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Oxford student who stabbed boyfriend could avoid jail cos of her future job

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭danganabu


    jeanjolie wrote: »
    Well that's my own interpretation of morality and If I'm ever asked to serve on jury duty, I would do the same thing.

    Somehow I don't think this will be an issue for you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 484 ✭✭jeanjolie


    danganabu wrote: »
    Somehow I don't think this will be an issue for you.

    Does anyone get called to jury duty in Ireland? could you ever voluntarily join?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭riemann


    Equality is required in some areas but there'll always be differences between men and women. Women are less of a threat to people in general, safer drivers etc. These are just facts.

    Ah ok so equality when it suits, otherwise inequality is ok. Thanks for clearing that up with facts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭Ben Gadot


    There was another thread where people were clamouring for prison inmates to be worked half to death rather than sitting on their arses playing PS4 or whatever. The logic was that they should be "productive". These useless layabouts should be learning skills and providing a valuable service through their labour.

    Then we have similar people on here who are clamouring to have an aspiring surgeon thrown in jail and a would-be career as a medical professional in society destroyed.

    Yes, let's kill a career of 40 years as a surgeon in favour of a career in the pen digging ditches. When she gets out she can be a barmaid.

    Yes she knifed her boyfriend in the leg. I'm not condoning that. What are the full facts of the case? Was she mentally unsound at the time? Hormonal? Was he ever abusive to her? etc. etc.
    Digging ditches......I'm not sure what your expectation of prison is but I'm sure this woman would have been looked after.

    Anyway, I understand the judge's logic as I'm not sure what prison would serve here. Based purely on this incident and without knowledge of anything she may have done before, I'd say that she's learned her lesson based on the court case alone. Some people just need the shock of their lives to wake up out of their dangerous behaviour.

    If not already she should be sent to counselling and be done with it.

    That's my opinion based purely on weighing up the value of prison in this situation. I couldn't give a rats ass about whether she's an aspiring surgeon, as if a job should be the difference between sending someone to jail or not. Fcuk that.

    The ironic thing is that her aspiring career is probably fcuked anyway. This will stick to her, which is punishment in itself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    Generally speaking they're not as dangerous as men, so maybe they shouldn't be held to the same standards?

    This is a specific case, not a general case.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,960 ✭✭✭Dr Crayfish


    riemann wrote: »
    Ah ok so equality when it suits, otherwise inequality is ok. Thanks for clearing that up with facts.

    But we can never be be equal as we are inherently different you see? But this is just like my opinion, man.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭danganabu


    jeanjolie wrote: »
    Does anyone get called to jury duty in Ireland? could you ever voluntarily join?

    No you cant volunteer for jury duty, coroners court yes but not criminal cases.

    Even though you are called for jury service, you may not actually serve. Usually more people than necessary are called.

    Before being sworn in either the defence or the prosecution may challenge you. This is simply an objection to a proposed juror. Each side may challenge 7 potential jurors without giving any reason and may challenge any number of jurors if they can "show cause".

    If you are challenged without reason being given, you will leave the jury box. If you are challenged with reason, it is the judge who decides whether or not you will serve.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭riemann


    But we can never be be equal as we are inherently different you see? But this is just like my opinion, man.

    Did you just assume my gender?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,059 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Well for e.g., in the USA only 11% of murders are committed by women.

    That doesn't really have anything to do with this case though does it.

    Anybody who does what she did should be treated like anybody else who did what she did.

    Now, we might find out that the judge has a history of letting 'promising' people off, so it's more an issue of that than of gender, or we might find that her boyfriend was very forgiving and didn't want a sentence, or we might find other reasons for it...but we might also find that the judge is just more lenient with women than men.

    All that said, she hasn't actually been sentenced yet.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 397 ✭✭FactCheck


    Everyone saying "this would never happen if the genders were reversed" should prepare to feel disappointed. You are all hopeless optimists:

    Dublin, 3 years ago:

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/doctor-pays-10k-to-avoid-conviction-for-attacks-on-girlfriend-29946526.html
    A TRAINEE doctor beat up and injured a fellow medical student who he thought was “the woman of his dreams” when they formed a brief relationship, a court has heard.
    Rudrumun Gopal (21), a student at the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland (RCSI), twice attacked his girlfriend of four months, leaving her with bruises and marks “consistent with being punched, kicked, bitten and grabbed”.
    He was left without a criminal record at Dublin District Court, when he admitted two serious assault charges and agreed to make a €10,000 charity donation.

    The accused is now hospital-based in his course. Disciplinary proceedings at the RCSI had been stayed pending the outcome of the court case, but the accused's future medical career was in jeopardy, his defence barrister said. The range of penalties was anything up to and including suspension and expulsion.
    The court heard the Mauritian national, from a “family of high achievers”, had just moved to Ireland, had no experience with women and the victim was his first ever girlfriend.

    Judge Hugh O'Donnell struck the charge out, after hearing Gopal could be disciplined separately by the RCSI, remarking that he did not think the accused should be expelled.
    Gopal, of Amberley House, Lower Gardiner Street, pleaded guilty to two counts of assault causing harm to the woman at Millen House, Mercer Street, on March 29 and April 21, 2012.

    Detective Garda Chris Fitzgerald told the court that the victim was physically assaulted on the two dates by the accused. It was an abusive relationship and ended shortly after the incidents happened.
    A victim impact statement and medical report were handed in to court. The accused had no previous convictions.

    Defence barrister Justin McQuade said the accused and the victim, who was of Indian extraction but from California, had struck up the relationship in January 2012, considering themselves boyfriend and girlfriend.
    Both were “very young” and living far from home, Mr McQuade said.

    “(Gopal) had difficulties and frustrations associated with relationships and did what he did, which is inexcusable,” Mr McQuade said.
    “He was utterly infatuated with this young lady, he thought he had met the woman of his dreams, the sort of young lady he would like to spend the rest of his life with.”

    He became “slightly controlling and his frustrations spilled out”.
    When Gopal “came to his senses”, he realised what he had done was wrong and wrote a letter of apology to the victim.

    The judge ordered €5,000 to be contributed to both the Simon Community and Women's Aid.
    He struck the case out and said the money had to be paid by the end of the week.

    The sad reality is that we do not now and have never taken domestic abuse seriously. Sentencing guidelines are embarrassingly low. People will talk fire and brimstone on an online forum but make endless excuses for people they know in real life.

    We do not, as a society, believe that careers should be ruined and expensive prison sentences undertaken because of a single instance of violence against an intimate partner. We should, but we don't.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭ceegee


    Cant see too many hospital recruiters looking at her application and thinking "Drug abuse and a history of stabbing? Sounds like the perfect person to hand a prescription pad and a scalpel to"


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭please helpThank YOU


    That is why in Ireland jails are full of mostly poor people from council estates The Irish government are splashing out 135,000,000 Million euros on 4 new court houses. at a cost of around 33,000,000 Million each and one of them is in Limerick . where the have two court houses already in Limerick. Instead the should be spend that money on the Homelessness and built homes for people in Limerick . But no the rich and elite in the legal industry the upper class are making fortune from family law courts and criminal law . The would rather mostly poor people in jail than house the homelessness . the whole thing is a scam and a money making `Industry` for the rich elite. the justice system its for the rich. It is like we are gone back in time in Ireland to the famine times and mental hospital Industry of the 1800S . I believe this In my opinion.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    Yes, but in this case it's a valid an accurate argument.


    And how is not the other way round? Domestic violence in which a man or a woman is the victim is a prevalent issue. Why is it OK to use a story like this as to criticise one gender and not the other? That makes no sense.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 864 ✭✭✭neverever1


    riemann wrote: »
    Ah ok so equality when it suits, otherwise inequality is ok. Thanks for clearing that up with facts.

    Take it up with the men who rape, murder etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,436 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    ceegee wrote: »
    a history of stabbing? Sounds like the perfect person to hand a prescription pad and a scalpel to"

    She could maybe call it 'work experience'?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 864 ✭✭✭neverever1


    FactCheck wrote: »
    Everyone saying "this would never happen if the genders were reversed" should prepare to feel disappointed. You are all hopeless optimists:

    Dublin, 3 years ago:

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/doctor-pays-10k-to-avoid-conviction-for-attacks-on-girlfriend-29946526.html



    The sad reality is that we do not now and have never taken domestic abuse seriously. Sentencing guidelines are embarrassingly low. People will talk fire and brimstone on an online forum but make endless excuses for people they know in real life.

    We do not, as a society, believe that careers should be ruined and expensive prison sentences undertaken because of a single instance of violence against an intimate partner. We should, but we don't.

    Nooooooooo!!!!!! It's a conspiracy against the mens damn you. Why won't the women just leave us alone????


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    riemann wrote: »
    Ah ok so equality when it suits, otherwise inequality is ok. Thanks for clearing that up with facts.

    You see equality is about accepting our differences - women are physically weaker than men so they will do a lot less damage with their fists. I was recently subjected to a physical attack by a loved one who was in a psychotic state at the time. He could have killed me but only it was witnessed by two other people who pulled him off me. In all honestly I couldn't have done the same to him and I probably weigh a good bit more than this person.

    Having said that in this case the defendant wielded a knife so strength may not come into it at all.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    neverever1 wrote: »
    Take it up with the men who rape, murder etc.

    Why would we? There's Guards to investigate, a DPP to present to court and a Courthouse to determine Guilt and sentencing.
    neverever1 wrote: »
    Nooooooooo!!!!!! It's a conspiracy against the mens damn you. Why won't the women just leave us alone????

    While most of us are unaware of it, why would we dismiss our ire at the case mentioned in OP, due to attention being drawn to this? Can't we disagree with the outcomes and reasonings of both cases?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 864 ✭✭✭neverever1


    Why would we? There's Guards to investigate, a DPP to present to court and a Courthouse to determine Guilt and sentencing.



    While most of us are unaware of it, why would we dismiss our ire at the case mentioned in OP, due to attention being drawn to this? Can't we disagree with the outcomes and reasonings of both cases?

    He was talking about equality.

    No! I won't have it. It's all a conspiracy against the mens. The courts, the women, the government, all of society is against us!!! Why can't you see this????


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Baron Kurtz



    1.01-1.02 in the video is shows "Gener Disparities" on the transcript/study. Initially I thought that was misspelt, and should have been "Gender". Then I looked up Gener, and it is a word, but relates to a latin translation meaning Son in Law or something.

    Can anyone clarify or explain this?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    I would imagine that is a typo.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    neverever1 wrote: »
    He was talking about equality.

    No! I won't have it. It's all a conspiracy against the mens. The courts, the women, the government, all of society is against us!!! Why can't you see this????

    Indeed the OP opened up under the premise. But most folks responding don't care if it was a woman or a man before the judge who received such a weak outcome to their case.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 945 ✭✭✭red ears


    jeanjolie wrote: »
    She has potential and honestly she didn't actually kill anyone. If she did, then my tone would be quite different but it was only assault and she is not a repeat offender.

    tbh it wouldn't be much different than a man; if you had a young relatively innocent looking guy who was polite, nice, friendly but had assaulted once, then I would do the same thing.

    I hope you are never on a jury, you don't understand your obligations.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,390 ✭✭✭please helpThank YOU


    Lux23 wrote: »
    You see equality is about accepting our differences - women are physically weaker than men so they will do a lot less damage with their fists. I was recently subjected to a physical attack by a loved one who was in a psychotic state at the time. He could have killed me but only it was witnessed by two other people who pulled him off me. In all honestly I couldn't have done the same to him and I probably weigh a good bit more than this person.

    Having said that in this case the defendant wielded a knife so strength may not come into it at all.
    Black widow Catherine Nevin. ,Scissor Sisters ,who dismembered their mothers boyfriend head they are just a sample Women who are not Weaker than Men.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 945 ✭✭✭red ears


    As a further point to this, the apparent abuse happened in a previous relationship, she didn't take it out on that partner, she took it out on a completely innocent man, say she is working in the caring professions and she has to deal with a convicted domestic abuser, whats her reaction going to be.

    She has proven herself to be violent, who is to say she wasn't the violent one in the previous relationship. She just announces in the court she has been abused. The only thing we know for sure is that she herself is violent.

    This is a serious issue with domestic violence. Women who initiate violence and perhaps the male responds in kind. Most of those cases the male would be labeled an abuser the women won't. Its a massively understudied area.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 864 ✭✭✭neverever1


    Indeed the OP opened up under the premise. But most folks responding don't care if it was a woman or a man before the judge who received such a weak outcome to their case.

    Clearly the woman should have got a harsher sentence but the whinging by so many men has to stop. It's a very worrying trend.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    neverever1 wrote: »
    Clearly the woman should have got a harsher sentence but the whinging by so many men has to stop. It's a very worrying trend.

    Oh yeah, they should man up or something. Suck on a few bottles of whiskey and set their farts on fire...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,267 ✭✭✭joeysoap


    A judge here would have awarded her €20,000 for emotional distress.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,794 ✭✭✭raze_them_all_


    neverever1 wrote: »
    Clearly the woman should have got a harsher sentence but the whinging by so many men has to stop. It's a very worrying trend.

    The worrying trend is men whinging about a woman stabbing a guy and getting away with it??

    A girl stabbed her brother through the heart in my home town a few years ago, claimed he was abusing her, no proof, suspended sentence for killing someone


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 864 ✭✭✭neverever1


    Oh yeah, they should man up or something. Suck on a few bottles of whiskey and set their farts on fire...

    Yeah, stop acting like a bunch of little girls!


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