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Minister to crack down on 'wild west' illegal raffles and lotteries at sports clubs

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 211 ✭✭Johnny D. Mudd


    I help run my local GAA club lotto raffle (I won't tell you which club as I'd rather not disseminate that kind of location-yielding to you crafty people) and firstly, I can tell you all that everything that is done is all above board. If anyone wins the main prize, it's because their numbers were correctly picked by a random number generating machine. Nothing can be fixed so that a specific person wins the lot.

    Secondly, this lotto is run because without adequate Government grants and the like, we need alternative methods of fundraising in order to pay for sports equipment, coaches, repairs and all sorts of other expenses that are required of a GAA club. Without this raffle and many others like it, this club, and I'd venture to guess many others like it around the country, would have no adequate means of asic upkeep and as time passes would surely lead to closure.

    The last point I would like to make is that GAA clubs around the country not only build a sense of community spirit but also offer a place for young people to go where they will be welcomed and looked after. It also offers an opportunity for these kids to get into irish sports such as football, hurling and camogie where they would at least get a chance of a healthier lifestyle and something for them to focus on. If there wasn't proper investment in clubs and they weren't able to pay the necessary expenses leading to foreclosure, these great opportunities would disappear.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Secondly, this lotto is run because without adequate Government grants and the like, we need alternative methods of fundraising in order to pay for sports equipment, coaches, repairs and all sorts of other expenses that are required of a GAA club. Without this raffle and many others like it, this club, and I'd venture to guess many others like it around the country, would have no adequate means of asic upkeep and as time passes would surely lead to closure.
    The worst thing is the GAA make millions that just seems to disappear, the players need to support themselves, the clubs need to support themselves, and all the money that is made seems to be soaked up by the top brass.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 211 ✭✭Johnny D. Mudd


    ScumLord wrote: »
    The worst thing is the GAA make millions that just seems to disappear, the players need to support themselves, the clubs need to support themselves, and all the money that is made seems to be soaked up by the top brass.

    Absolutely. I know my club and I daresay a good few others necessitate community support to get by without receiving the type of investment that they should be. I'm not saying that every club should get thousands of euros in grants each month but at least enough for basic upkeep every few months would be enough. Of course we're used to every facet of irish authorities soaking up a huge chunk of income while doling out meagre finances to those who absolutely need it. The GAA, the FAI, even governence itself. The list goes on and on really.


  • Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    In that Independent article in the OP, it's reported that Dave Stanton is the man "tasked with moving forward legislation covering gambling", legislation which he intends to introduce "by the end of the year". Looking into it a bit further on Google, this seems to be a move to implement the Gambling Control Bill which was first published in 2013, but has been delayed and kicked about since. Something new is badly needed as the courts currently require the Gaming and Lottery Act 1956 to refer to for relevant cases which come before them.

    Regulation in the gambling industry is a positive IMO - I fancy a casual bet from time to time, I know there are plenty of responsible gamblers who do it as a hobby and bet only what they can afford to lose, I know that there are people out there who are good at it and make a living from it. However, I also know of houses lost, families broken, lives shattered and that gambling addiction is a genuine, large problem in society.

    Personal responsibility comes into any addiction, absolutely. However, in an age where betting advertising is all over the place (TV, internet, famous actors/personalities endorsing betting companies, logos on football jerseys etc) and the ease of which one can put on a bet without leaving their house, I'd argue that the willpower required to exercise that personal responsibility has increased greatly. Some regulatory measures which are more recent than 60 years old, both progressive and smart, are required.

    Maybe the forthcoming version of the Bill will address all of that, but Stanton being so outspoken about and focused on such a small thing as local raffles and lotteries as a primary issue, essentially non-profit fundraisers, isn't promising.

    There is mention in the article of a broader, preventative, smart move to ban U18s from gambling, but then there's this to make up for the tax that the government will lose from the U18's betting with tax-paying businesses...
    In an interview with the Irish Independent, Mr Stanton said he was also committed to introducing a "social fund levy" on betting companies, with the cash generated being ringfenced for the treatment of gambling addicts.
    Ah right, another tax so, another levy, social something something, for the treatment of addicts of course.

    From the original draft of the Bill in 2013 (90 pages of which can be read here, if anyone cares to read it all)

    The powers, duties and functions of the Minister as
    set out in [this Act] are for the purpose of ensuring:

    (i)
    fairness in the conduct of gambling,
    (ii)
    the protection of vulnerable persons, including children, from risks to their well being arising from gambling,
    (iii)
    the avoidance of circumstances where gambling could, inadvertently or otherwise, facilitate or enable criminal or illegal activity
    (iv)
    consumer choice and protection
    Okay, point (iii) is where this local raffle and lotto measure will fall under I guess with the likes of tax evasion, intentional or otherise, but it just seems like such small potatoes. A senator raised concerns to Dave Stanton in the Seanad last Summer of slightly larger potatoes - He spoke of anecdotal reports of members of organised crime, mainly pimps, using betting firms as a regular means to launder their illegal takings. Stanton merely said at the time that this was an issue, and referred to this forthcoming Bill which would address it.

    Now almost a year later, it seems that this required regulation for the gambling industry is nigh. Rather than introducing it to the press and starting off the public discourse with something more ambitious, targeting more organised, deliberate and sinister areas like the one raised in the above paragraph, it seems we're supposed to get the pitchforks out for the hang sandwhich makers who try to get a clubhouse built or some floodlights installed for their local sporting organisation.

    Don't get me wrong - I've no great affection for the GAA as a big business organisation, or actively take part in their sports as an adult, but lottos and raffles are the bread and butter of small, forgotten clubs around the country. Many of these clubs around the country are the lifeblood of a community, more so in the extra-rural parts of Ireland of which there are quite a few. They are also dependent on physical and financial voluntary assistance from members of the community. Many offer their support by putting a few quid towards the club lotto, it's not like they are chomping at the bit and betting large sums on potential winnings of about €5k.

    I'm not saying that illegal activity is okay once it's only a little bit of illegal activity and once the perpetrators are "pillars of the community", just that this is such a bizarre place to start from in such a huge industry in need of regulation.

    They want to protect the kids as part of the primary functions of this new Bill of course, but strangling the kids local sporting organisations with bureaucratic red tape which will cost money to service and adhere to will only serve to put the clubs which are already struggling into extinction.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    so you complain about more regulation while at the same time showing exactly why regulation is needed.


    It is about personal choices. Only buy raffle tickets off organisations/people that you trust.


    Although individuals should be paying tax on such things.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,365 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    It is about personal choices. Only buy raffle tickets off organisations/people that you trust.


    Although individuals should be paying tax on such things.

    So crooked raffles should be just left to it?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    I hope any gambling legislation stops connections (owners, trainers) running more than one horse in a race.
    This is a fraud on the betting public.
    All horses are supposed to be ridden to obtain the best possible place but are often used either to (1) act as pacemaker, or (2) to give them and educational run, or (3) to get them ready for another race.

    Fwiw a family member was at a draw run by a national wholesale organisation years ago. When the first ticket was drawn it was put aside as the winner was not a regular customer. There were a few more drawn until they found a ticket from a good customer.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    stankratz wrote: »
    Regulation in the gambling industry is a positive IMO
    It certainly is. When ever I go to a friends house and they stick on Sky it's disgusting how many ads there are for gambling companies, I'm also shocked by the celebrities willing to promote these companies. That kind of gambling and the advertising of it needs to be seriously controlled.

    But local lottos aren't gambling. Most people don't go out of their way to do it or really expect to win anything, even if they do win something it's usually not that much money so they aren't going to be spending all their money trying to win it.

    To lump local lottos in with the big players in gambling is ridiculous. It's a misdirection and excuse to go lenient on those bigger gambling companies that are little better than street corner drug dealers taking advantage of peoples addictions.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,439 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    Have you any shady stories about dodgy draws or competitions?

    Spot the ball panels - few of the lads on my football teams had seamstress levels of skill at unsewing them to see the winner, claiming that slot with an illegible squiggle and then perfectly sewing it back. Punters were drawing dead.

    Master criminals no less on the loose.How much would they win for this dastardly deed ?

    Next year they'll be robbing Trocaire
    boxes .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,902 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    ScumLord wrote: »
    It certainly is. When ever I go to a friends house and they stick on Sky it's disgusting how many ads there are for gambling companies, I'm also shocked by the celebrities willing to promote these companies. That kind of gambling and the advertising of it needs to be seriously controlled.

    But local lottos aren't gambling. Most people don't go out of their way to do it or really expect to win anything, even if they do win something it's usually not that much money so they aren't going to be spending all their money trying to win it.

    To lump local lottos in with the big players in gambling is ridiculous. It's a misdirection and excuse to go lenient on those bigger gambling companies that are little better than street corner drug dealers taking advantage of peoples addictions.

    Totally agree. There is a big risk that all local lottos and draws will be controlled by legislation that is intended for the myriad of big gambling companies:mad:


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,744 ✭✭✭diomed


    The trouble with local lottos is there is pressure to play.
    And there are numerous local lottos.

    My last local fundraising lotto/raffle contribution was on Thursday.

    Sport clubs, hospices, medical conditions, school trips to Africa, and many more.
    These are worthy causes, and I support monthly an orphanage in Argentina, a school building project in Kenya, and new bicycles for children in Africa, but there is pressure multiple times to support local causes.

    With sports gambling you have a choice. With these good causes you don't have a choice.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,678 ✭✭✭jjbrien


    Totally agree. There is a big risk that all local lottos and draws will be controlled by legislation that is intended for the myriad of big gambling companies:mad:

    Seems the junior minister seems be going in boots first instead of using his brain. I know a charity in Mullingar that runs a lottery every week the money rasied goes to providing local social services that the government wont cover like meels on wheels etc. Its always been a fair draw when it comes to the prizes, anyone can go watch the numbers being drawn.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    diomed wrote: »
    The trouble with local lottos is there is pressure to play.
    And there are numerous local lottos.
    There is but the people running these lottos are fully aware of that fact. It's often many of the same people involved in each of the lottos. I've been involved in planning selling the lottos, going around to pubs asking people to contribute. Our town has a soccer lotto, a rugby lotto, a GAA lotto, and often womens versions of each too.

    There are heated discussions of when to do the lottos so there isn't a cue of people lining up to ask for money for their club, they take turns and even things like when they sit outside the local supermarket are discussed because the shop doesn't like it's customers being hit up for money every time they go to the shop. But what can they do? If they don't collect the money they won't have money for even basic things. I think these lottos are often lucky to pull in €400 a fortnight.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    ScumLord wrote: »
    The worst thing is the GAA make millions that just seems to disappear, the players need to support themselves, the clubs need to support themselves, and all the money that is made seems to be soaked up by the top brass.

    Right....
    You do realise most of the infrastructure in the GAA is grant aided from GAA coffers?
    Coaching schemes are funded?
    Coaching courses and other stuff are run?
    It's an amateur sport. The players know that when they go onto a county panel.


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