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The 8th amendment(Mod warning in op)

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Comments

  • #1352
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Nobody mentioned segregation because the women are nasty. What a childish comeback. I just think it's odd that one wing might be dedicated to bringing babies into the world and the other would be dedicated to ending their lives. For me, oddness does come into it.

    So the only reason you don't think it should happen is because it's odd? Okay then. Personally I think any medical procedures should be done in locations chosen because they are clinically appropriate, not because of delicate sensibilities. Whatever about early abortion, in advanced pregnancy the only logical place to carry out an abortion is a maternity hospital in cases where a woman has to go through induction and labour. Where else would we do them?


  • #1353
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    are they? the main mantra from the pro-choice lobby is about choice.
    I must have been unfortunate in the exposure to mantras that I have experienced because rape and FFA is pretty much all I have heard from the pro choice side.


  • #1354
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Quote: eviltwin

    Why shouldn't it be free? All other maternity care is free, health care in general isn't costed on the basis of bad choices which is what you are getting at.......

    Unless an abortion is medically necessary, then killing babies while they are developing in the womb has nothing to do with "health" and so maybe best not to refer to it as health care... if accuracy is at all important


    Abortion is a legal medical practice

    (in non-backward countries before anyone goes FullRetard)

    Legal medical practices be healthcare


  • #1355
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    eviltwin wrote: »
    So the only reason you don't think it should happen is because it's odd? Okay then. Personally I think any medical procedures should be done in locations chosen because they are clinically appropriate, not because of delicate sensibilities. Whatever about early abortion, in advanced pregnancy the only logical place to carry out an abortion is a maternity hospital in cases where a woman has to go through induction and labour. Where else would we do them?



    I am quite happy with my opinion on the matter.


  • #1356
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Abortion is a legal medical practice

    (in non-backward countries before anyone goes FullRetard)

    Legal medical practices be healthcare



    I love how nobody needs to resort to childish name calling when they meet those with a different value system.


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  • #1357
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.


    er......what???


  • #1358
    Consonata
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭Consonata


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    I love how nobody needs to resort to childish name calling when they meet those with a different value system.

    Is this what you do when your argument doesn't really hold much water?


  • #1359
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    I am quite happy with my opinion on the matter.

    And you are entitled to. It doesn't mean it's not the right place to do those procedures. They happen in maternity hospitals in countries where abortion is legal. Its where the expertise is. Nothing odd about it.


  • #1360
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Consonata wrote: »
    Because might implies that the probability is low. We're talking 1 in 5 will live at all, and those who live will likely have major on going issues that they will have to deal with.

    And "will" implies that it is a certainty. If parents to a baby born at 23 weeks want to care for and nurture their child and love it "despite" it's disabilities - who are you to determine that that childs life is not worthy of love?


  • #1361
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    eviltwin wrote: »
    And you are entitled to. It doesn't mean it's not the right place to do those procedures. They happen in maternity hospitals in countries where abortion is legal. Its where the expertise is. Nothing odd about it.



    I agree. In a similar vein, just because you think it is right doesn't mean it is either.

    They also happen in abortion clinics which in my opinion is the best place for them.


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  • #1362
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Consonata wrote: »
    Is this what you do when your argument doesn't really hold much water?
    No. As you can see, I have not resorted to name calling.


  • #1363
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    I love how nobody needs to resort to childish name calling when they meet those with a different value system.

    Name calling ? no no, some may be in danger of going full retard as they are playing along.






  • #1364
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    They also happen in abortion clinics which in my opinion is the best place for them.

    In all cases? Why?

    Why wouldn't a woman having a late abortion be better off in the maternity hospital with her consultant and the best facilities?,


  • #1365
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    eviltwin wrote: »
    In all cases? Why?

    Why wouldn't a woman having a late abortion be better off in the maternity hospital with her consultant and the best facilities?,

    Why would a maternity hospital have better facilities than a dedicated clinic?


  • #1366
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    ....


    They also happen in abortion clinics which in my opinion is the best place for them.

    No, the best place to perform terminations is in a maternity hospital that is attached to an "ordinary" hospital

    Same reason best place for a maternity hospital is attached to an "ordinary" hospital


  • #1367
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    gctest50 wrote: »
    No, the best place to perform terminations is in a maternity hospital that is attached to an "ordinary" hospital

    Same reason best place for a maternity hospital is attached to an "ordinary" hospital

    why?


  • #1368
    gctest50
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭gctest50


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    why?

    Parking spaces


  • #1369
    Murrisk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 889 ✭✭✭Murrisk


    AnGaelach wrote: »
    I wouldn't like it, but I dislike being made to pay for something I disagree with even more.

    By paying into general taxation, you probably already pay for things you don't agree with.


  • #1370
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Why would a maternity hospital have better facilities than a dedicated clinic?

    They have experienced staff, a vast network of support staff, operating rooms, medical stores. They can generally cover any eventuality. A clinic is just a clinic.

    Why should a woman who has already received care from a maternity hospital be farmed out to a clinic when the hospital can meet her needs?


  • #1371
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Parking spaces

    Drive through option?


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  • #1372
    AnGaelach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭AnGaelach


    Murrisk wrote: »
    By paying into general taxation, you probably already pay for things you don't agree with.

    None of which include killing something, though. I can dislike how our foreign aid budget is used or I can dislike how SPVs are used by large companies to avoid tax in Ireland - but neither of those things necessitate the killing of something. Comparing them is apples and oranges.


  • #1373
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    volchitsa wrote: »
    ..the claim that abortion is much like killing a person is false.

    Whether that's a good thing or not is pretty much irrelevant - the point is that there's a massive inconsistency at the center of the prolife view that blows a hole in their own claim to believe what they say they believe. Since nobody (including you apparently) is arguing that we should imprison a woman for having an abortion, that shows that it's not nearly as good a comparison as the usual pro life argument would claim.

    Basically they don't believe their own argument.

    I'm surprised you would make the above arguments in reply to my posts as you know that I used the Sarah Catt case on many threads as an example of the hypocrisy of the prochoice, given that almost none of them said that she should have a right to do what she did. So why not? They all believe in body autonomy, don't they, so where were they when she was being sentenced?

    If your contention that abortion being "much like killing a person" is false, then why was Natalie Towers jailed the year before last:
    Sobbing Shildon mother jailed for DIY poison abortion

    A YOUNG mother sobbed and threw herself to the ground as she was sentenced to more than two years in prison for carrying out a DIY abortion using poison bought online.

    Natalie Towers, 24, searched the internet for the poisonous drug which caused her to miscarry the fully formed baby boy when she was between 32 and 34 weeks pregnant.

    Towers, of Adamson Street, Shildon pleaded guilty to the offence at Newcastle Crown Court today (December 17) where, from behind the dock, she sobbed and threw herself to the ground as Mr Justice Jay sent her to custody.

    Sarah Mallett, prosecuting, said Towers was living with her boyfriend Sean Clark in Bishop Auckland when she purchased the poison last year.

    The court heard on November 4 she was found bleeding in the bathroom after a call was made for an ambulance during which she whispered she was having a miscarriage.

    When paramedics arrived, Towers told them she was suffering from stomach pain. She was described her as ‘calm and relaxed’.

    Moments later a female paramedic was said to have been ‘very shocked’ to discover a warm, ‘small but fully formed’ baby head first in the toilet – to which Towers said: “It’s dead, I know it’s dead.”

    She told paramedics she did not know she was pregnant, the court heard.

    Strenuous efforts were made to resuscitate the baby, named Luke Clark. He was taken to hospital, but did not survive.

    Ms Mallett said the baby was likely to have been stillborn and died, according to a post-mortem, of oxygen deprivation but added: “At that gestation the baby would be expected to survive with proper treatment.”

    Although Towers originally denied knowledge of her pregnancy, she later admitted taking the tablets because she thought she may be pregnant.

    Her computer was seized from the flat and her browsing history revealed searches for abortion pills, how police accessed internet history and how to delete it.

    The court also heard she had concealed a previous pregnancy when she gave birth prematurely.

    Dan Cordey, for Towers, said: “She is remorseful and greatly regrets her actions. That remorse and regret is something that will live with her for the rest of her life.

    "In her own words, she said 'When I look back I think it's awful, I hate myself, I hate it and I know it's my fault'."

    Mr Cordey told Mr Justice Jay that Towers never had a pregnancy test and although she realised she must have been pregnant, she was not sure how far along.

    The court heard she had suffered from depression and anxiety in the past and had a tendency to ‘act impulsively and without thinking’.

    Mr Justice Jay said: “I’m satisfied the baby was already dead when he was delivered or placed in the lavatory.

    “I’m satisfied you must have known you were pregnant. The case has nothing to do with the morality of terminating the lives of unborn foetuses.

    “It was open to you to seek a termination on the NHS before 24 weeks gestation.

    “At 24 weeks gestation the foetus has a fair chance of survival if born prematurely.

    “Your child would have had a good chance. It had no chance after you administered this drug.

    “The law does not accept the use of poison. The aggravating factor is that you took time to plan and prepare for it in the form of internet searches."

    Mr Justice Jay added: “These cases need to be dealt with with an appropriate amount of compassion and humanity.”

    After imposing the two-year and six month jail sentence for administering a poison with intent to procure a miscarriage he said: “The reason I can’t (suspend the sentence) is because this offence is too serious.”


  • #1374
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    eviltwin wrote: »
    They have experienced staff, a vast network of support staff, operating rooms, medical stores. They can generally cover any eventuality. A clinic is just a clinic.

    Why should a woman who has already received care from a maternity hospital be farmed out to a clinic when the hospital can meet her needs?


    As do clinics.


  • #1375
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    I'm surprised you would make the above arguments in reply to my posts as you know that I used the Sarah Catt case on many threads as an example of the hypocrisy of the prochoice, given that almost none of them said that she should have a right to do what she did. So why not? They all believe in body autonomy, don't they, so where were they when she was being sentenced?

    If your contention that abortion being "much like killing a person" is false, then why was Natalie Towers jailed the year before last:

    That's such a sad story.


  • #1376
    thee glitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭thee glitz


    eviltwin wrote: »
    They have experienced staff, a vast network of support staff, operating rooms, medical stores. They can generally cover any eventuality. A clinic is just a clinic.

    Why should a woman who has already received care from a maternity hospital be farmed out to a clinic when the hospital can meet her needs?

    Maybe the best facilities and consultants should be reserved for women actually having babies.


  • #1377
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    As do clinics.

    But we don't have abortion clinics :confused:

    We do have hospitals.

    Is your argument here about what's clinically best or is it more to do with your own personal views on the subject?


  • #1378
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    thee glitz wrote: »
    Maybe the best facilities and consultants should be reserved for women actually having babies.

    What should those seeking abortion get then?


  • #1379
    Consonata
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,399 ✭✭✭Consonata


    eviltwin wrote: »
    What should those seeking abortion get then?

    The septic tank around the back :pac:


  • #1380
    thee glitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,294 ✭✭✭thee glitz


    eviltwin wrote: »
    What should those seeking abortion get then?

    Those requiring abortions probably need, and on that basis get, the best available. Not so concerned about others.


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  • #1381
    Murrisk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 889 ✭✭✭Murrisk


    AnGaelach wrote: »
    None of which include killing something, though. I can dislike how our foreign aid budget is used or I can dislike how SPVs are used by large companies to avoid tax in Ireland - but neither of those things necessitate the killing of something. Comparing them is apples and oranges.

    You said you dislike methadone clinics. You are paying for that.


This discussion has been closed.
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