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Why are we hating all the men?

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Comments

  • #182
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,528 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    I have been with men who got pleasure out of them having pleasure and giving me no pleasure. A form of power and control.
    Ive heard from numerous women about them having sex with men, and the man just pumping away until he orgasms and then went asleep. While she got zero pleasure. Its a form of use and abuse, and it is one of the damaging forms of control of women.
    Would you like to be held down , pumped into, while someone bigger and stronger than you orgasms, and then rolls over and goes to sleep?

    How do you stand up to someone who treats you so humiliatingly?

    You hear of so many women who feel used after sex.

    Its not what sex was meant to be like, where both people were meant to get pleasure.


    If I had to listen to this crap from someone when we were having sex, I'd want it to be over as quickly as possible too!


  • #183
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    I have been with men who got pleasure out of them having pleasure and giving me no pleasure. A form of power and control.
    Ive heard from numerous women about them having sex with men, and the man just pumping away until he orgasms and then went asleep. While she got zero pleasure. Its a form of use and abuse, and it is one of the damaging forms of control of women.
    Would you like to be held down , pumped into, while someone bigger and stronger than you orgasms, and then rolls over and goes to sleep?

    How do you stand up to someone who treats you so humiliatingly?

    You hear of so many women who feel used after sex.

    Its not what sex was meant to be like, where both people were meant to get pleasure.

    What your describing is rape.
    Do you accept that mostly heterosexual coitus is not rape?
    That mostly a woman who hasn't orgasmed hasn't been raped?
    But none of this answers the 2 very simple questions I asked.
    Do you not want to answer the questions or is it that you don't lknow the answers?

    Edited to add:
    Don't know why I'm expecting you to answer.


  • #184
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    We've all had bad sex. Simple solution: don't sleep with him again

    Bad sex if you're a woman is rape, apparently, unless (I think) your a lesbian?


  • #185
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,316 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    I have been with men who got pleasure out of them having pleasure and giving me no pleasure. A form of power and control.
    Ive heard from numerous women about them having sex with men, and the man just pumping away until he orgasms and then went asleep. While she got zero pleasure. Its a form of use and abuse, and it is one of the damaging forms of control of women.
    Would you like to be held down , pumped into, while someone bigger and stronger than you orgasms, and then rolls over and goes to sleep?

    How do you stand up to someone who treats you so humiliatingly?
    Eh act like an adult human being and either open your mouth and talk about it and if that doesn't work, y'know.. leave. Like an adult human being. And if one looks back and sees a clear pattern such as this in relationships, that common denominator is you. This seems to cause a brain melt in some, but personal responsibility is part and parcel of being an adult.

    Tumblr "feminism" convincing women that they're perpetual victims while at the same time "strong". You couldn't make it up. Well, they did.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #186
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,257 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    cloudatlas wrote: »
    Yes my true intent is that we should challenge the current institutional power structures together, I keep repeating that. Also I am engaging, I'm posting rigghttt now... My opinion is not unusual, it is normal amongst my female collegues, friends, family, don't need twitter to tell me otherwise.I read through the 'louise o'neill' thread that's why I knew this one would be a carbon copy of that thread and it has been, no divergent discussion.

    No actually I haven't heard of these so called 'white night' feminist men who are just trying to ingratiate themselves with women but it sounds like that is what you want to be the case.

    If you have a core belief system i.e we should all be equal then nobody would deter you from that, you shouldn't seek permission from someone to believe something you simply see the imbalance in society and acknowledge it. Stating that we better not strive for equality because women will somehow gain supremacy is funny, I severely doubt that, that's not the society I've been born into. Maybe in a sci-fi novel. It's akin to a Daily Mail type argument.

    Well then don't engage with a woman who calls you a 'potential rapist'.

    What "institutional" power structures for you want to overthrow? Capitalism? Classism? Regionalism?

    Or just the minor differences between men and women in aggregate?


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  • #187
    cloudatlas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,711 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    pjohnson wrote: »
    no males?

    yes it extends to males in my life as well my brother especially now since he has a daughter.


  • #188
    cloudatlas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,711 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    Calhoun wrote: »
    I dont know what you mean by your opinion being shared amongst your female colleagues, i am not sure what that is relevant to. The reason i feel it hasnt changed much is because its discussing similar subject matter i dont read through the LON thread as its so large its hard to keep up.

    I think most on this forum would know the white knight hero im speaking about but lets move on. Not sure why you only picked up on that though am i hitting close to home?

    I am not saying that we better not strive for equality because woman will gain supremacy, that is what the hardline feminist themselves are saying. You must live in a nice little bubble where identity politics dont exist or you choose to ignore.

    When you have the like of LON and the many other media bloggers going on about the rape culture in Ireland you are going to get people just disengaging on mass with the Feminist agenda no matter how moderate.

    you intimated that my way of thought was unique that's why I brought up colleagues friends.

    Sorry still never heard of the white knight phenomenon. Is there a factual article on this in a broadsheet newspaper you can refer me to.

    I voted for marriage equality, if a bunch of gays were abusive mean etc., on social media or to my face it wouldn't make any difference to my vote because I know other gay people who are sound and it was my core belief that they should be afforded the same rights as the rest of us, I'm not such a precious flower that someone on social media would put me off.

    I do live in a bubble I genuinely haven't heard of a political group that is striving for female supremacy. I think AH is a bubble compared with other forums on here to be honest with you.


  • #189
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    I would just like to say to women on here: I have been sexually assaulted three times, and it was the greatest pain of my life.

    Its okay to like and respect men, and still set boundaries so that we are not abused by men.

    More needs to be done. More needs to be reached. And we can do it.


  • #190
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,528 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    cloudatlas wrote: »
    yes it extends to males in my life as well my brother especially now since he has a daughter.


    Maybe it's the way you're putting it, but it extends to men in your life, I get that, but now it extends more to your brother... because he has a daughter...

    Reading that suggests to me that it's not actually equality or equity of opportunity you actually care about at all, but rather you only care about those people whom you see something of yourself in, such as assuming your niece will want the same life for herself as you would want for her.

    It's like crying "narcissist!" in a hall of mirrors!! :pac:


  • #191
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,061 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    I would just like to say to women on here: I have been sexually assaulted three times, and it was the greatest pain of my life.

    Its okay to like and respect men, and still set boundaries so that we are not abused by men.

    More needs to be done. More needs to be reached. And we can do it.

    Yeah but bad sex is what you call abuse and blame others for trivialising rape. Not orgasming does not equal rape.


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  • #192
    whoopsadoodles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,058 ✭✭✭whoopsadoodles


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    I would just like to say to women on here: I have been sexually assaulted three times, and it was the greatest pain of my life.

    Its okay to like and respect men, and still set boundaries so that we are not abused by men.

    More needs to be done. More needs to be reached. And we can do it.

    Your posts never respect men.

    Your posts would be one of the examples that the OP could use to push her idea.


  • #193
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,061 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    cloudatlas wrote: »
    yes it extends to males in my life as well my brother especially now since he has a daughter.

    But not before he had a daughter? What i he had, shock horror a SON!


  • #194
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,310 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    cloudatlas wrote: »
    We need to think about citizenship as including everyone. Feminism is about women asking that power structures that we are ALL confined by are changed. Feminism is beneficial to men as well as it's about women having more visibility, more of a say, which boost fairness, wellbeing and is better for us as a society to be on an even keel, to say that feminism is about man hating is reductive and certainly some of the posts on this thread have been frivolous which takes away from the real problems here. We need to make society more inclusive and feminism helps in that aim and casts light on other areas where inclusiveness in not in effect also.
    It's not and nor should it be. The clue is in the name. It has always been a movement for women, and rightly so. You say that the "power structures that we are ALL confined by" should be changed. What exactly are you referring to here and how do you suggest that it be changed?
    cloudatlas wrote: »
    I feel sometimes if a woman shouts 'I am a victim of this' men clam up and say 'i am a victim' of your generalised misandrism, not all men' but that is not the issue, the issue is much much bigger it's about social roles, values, institutional power, gender pay gaps. Don't fall into the trap of being reductive!
    The "gender pay gap" is a myth. According to the NWCI, women with no children out earn men with no children by 17% up to the age of 30. After that, the age when most women will start a family and be out of the workplace, causes a huge bulk of the difference. If a man was being paid more than a woman for doing the exact same job then that is against the law. Why are we not seeing lawsuits galore? The professions we choose have an impact on our salary. For example, in the US, Asian Americans earn more than European Americans, but we don't say that there is a pay gap between the two. The average Asian American will have a profession that pays more.

    That said, I do think a lot more can be done for women (and men) returning to work after taking time out to raise children.
    cloudatlas wrote: »
    Example: Child care is still mainly the role of the female in society, the woman will work part time while men continue on with their career. The role of women in child birth is already reflected in maternity leave but after that there is no reason why child care should not be shared or the woman given the choice to continue on her path but still the majority of people you see at the school gate are women. I don't know about the Dail but in the house of commons around 75% percent of men in parliament have children, less than 50% of women in the house of commons have children. The conclusion is that it's harder for women to have children and be in a high powered job, women have to have a supportive or rich partner for them to be able to have both whereas it is easier for men to have both. This paradigm operates in other industries as well.
    How do you know that those women at the school gate are not there simply because they want to be there for their child? Do we know for certain that the women in parliament without children want them? Remember, the creche in the House of Commons (costing £725,000) is not being filled to capacity. The options are there for MPs to avail of top quality child care facilities. Just like the mums who wait for their children at the school gates because they want to be there, maybe the women without children in the House of Commons don't want them. Both perfectly valid decisions.
    cloudatlas wrote: »
    As another poster said men are exposed to men on men violence but women are exposed more to men on women violence. We need to ask why, where is the failure? I feel sick opening the newspaper sometimes reading the violent acts perpetrated against women. How, why is society failing these young men?
    I think those men have failed themselves tbh. You can't pin the blame on society for everything. Violent scumbags act like violent scumbags. Jail them for a hell of a lot longer.
    cloudatlas wrote: »
    The media still portrays women as commodities and something that men deserve.
    Where in the media? Who is the target audience? Do the women who appear as these commodities not have agency? These days, the likes of the Kardashians et al. seem to be 100% in charge of their own image and self-promotion. Besides, you could say that pretty much everything nowadays is treated as a commodity.
    cloudatlas wrote: »
    Language also plays a part, if a man shys away from something or isn't good at a sport he has either done it 'like a girl' or he is 'a pussy'. Women are referred to as farm animals; Cows, Chickens, Bitches etc., For a while on after hours posters were allowed to reply to posts with 'blast her with piss'.
    Is any of the above gender specific? Both seem to dish it out. I think once people move past a certain point in their lives and start to mature, they don't engage in any of the above.


  • #195
    infogiver
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,505 ✭✭✭infogiver


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    I would just like to say to women on here: I have been sexually assaulted three times, and it was the greatest pain of my life.

    Its okay to like and respect men, and still set boundaries so that we are not abused by men.

    More needs to be done. More needs to be reached. And we can do it.

    You either can't or won't engage in any debate here on boards.
    Why?


  • #196
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    I have been with men who got pleasure out of them having pleasure and giving me no pleasure. A form of power and control.

    How could they deliberately give you no pleasure? You not getting pleasure is down to you.
    Ive heard from numerous women about them having sex with men, and the man just pumping away until he orgasms..

    And if you spoke with men about their sexual experiences they would tell you about lots of women that got on top of a guy, came, and rolled off too... you seem to think only women can be used physically.
    ...and then went asleep. While she got zero pleasure. Its a form of use and abuse, and it is one of the damaging forms of control of women.

    One minute you cite it as an example of men not being concerned enough to give pleasure, showing no interest in how the woman is feeling.... then you label it as them wanting to control the woman... control her while they are asleep?
    Would you like to be held down , pumped into, while someone bigger and stronger than you orgasms...

    For LOTS of women that's precisely what they want and especially if the man is a big sexy bastards :P
    and then rolls over and goes to sleep?

    How do you stand up to someone who treats you so humiliatingly?

    Again, IF those guys are humiliating you, or any other women (and I don't accept that what you cite is behavior which is inherently humiliating.. or at least intended to be so) well then, as Lexie said, just don't date them again... unless you like being humiliated.
    You hear of so many women who feel used after sex.

    Trust me, lots of guys feel used also. I have had women treat me like a piece of crap because I couldn't get it up on a few occasions... many men that have a couple of decades of sexual encounters with women will have equally humiliating experiences. Have heard of guys who women have laughed at when they seen the size of their penis (not me, honest). Women don't have the monopoly of being treated like a piece of meat you know.


  • #197
    cloudatlas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,711 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    One eyed Jack wrote: »
    Maybe it's the way you're putting it, but it extends to men in your life, I get that, but now it extends more to your brother... because he has a daughter...

    Reading that suggests to me that it's not actually equality or equity of opportunity you actually care about at all, but rather you only care about those people whom you see something of yourself in, such as assuming your niece will want the same life for herself as you would want for her.

    It's like crying "narcissist!" in a hall of mirrors!! :pac:

    It is just the way I'm putting it, off the top of my head. Where did I say I would force my niece to hold my belief systems, don't recall that. :pac:


  • #198
    Demforeigners
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭Demforeigners


    whoopsadoodles wrote: »
    Your posts never respect men.

    Your posts would be one of the examples that the OP could use to push her idea.

    You keep taking subtle digs at the op in your posts while pretending to respect the subject matter. It's not pushing an idea, they are very real issues that men face. Plenty of other topics in the forum to post in if you don't like this one.


  • #199
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,567 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    I would just like to say to women on here: I have been sexually assaulted three times, and it was the greatest pain of my life.

    Its okay to like and respect men, and still set boundaries so that we are not abused by men.

    More needs to be done. More needs to be reached. And we can do it.

    I suppose the fundamental disagreement is that you blame half the human race for what happened to you. The other posters are saying you should blame the individuals who assaulted you.


  • #200
    whoopsadoodles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,058 ✭✭✭whoopsadoodles


    Demforeigners wrote: »
    You keep taking subtle digs at the op in your posts while pretending to respect the subject matter. It's not pushing an idea, they are very real issues that men face. Plenty of other topics in the forum to post in if you don't like this one.

    That wasn't a dig at the OP. It was backing her up.


  • #201
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    I would just like to say to women on here: I have been sexually assaulted three times, and it was the greatest pain of my life.

    Its okay to like and respect men, and still set boundaries so that we are not abused by men.

    More needs to be done. More needs to be reached. And we can do it.
    That must have been awful. I was raped when I was 17 and assaulted once in work by a man grabbing my wrist as I tried leave a treatment room where he was having a massage and expecting more than he was getting and had himself completely exposed.

    That said, some of the closest people to me and those I relied most on when I was emotionally vulnerable were male. I've had strange males walk me home after a night out to make sure I got home ok, men I'd never met before or since. Random men stopping to help me change a flat wheel, men on here who helped mecwith advice on DIY (step by step never once making me feel stupid), men sharing their chips in supermacs on a Saturday night. 2 horrible assholes won't make up my mind on an entire gender. Most guys I've met are pretty sound.


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  • #202
    cloudatlas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,711 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    pjohnson wrote: »
    But not before he had a daughter? What i he had, shock horror a SON!

    Putting words in my mouth, he is male he is relating more to a female perspective now he has a daughter, actually they are thinking of fostering, it would be good if it was a wee boy. you are clutching at straws and I love how everything else in the post is ignored.


  • #203
    Demforeigners
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭Demforeigners


    whoopsadoodles wrote: »
    That wasn't a dig at the OP. It was backing her up.

    I was going off your first few posts in the thread and that post. So forgive me for misunderstanding.


  • #204
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,316 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    whoopsadoodles wrote: »
    Your posts never respect men.
    For me what's as bad is that it doesn't respect women as grown autonomous adults. Women are painted as victims, quasi children with no agency(QV the no orgasm = abuse) and men are always to blame. Well I suppose that is the constant mantra of modern mainstream interwebs and beyond [insert wave here] "feminism". It's damaged thinking TBH it disgusts me.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #205
    midlandsmissus
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,838 ✭✭✭midlandsmissus


    Wibbs wrote: »
    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    I have been with men who got pleasure out of them having pleasure and giving me no pleasure. A form of power and control.
    Ive heard from numerous women about them having sex with men, and the man just pumping away until he orgasms and then went asleep. While she got zero pleasure. Its a form of use and abuse, and it is one of the damaging forms of control of women.
    Would you like to be held down , pumped into, while someone bigger and stronger than you orgasms, and then rolls over and goes to sleep?

    How do you stand up to someone who treats you so humiliatingly?
    Eh act like an adult human being and either open your mouth and talk about it and if that doesn't work, y'know.. leave. Like an adult human being. And if one looks back and sees a clear pattern such as this in relationships, that common denominator is you. This seems to cause a brain melt in some, but personal responsibility is part and parcel of being an adult.

    Tumblr "feminism" convincing women that they're perpetual victims while at the same time "strong". You couldn't make it up. Well, they did.
    There was one time that I said, 'I would like you to do this for me in return' and he said he was too tired.

    Selfish people are selfish.

    So what do you do, when you do voice what you want, and they still only do what feels good for them only.


  • #206
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,039 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    midlandsmissus wrote: »

    Its okay to like and respect men, and still set boundaries so that we are not abused by men.

    .

    You speak of men as if we are all wild animals that need to be tamed


  • #207
    koumi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 646 ✭✭✭koumi


    I think the most important thing to remember is that God hates everyone equally.


  • #208
    whoopsadoodles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,058 ✭✭✭whoopsadoodles


    Demforeigners wrote: »
    I was going off your first few posts in the thread and that post. So forgive me for misunderstanding.

    I stand by my first few posts in the thread. Absolutely none of which were a dig at the OP. Though I know she took them as such which is why I haven't posted since until now.

    I have real world experience of issues men face. I am currently helping someone very close to me fight for fathers' rights and deal with the sh*t that system designed for women throw at him. It breaks my fcuking heart on a daily basis.

    I also watched someone who I adore have his life close to destroyed by false claims by a system that moves to believe women first.

    I also know women who have had been raped, and who have been beaten to a pulp by men. I know a woman who was sexually abused by her brothers and father for being a lesbian.

    I still think that that majority of people in real life just get along absolutely fine and most women do not hate men and most men do not hate women. That is still my view, despite all the things those I love have been through.


  • #209
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    There was one time that I said, 'I would like you to do this for me in return' and he said he was too tired.

    Selfish people are selfish.

    So what do you do, when you do voice what you want, and they still only do what feels good for them only.

    You chose to date him. You. Unless he was holding you captive, you made the decision to stay in a relationship with a selfish lover. We've all been in the position where we've genuinely not been interested in having sex or said no when the other initiated it but if they're not into it then that's just too bad. No means no, even when we really want it not to mean no.

    If that happened constantly and you stayed with them, then hate to point out of the obvious but you chose to do that


  • #210
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    So what do you do, when you do voice what you want, and they still only do what feels good for them only.

    Find someone else.. or have them assassinated... anything beats blaming all men because of the actions of a few.

    Lots of women refuse (as is their right of course) to do things which guys ask of them.


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  • #211
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,316 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    midlandsmissus wrote: »
    There was one time that I said, 'I would like you to do this for me in return' and he said he was too tired.
    One time. Yeah, that'll do it. Not. Or did you expect him and the other men to be mind readers? And no doubt you stayed around getting more frustrated.
    Selfish people are selfish.
    Real simple solution for you. Don't go out with selfish men and if you end up with one, leave.
    So what do you do, when you do voice what you want, and they still only do what feels good for them only.
    Leave.

    Like I said if you leave behind a string of failed and unsatisfactory relationships where "they were all alike" the common denominator is you.

    Just pointing out the patently obvious.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



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