Fine Gael's Next Top Model 2017

TerrorFirmer · 19-05-2017 01:36PM

I prefer Simon Coveney, always struck me as slightly more sincere, though I don't have any great issue with Leo Varadkar. Be interesting to see what happens Simon when Leo wins, or vice versa if there's an upset.

Foxhound38 · 19-05-2017 01:39PM

A quick note on judging Enda - I have noticed a lot of people I know who would be of a left wing persuasion hockeying him because he didn't achieve X or Y that they found important. That's their right, but if you do judge him based on left or centre-left policy priorities, of course he's not going to score highly, because he's a centre-right politician (despite the ridiculous hysteria about him being some sort of far right, frothing at the mouth, Mussolini-style uber-fascist from the usual corners - Paul Murphy etc).

If you're looking to ascertain his overall effectiveness while at the helm, it's more useful to judge him based on what he set out to do rather than what we felt he should have been doing. In that, he was middling - not useless, not brilliantly effective. A reasonably safe pair of hands who failed on housing and succeeded on Europe. Someone who likely wasn't personally corrupt but didn't do enough about the rot in public institutions like the Gardai. His actions probably saved the economy but also eroded public trust in the State to an extent not seen in many decades - certainly not in my lifetime.

History will probably be kind to him in the grand scheme of things because of the things he did, though his legacy will be tarnished too by his failure to act on several key issues that look like they will get worse and lead to other problems before they get better.

On a personal level he seemed like an affable enough chap. Either way, while I don't agree with everything he did in office, he did the State some service at a time when the task wasn't exactly easy and I wish him all the best in the future.

ZeroThreat · 19-05-2017 02:25PM

Your Face wrote: »

Enda was a legend.
A big legend from from Mayo.

That reminds me, - anyone know where you can buy Lilt nowadays?

Boom_Bap · 19-05-2017 03:20PM

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

Enda is that you ?
:eek:

please helpThank YOU
If you find yourself writing a post again with:

Enda is that you ?
Leo is that you ?
Hi Enda

or anything similar, just delete it. Do not post it. It serves no purpose.

Anita Blow · 19-05-2017 03:44PM

Indifferent towards either of them but I believe Coveney has a little anti-Dublin streak in him. There's nothing wrong with that of course and politics in Ireland are already too Dublin centric absolutely, but with Brexit there must be a realisation that Dublin is the only gig in town for attracting foreign businesses. Citibank, JP Morgan etc etc don't want to move to Athlone from London. We need a strong Dublin with appropriate investment in infrastructure so that the country as a whole can grow, but I don't believe Coveney will do that for as long as he has a rural chip on his shoulder

Sosurface · 19-05-2017 06:42PM

Anita Blow wrote: »

with Brexit there must be a realisation that Dublin is the only gig in town for attracting foreign businesses. Citibank, JP Morgan etc etc don't want to move to Athlone from London.

This is exactly what must be avoided at all cost. Dublin is a ****ing disaster overloaded to maximum capacity and with no infrastructure/space for more businesses. Where will the employees live? Its this type of policy that created the situation we're in.

Capt'n Midnight · 19-05-2017 07:41PM

seamus wrote: »

I won't argue the toss about whether FG/Kenny did anything to make it happen, but what they did was resist the calls to take ridiculous and drastic actions which would have pushed us further into the quagmire.

It could have been much worse.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0519/876354-greece-austerity/

Greece's parliament has approved pension cuts and tax hikes sought by the country's lenders to unlock vital financial aid, as angry demonstrators protested in central Athens over new austerity.
...
It agreed to adopt more austerity, which will be implemented in 2019 and 2020, to convince the International Monetary Fund to participate financially in its latest €86bn bailout.

The big questions are will there be bad blood like the way the PD's split from FF in the past or who the other parties can deal with to form a coalition.

If there is a split or if there is no possibility of a deal (unlikely) then FG would be right back where they were when FF was buying elections.

red ears · 19-05-2017 07:44PM

I haven't been eating or sleeping since enda left

WoolyJumper · 19-05-2017 10:28PM

I'm a gay Corkonian so it's a win - win for me really...

Really though, I'm not a Fine Gael supporter. I don't know enough about their individual political views to know which is the lesser "evil" Either way i'm not excited. I've heard that Varadkar would be the more conservative of the two and I wasn't a fan of his little welfare fraud campaign when nothing is said about the much bigger white collar crime. Simon on the other hand is just another political dynasty with his own business interests. I don't really know much about him, other than when I see him blowing hot air about the event centre is "definitely" being built in Cork... sure wasn't their a digger on site and everything.

zetalambda · 20-05-2017 01:04AM

I just don't get politics. The right, the left, the far right, the center left

JupiterKid · 20-05-2017 06:00AM

I personally prefer Coveney over Varadkar. Leo is quite arrogant and slick and can talk the talk but can he deliver? Coveney seems to be a very reserved type.

Varadkar cutting 30% from the mental health budget was despicable. It is already the Cinderella of the health sector.

Jim Bob Scratcher · 20-05-2017 07:08AM

I hope Coveney gets it but it's highly unlikely, he seems decent and is quite honest about his struggles as a rebellious teenager. As for Leo, the guy is a smuggest Kunt i've ever seen, all talk, no action, an Enda Kenny prototype except much more incompetent . What exactly are Leo's credentials ? besides spouting nonsense and not backing it up ? And don't get me started about he would do on the world stage..

Pivot Eoin · 20-05-2017 07:26AM

Surprised to see absolutely nobody comment on the fact that Coveney was the man spouting himself as the man to get Ireland out of the housing crisis that it is in, and effectively looking to abandon post after failure upon failure.

The man set himself a target of 8000 Builds in the first 6 months, widely Acknowledged to be only 33% of the level which is actually necessary to make a difference and possible when compared to Build Rate in the UK. He fell short of his own meagre target by more than 50%, and is now looking for a promotion to lead this country in the short term? Building 3300, out of a necessary 24,000. That's 14.5%, which is failure in any exam situation. Man is a failure.

Get f***ing lost. Varadkar has his negatives for sure, but would take anyone over Coveney.

RabbleRouser2k · 20-05-2017 07:49AM

BoatMad wrote: »

personally I thought him to be gaff prone and ineffectual

Ah, but Cowen became a joke on the international stage-he was even a punch line on JAy Leno.

Ahern was edited to look smart-as in if you watched TV3 and RTE, you saw a bumbling, stuttering 'orator' on Tv3, on RTE you saw a guy with a certain way of speaking, seemingly eloquent.

Kenny was tougher behind the scenes-seeming nice guy, but tough as nails. The way he shut down Coveney and LEo's campaigning was a quiet master stroke.

red ears · 20-05-2017 08:48AM

Leo will Mr. Privitisation.

Permabear · 20-05-2017 02:21PM

This post has been deleted.

Peregrine · 20-05-2017 02:25PM

Coveney cancelled an event in Cork today. Irish Times reporting that he's considering withdrawal.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/coveney-considers-conceding-as-varadkar-in-pole-position-1.3090653

C Montgomery Gurns II · 20-05-2017 05:59PM

Peregrine wrote: »

Coveney cancelled an event in Cork today. Irish Times reporting that he's considering withdrawal.

If only his father had considered withdrawal.

Rumpy Pumpy · 20-05-2017 06:22PM

C Montgomery Gurns II wrote: »

If only his father had considered withdrawal.

You stay classy.

C Montgomery Gurns II · 20-05-2017 06:27PM

Rumpy Pumpy wrote: »

You stay classy.

I reserve abuse for the worst politicians.

Kenny was a decent, if imperfect, skin. He deserves an awful lot more credit for his achievements than he does for his failings (and there are failings)

Coveney is a vile character. Europhile, Bilderberger, friend of Peter Sutherland, a truly dangerous individual.

I'd still rather Varadkar, although reading today that he is a great admirer of Marcon and Justin Tredeau (arguably the worst leader of a major Western nation in decades) is a cause for concern.

RabbleRouser2k · 20-05-2017 10:46PM

Personally, I don't like either of them-Leo is the better choice, but I feel it's almost a case of 'oh, we'd be so modern with a gay leader of the party'...and that's grand and all, but what has he done? I mean, this is the guy who only a few weeks ago was talking about shutting down CIE for good, as in if it didn't affect Dublin, it didn't matter. Then Dublin Bus went on strike ( he underestimated the solidarity workers) and he looked like an idiot.
He often blurts out things that he just overhears-as in it's not confirmed, it's usually a rumour, and he reports it as facts. The media love him, but the people-less so. Similar to Coveney, he's been poor/ relatively disastrous in most of the areas he's occupied. And the Mental health thing...unforgiveaable, especially in a country where Mental HEalth care is treated as the black sheep-nobody talks about it, but it's in a crisis situation. If you suffer from it, at all, you're often talked down to. And for a qualified Doctor to do such a thing, that's unforgivable in my eyes. But then again, this is the guy who followed on after James Reilly, another terrible health minister. (I think Harney was probably the worst tbh).
As even he notes-he's not a people person-but if he assumed leadership, he won't work out too well. You have to be able to work with people, and he'll just look clueless.

On the other hand, Coveney, as I said before, has failed in every division he's worked in. When he was minister for agriculture, farmers were picketing the factory's. He covered up for his brother when he was also inept at his job. And he's hardly endearing to the public-comes across as that guy who was a jerk in secondary school, and is still a jerk.
His comments about 'choirboys' just came across as a sore loser. A bit of Bushism, going on too-seemingly like he wants to continue his family legacy or some crud. But it don't matter if you're not the right guy for the job.

Would have preferred a different candidate to the two of em tbh.

C Montgomery Gurns II · 21-05-2017 09:21AM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

On the other hand, Coveney, as I said before, has failed in every division he's worked in. .

I dislike Coveney but to be fair there is/ has been some movement made on social housing and housing output in general, as well as the projected end to the financial black hole that is hotel room social accommodation.

Still, Coveney stood up in the Dail and said that he wouldn't be surprised if our refugee intake quota (which is already too high as it is) would extend up to, IIRC, 14,000 people, virtually all of whom will be given priority allocation of social housing, for no other reason than to boost Coveney's career opportunities in Brussels.

infogiver · 21-05-2017 09:25AM

C Montgomery Gurns II wrote: »

If only his father had considered withdrawal.

This is the peak level of debate on the Far Left.
You've been on some SF Facebook page too long Gurns!

C Montgomery Gurns II · 21-05-2017 09:28AM

infogiver wrote: »

This is the peak level of debate on the Far Left.
You've been on some SF Facebook page too long Gurns!

I've never been more offended by anything than to be called far left. I support Trump FFS :pac:

Anyway, ladies and gents, your would be Taoiseach

red ears · 21-05-2017 09:44AM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

If you're happy with an American style health system and the likes of Denis O'Brien owning our water then Leo is your man. Although afaik you live in America.

Annasopra · 21-05-2017 09:54AM

Books4you wrote: »

I see Leo is getting backed by all the top brass in FG. Question, If/When whoever becomes leader is there a cabinet reshuffle or plain sailing?

Yes there will be a reshuffle. Noonan is gone. Likely Kenny won't reenter cabinet. That is 2 spare seats. He will probably a few backers and demote Harris for backing Coveney.

Phoebas · 21-05-2017 09:55AM

C Montgomery Gurns II wrote: »

Anyway, ladies and gents, your would be Taoiseach

He's gone up in my estimation after watching that.

C Montgomery Gurns II · 21-05-2017 10:15AM

Phoebas wrote: »

He's gone up in my estimation after watching that.

Palling about with a nefarious creep like Sutherland at a secretive, non transparent international summit is a good thing?

RayM · 21-05-2017 12:08PM

Varadkar wants Ireland to be a country that "rewards work". What he really means is that those who don't work or can't find work will be punished and further marginalised, not that those who have jobs will be rewarded with any kind of improvements in their own standard of living.

fly_agaric · 21-05-2017 12:36PM

RayM wrote: »

Varadkar wants Ireland to be a country that "rewards work". What he really means is that those who don't work or can't find work will be punished and further marginalised, not that those who have jobs will be rewarded with any kind of improvements in their own standard of living.

I don't see that the other fellow would be much different. Might be far less blunt in what he says, will probably more prone to mouth platitudes our electorate like about good old "rural Ireland" and all that bullshít, but also a man who'd likely be suspicious of anything a bit socialist + prefer to keep the state well out of the market unless its to put the finger on the scales somehow for big business, "job creators" etc.

Fine Gael's Next Top Model 2017

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