The Savage Peace, the Forgotten atrocity of WWII

Alizrian Crimson · 18-05-2017 04:42PM #1

So I watched 'The Savage Peace' the other night. It's about the atrocities inflicted upon the Germans by the Soviets and other Eastern Europeans. I was well aware the Soviets committed war rape upon the German population but I had little understanding of the ethnic cleansing of the German minorities in countries like Czechoslovakia and Poland. Millions tortured and murdered, women and children held in rape camps. These weren't German colonists but ethnic Germans who had lived in these regions for hundreds of years. They were civilians for the large part.

Some will say the Germans deserved it but does a young girl deserve to be raped to death for the crimes of SS men?

Why don't we talk about this? Why wasn't I taught this in school?

The documentary is still available on the RTE player (I think) and I urge you to watch it. The line between the good and bad guys is very thin.

Donald Trump · 18-05-2017 04:48PM

Did you not get the memo about not mentioning the War?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfl6Lu3xQW0

Roger Hassenforder · 18-05-2017 04:52PM

Alizrian Crimson wrote: »

I watched 'The Savage Peace' the other night.

The documentary is still available on the RTE player (I think) and I urge you to watch it. The line between the good and bad guys is very thin.

Moving programme all right.
What struck me was the cruelty the Czechs (and others) visited on kids and people for merely speaking German, and the hatred that old lady outside the snowy gate still had.
Had never heard of the ethnic cleansing or the concentration camps they were put into.
Well worth watching.

fergiesfolly · 18-05-2017 04:56PM

I had read before about the crimes committed upon ethnic Germans in eastern Europe. But as in all wars, the victor writes the history and these people were always unlikely to have the same sypathy availed to them as the victims of German oppression.

Haven't seen this documentary OP.
Was there much mention of the treatment by ethnic Germans in eastern Europe towards the indigenous people, once the Nazi's took power

Lyle Lanley · 18-05-2017 04:58PM

There were no good guys, despite what the Brits and yanks like to portray.

neverever1 · 18-05-2017 05:22PM

The bombing of Dresden was a horrible, disgusting act.

Roger Hassenforder · 18-05-2017 05:55PM

fergiesfolly wrote: »

Was there much mention of the treatment by ethnic Germans in eastern Europe towards the indigenous people, once the Nazi's took power

it was what was done to them after the war was over

Roger Hassenforder · 18-05-2017 05:57PM

its on youtube.

b_mac2 · 18-05-2017 06:02PM

Plenty of dirty communist/Soviet supporters on here, hopefully they'll be along soon to explain these actions better for us stupid fascists.

mikeybrennan · 18-05-2017 06:04PM

b_mac2 wrote: »

Plenty of dirty communist/Soviet supporters on here, hopefully they'll be along soon to explain these actions better for us stupid fascists.

Decent Trollbait to get the ball rolling

Alizrian Crimson · 18-05-2017 06:06PM

Plenty of them over on Politics.ie saying the Germans deserved it. Those people will certainly enjoy this documentary.

Largest ethnic cleansing in human history and most outside Germany probably have no idea it happened.

The Pheasant2 · 18-05-2017 06:10PM

Alizrian Crimson wrote: »

Largest ethnic cleansing in human history and most outside Germany probably have no idea it happened.

Larger than the holocaust?

neverever1 · 18-05-2017 06:12PM

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

Larger than the holocaust?

I think starving 7 million Indians to death means the brits win this 'honour'.

Irish Praetorian · 18-05-2017 06:41PM

Lyle Lanley wrote: »

There were no good guys, despite what the Brits and yanks like to portray.

No 'good guys' seems fair, but there are less bad guys certainly.

Jimoslimos · 18-05-2017 06:46PM

I think the attitude of many of the Anglophone countries galls many Europeans when it comes to the world wars. Undoubtedly all countries suffered enormous casualties, but for the British, American, and Australians the vast majority of these were military (the Blitz, Pearl Harbour, etc, aside). The war in Europe had a far greater impact on civilians.

People in Europe saw the good, bad and ugly side of soldiers and occupying forces (Allied, Soviets, and Nazis). People in Britain and the US only heard the good - and have been celebrating that fact ever since.

odyssey06 · 18-05-2017 08:14PM

It's what happens when you start a savage war and then don't surrender when you've clearly lost the war and are incapable of defending your citizens anymore...

The Germans lost World War One, they didn't accept it, they started World War Two... they can't say they didn't lose that one when their cities were flattened and homelands invaded... no coincidence after that there's been no attempt on their part to start a World War Three.

As for the occupying forces of the Allies, ask yourself would you have preferred to be under Soviet occupation rather than Anglo-American-Commonwealth? Anyone who picks the Soviets is either a fool or a "useful idiot".

The Anglo-American alliance were the "good guys" in World War Two, as much as any side could ever be the "good guys" in a total war - they were all that stood between civilization versus tyranny and darkness.

odyssey06 · 18-05-2017 08:21PM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

People in Europe saw the good, bad and ugly side of soldiers and occupying forces (Allied, Soviets, and Nazis). People in Britain and the US only heard the good - and have been celebrating that fact ever since.

Had it not been for the Anglo-American forces, all the people of Europe would have seen for generations would have been the bad and the ugly.

neverever1 · 18-05-2017 08:22PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

It's what happens when you start a savage war and then don't surrender when you've clearly lost the war and are incapable of defending your citizens anymore...

The Germans lost World War One, they didn't accept it, they started World War Two... they can't say they didn't lose that one when their cities were flattened and homelands invaded... no coincidence after that there's been no attempt on their part to start a World War Three.

As for the occupying forces of the Allies, ask yourself would you have preferred to be under Soviet occupation rather than Anglo-American-Commonwealth? Anyone who picks the Soviets is either a fool or a "useful idiot".

The Anglo-American alliance were the "good guys" in World War Two, as much as any side could ever be the "good guys" in a total war - they were all that stood between civilization versus tyranny and darkness.

The nazis could only dream about the evils reached by the british empire!

odyssey06 · 18-05-2017 08:24PM

Jimoslimos wrote: »

People in Britain and the US only heard the good - and have been celebrating that fact ever since.

The Soviet name for World War Two was "The Great Patriotic War".

France celebrates 70 years of the liberation of Paris:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11053722/Paris-to-celebrate-70-years-since-liberation-from-Nazi-occupation-with-little-contribution-from-US-or-UK.html

odyssey06 · 18-05-2017 08:27PM

Alizrian Crimson wrote: »

Plenty of them over on Politics.ie saying the Germans deserved it. Those people will certainly enjoy this documentary.
Largest ethnic cleansing in human history and most outside Germany probably have no idea it happened.

I don't know if the Germans 'deserved' it. But they clearly brought terrible retribution back on themselves by fighting a war on the Eastern front without rules... did they think if they lost the war the Soviets would treat them as nicely as the Western Allies did as Versailles?

odyssey06 · 18-05-2017 08:34PM

neverever1 wrote: »

The bombing of Dresden was a horrible, disgusting act.

Would I have signed off on that attack... maybe, maybe not... do I understand why the men who flew that mission wanted to flatten a German city after watching the Germans try to do the same to London, Coventry, Liverpool etc?
Yes, I do.

Zebra3 · 18-05-2017 08:35PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

It's what happens when you start a savage war and then don't surrender when you've clearly lost the war and are incapable of defending your citizens anymore...

The Germans lost World War One, they didn't accept it, they started World War Two... they can't say they didn't lose that one when their cities were flattened and homelands invaded... no coincidence after that there's been no attempt on their part to start a World War Three.

As for the occupying forces of the Allies, ask yourself would you have preferred to be under Soviet occupation rather than Anglo-American-Commonwealth? Anyone who picks the Soviets is either a fool or a "useful idiot".

The Anglo-American alliance were the "good guys" in World War Two, as much as any side could ever be the "good guys" in a total war - they were all that stood between civilization versus tyranny and darkness.

The Anglo-American alliance was one through out history that destroyed civilisations. Genocide against the natives of North America, Australia, and India for starters.

Saw an interview with an African-American who fought in WWII.

"I went to Europe to fight facism, defeated it, and then came home to fight it again".

The Brits were running concentration camps in Kenya and starving millions to death in India in the 1940s.

The idea that either of those countries were some sort of civilised states is nothing but repugnant propaganda.

neverever1 · 18-05-2017 08:39PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Would I have signed off on that attack... maybe, maybe not... do I understand why the men who flew that mission wanted to flatten a German city after watching the Germans try to do the same to London, Coventry, Liverpool etc?
Yes, I do.

So you're ok with the murder of thousands of civilians?

odyssey06 · 18-05-2017 08:40PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

The Anglo-American alliance was one through out history that destroyed civilisations. Genocide against the natives of North America, Australia, and India for starters.

Saw an interview with an African-American who fought in WWII.
"I went to Europe to fight facism, defeated it, and then came home to fight it again".

The Brits were running concentration camps in Kenya and starving millions to death in India in the 1940s.

The idea that either of those countries were some sort of civilised states is nothing but repugnant propaganda.

What happened those African-Americans? The Americans put them into uniforms. Within a generation the civil rights act was passed, within another generation we have African-American politicians and in the next generation an African-American president.

Don't even begin to compare 'concentration camps' used by Britain in their strict sense - to concentrate people in camps, versus the deliberate extermination camps run by the Nazis.

The Nazis didn't put their minorities into uniform, or treat them as second class citizens. They didn't treat them as citizens or even as humans. If the Nazis had gotten their hands on the African-Americans there would be no Martin Luther King, no Jesse Jackson, no Barack Obama.

You deserve to live in a universe ala Man in the High Castle where the Nazis won. I think that would quickly lead to an appreciation of the civilized qualities of the Anglo-American alliance.

Humanity is fortunate that at a crucial point in our history, we had people of the calibre of Churchill, Roosevelt, Marshall, Eisenhower to hold the line for the nations representing freedom and democracy against tyranny.

odyssey06 · 18-05-2017 08:45PM

neverever1 wrote: »

So you're ok with the murder of thousands of civilians?

Whatever it was, it was not murder.

neverever1 · 18-05-2017 08:46PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

What happened those African-Americans? The Americans put them into uniforms. Within a generation the civil rights act was passed, within another generation we have African-American politicians and in the next generation an African-American president.

Don't even begin to compare 'concentration camps' used by Britain in their strict sense - to concentrate people in camps, versus the deliberate extermination camps run by the Nazis.

The Nazis didn't put their minorities into uniform, or treat them as second class citizens. They didn't treat them as citizens or even as humans. If the Nazis had gotten their hands on the African-Americans there would be no Martin Luther King, no Jesse Jackson, no Barack Obama.

You deserve to live in a universe ala Man in the High Castle where the Nazis won.

Who was the first Aboriginal prime minister of Australia? They were treated like absolute dirt and it was a law that they could be. This didn't change till long after Hitler died so it wasn't him that caused this, who was it?
And thousands died in British concentration camps, mostly women and children.

Zebra3 · 18-05-2017 08:48PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

What happened those African-Americans? The Americans put them into uniforms. Within a generation the civil rights act was passed, within another generation we have African-American politicians and in the next generation an African-American president.

Don't even begin to compare 'concentration camps' used by Britain in their strict sense - to concentrate people in camps, versus the deliberate extermination camps run by the Nazis.

The Nazis didn't put their minorities into uniform, or treat them as second class citizens. They didn't treat them as citizens or even as humans. If the Nazis had gotten their hands on the African-Americans there would be no Martin Luther King, no Jesse Jackson, no Barack Obama.

You deserve to live in a universe ala Man in the High Castle where the Nazis won. I think that would quickly lead to an appreciation of the civilized qualities of the Anglo-American alliance.

Humanity is fortunate that at a crucial point in our history, we had people of the calibre of Churchill, Roosevelt, Marshall, Eisenhower to hold the line for the nations representing freedom and democracy against tyranny.

So they were civilised nations?

I see you decided not to comment on the British genocide in India. Bit of an inconvenience those millions of skeletons, eh? :rolleyes:

neverever1 · 18-05-2017 08:49PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Whatever it was, it was not murder.

There was no justification, it was cold blooded murder. 25,000 dead!

Zebra3 · 18-05-2017 08:49PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Whatever it was, it was not murder.

War crimes would be more accurate.

odyssey06 · 18-05-2017 08:52PM

neverever1 wrote: »

There was no justification, it was cold blooded murder. 25,000 dead!

It was perhaps needless, but cold blooded murder is herding civilians into gas chambers and exterminating them... or starving them to death as they work in concentration camps.

It's not flying a bomber under attack from anti aircraft fire and other air defences. No all those bombers made it back home that night.

What did the Germans think after the Blitz, that the Brits weren't going to bomb their cities?

odyssey06 · 18-05-2017 08:55PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

So they were civilised nations?

I see you decided not to comment on the British genocide in India. Bit of an inconvenience those millions of skeletons, eh? :rolleyes:

It wasn't genocide. The British did not want Indians to die. The Nazis wanted the Jews to die. Massive difference which seems to escape some people who cannot recognise true evil when it appears and seem to imagine it's possible to defeat countries like Germany and Japan whilst at the same time conducting oneself as a perfect gentleman.

The ultimate people responsible for the Indian famine during World War Two were the nations that started it - Germany and Japan.
The war is why the British attention, shipping and resources that would have prevented famine in India during the war were elsewhere.

After the war, India was free, thanks to the efforts of Gandhi. Had a Jewish Gandhi tried a similar non violent approach against the Nazis he would have ended up in Belsen.
That's the difference between civilisation and tyranny.

And why, for all their faults, the world should be eternally thankful for the sacrifices and efforts of the Anglo-American alliance.

You want to see gencocide in India? Imagine if it had fallen into the hands of Nazi Germany or the Japanese Empire?

The Savage Peace, the Forgotten atrocity of WWII

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