and not really hunting as most hunters would know it.

That may be true, but this thread is actually about one of these guys

Discodog wrote: »

I am probably older & definitely wiser than you. Why shouldn't I think that all "hunters" are the same ? After all you think that everyone who lives in a town is the same. I am sure that there are some, for want of a better word, honorable or responsible hunters. But I could never understand how someone, who enjoys killing, can ever have compassion.

I have had to kill countless wildlife, in the course of rescue & euthanasia. But I have never gone out with killing as the purpose. Not only can't I see your point of view but I genuinely think that there is something wrong with you. I would say the same of anyone who kills for recreation. I would also say the same of someone who is so arrogant that they consider themselves to be the only person worthy of an opinion.

I don't generally have a problem with Anglers. I have attended meetings with angling groups. You may not willfully discard lines & hooks. The problem comes when a hook gets snagged & the line either snaps or has to be cut away. You aren't going to wade into the river to retrieve it.

I live in the countryside & I have done way more than you could ever imagine regarding foxes. They don't need controlling. Neither do Magpies or Crows. Nature has been controlling them without the need for you to reach for your pop gun or the cruel Larsen traps. When you kill a fox, crow or magpie you simply create an empty territory that another fills.

People like you love it when you can call a creature Vermin. It's seen as an excuse to abandon all the normal laws & rules regarding cruelty. Killing vermin & allowing their young to starve to death is fine for you. It would be illegal for any other animal but the "V" word means that it's open season even though they have the same ability to feel pain & distress as any other animal.

The farmers have a duty to live with nature & not destroy it. Many do & they won't allow hunting on their land. You make out that you are the Saint & Saviour of the countryside. The reality is that you use this "justification" as an excuse to kill animals for pleasure. You enjoy getting your pop gun & killing.

I live in the countryside and am a landowner, I do not allow hunting and neither do the majority of my neighbouring farmers here...in fact only one farmer allows hunters on his land here.

Its the hunters that we worry about on our lands...not the wildlife.
This is not the city/country divide some would have you believe

ScumLord wrote: »

But hunting in general seems to be the main focus of a lot of posters.

Right, and I was just pointing out that's it's gone wildly off topic. You can't really compare trophy hunters hunting vulnerable African species such as leopards and lions to someone culling deer.

ScumLord wrote: »

As far as I'm concerned Ireland is an urbanised land, it's not a natural environment. We don't really have to deal with wildlife here.

But she's sort of misrepresenting hunting with that statement. The people who enjoy hunting don't always have to kill something to have fun, it's the hunting that's enjoyable, part of that involves killing something but there's more to hunting than just killing something, hunters often have a much more intimate knowledge of the animals they hunt than most other people would. It's like saying snooker players just like potting red balls. That's all there is to snooker and that's all they care about.

Really ? Are you being serious ? Ireland is full of wildlife & the hunters will tell you that it has to be controlled & they are the ones to do it.

Of course hunters don't have to kill but then why do they ? If a walk around the field gives pleasure then why not take a camera instead of a gun ?

Yes of course they have knowledge because it's essential for their "sport." But they say that they are the only one's with knowledge & that they are right when others disagree. Their knowledge is very selective to justify the act of killing. They ignore knowledge that doesn't support their cause.

gctest50 wrote: »

Cos SD cards aren't near as tasty as deer

What do Magpies or Crows taste like ?

Discodog wrote: »

Of course hunters don't have to kill but then why do they ? If a walk around the field gives pleasure then why not take a camera instead of a gun ?

Yes of course they have knowledge because it's essential for their "sport." But they say that they are the only one's with knowledge & that they are right when others disagree. .

Well for one we don't take a camera because we're not photographers. We're hunters.
But aren't you clearly claiming your right when we disagree? Don't know what your smoking but maybe keep it down to 3 joints a day instead of ten.

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I'm misrepresenting nothing. Killing is part of the hunt and it's clear that most hunters including yourself and the hunter in the story we're discussing, enjoy that part as much as the seeking and stalking the animal.

I'm not a hunter, I don't go hunting but not really surprising to see more assumptions creeping in. I don't assume I know peoples thoughts better than they do. I don't assume I know how something should be run better than the people who live and work there, in a country thousands of miles away.

I'm aware of the fact I don't have all the facts so I'm not going to condemn a person, a people and a nation based on a few hundred words written by a sensationalist media. All I've really done here is play devil's advocate to your certainty and you've put a gun in my hand and created a story about me that couldn't be further from the truth.

osarusan wrote: »

You do though when you go on about 'city folk' and what they do and don't know about nature.

That's true, I assume that the people that live in these places know better than the people who've barely ever even been in the countryside never mind live there. You got me on that one.