Minister to crack down on 'wild west' illegal raffles and lotteries at sports clubs

Biggest lickspittle on boardz

A government minister believes many sporting club lottos and locally run raffles are operating illegally.
Junior Justice Minister David Stanton said he feared certain lotteries, including some raising funds for GAA clubs, were operating without approval or in breach of restrictions on the size of prizes.
The comments came as he prepares to introduce legislation by the end of the year paving the way for an independent regulatory authority for the gambling industry.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/minister-to-crack-down-on-wild-west-illegal-raffles-and-lotteries-at-sports-clubs-35690035.html

It's about bloody time too. And I hope he'll add those rigged 'best-dressed-ladies-who-just-happen-to-be-great-pals-with-the-judges-or-have-a-trendy-boutique' at the horse racing too. It's comical to see the corruption that goes on there at times. It's the same people winning over and over again.

And I've seen with my own eyes local organisers openly boasting about how they rigged the competitions too, and it wasn't just one club or sport either.

I also know of a publican who won his own Christmas draw of a few thousand euros :eek:

Have you any shady stories about dodgy draws or competitions?

corner of hells

You're clearly not wearing the nicest summer dress and don't know how to cheat.

Fratton Fred

pay €4.50 for a raffle ticket, first prize a pint of Guinness. Every ticket wins.

Who needs a bar licence?

ArmaniJeanss

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

Have you any shady stories about dodgy draws or competitions?

Spot the ball panels - few of the lads on my football teams had seamstress levels of skill at unsewing them to see the winner, claiming that slot with an illegible squiggle and then perfectly sewing it back. Punters were drawing dead.

ohnonotgmail

Fratton Fred wrote: »

pay €4.50 for a raffle ticket, first prize a pint of Guinness. Every ticket wins.

Who needs a bar licence?

you wouldnt need a bar licence. but you would need a lottery licence.

Ubbquittious

Junior Justice Minister David Stanton is obviously bored out of his skull and trying to make a name for himself during his idle time

Jrop

Junior Minister David Stanton has clearly nothing else to do, What about actually doing something useful like trying to sort out the problems at Oberstown ?

SEPT 23 1989

prayers and raffles

priorities

Allah snackbar

I can think of a lot of things more important than 5 grand in the local lotto or a lovely girls competition he could be getting on with

please helpThank YOU

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

prayers and raffles

priorities

Very True Well Said. Shower of gob****tes in dail eireann.

razorblunt

11! I was reading it upside down Ted.


There goes the obligatory Ted reference.

wordofwarning

It is terrible that local sports clubs are using funds for the local community with these raffles. Everyone should be buying national lottery tickets supporting the Ontario Teachers pension fund instead. Isn't that a worthy cause...

I know some of the national lottery funds go the community, but the emphasis is on some. If local communities want to raise money, there should not be a monopoly on it ie the national lottery.

Stars and Stripes

These are the same people FG/FF/LP etc who see nothing wrong with taking 'donations' by the thousands from builders, corporations, crony's, cute hoors etc. He mentions the GAA etc but I wouldn't put it past him that the smaller party's, left Independents, anti water charges groups and so on are having successful fund raising campaigns with local lottery's and hence want to block their funding.

stimpson

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

I also know of a publican who won his own Christmas draw of a few thousand euros :eek:

It's not unusual for that to happen from time to time...

whisky_galore

If there's evidence of corruption in the legal charities industry, it's a bit much to suggest that all these 'mom and pop' run lotteries are above board.

ohnonotgmail

stimpson wrote: »

It's not unusual for that to happen from time to time...

Now I'll have Ghost Town by The Specials stuck in my head for the rest of the day.

please helpThank YOU

We need a Revolution in Ireland like the French Revolution 1789 and overthrown them dictators school teachers from Dail Eireann.

bladespin

please helpThank YOU wrote: »

We need a Revolution in Ireland like the French Revolution 1789 and overthrown them dictators school teachers from Dail Eireann.

Problem is, we had a revolution and replaced the dictators whit the Dail.

ChikiChiki

Just to be seen to be doing things me thinks. How about dealing with the gazillions of other higher priority issues first minister.

bladespin

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Just to be seen to be doing things me thinks. How about dealing with the gazillions of other higher priority issues first minister.

Lottery operators probably had a moan.

learn_more

Anything that diminishes the constant stink of sports and sports news (football rugby and gaa specially) in the public arena I'd be all for it.

ohnonotgmail

learn_more wrote: »

Anything that diminishes the constant stink of sports and sports news (football rugby and gaa specially) in the public arena I'd be all for it.

and how precisely do you think a crackdown on club lotteries will do that?

ScumLord

This is ridiculous, these lottos are part of how local sports clubs fund raise. I know my local ones (which I've collected for) are counted in a pub, in front of people. I trust my local lotto more than I trust the corporate national lottery.

I'll buy local lottos not because I'll win money but to support my local community, at least I know that it's not going up the nose of some city slicker cock.

Vojera

ScumLord wrote: »

This is ridiculous, these lottos are part of how local sports clubs fund raise. I know my local ones (which I've collected for) are counted in a pub, in front of people. I trust my local lotto more than I trust the corporate national lottery.

I'll buy local lottos not because I'll win money but to support my local community, at least I know that it's not going up the nose of some city slicker cock.

Same, you don't enter it to win, you enter because you want to support the cause.

Saying that, I had my eye on a heifer as the first prize in the last raffle I entered and the ref won her. I was highly suspicious :mad:

ScumLord

Vojera wrote: »

Same, you don't enter it to win, you enter because you want to support the cause.

Saying that, I had my eye on a heifer as the first prize in the last raffle I entered and the ref won her. I was highly suspicious :mad:

I always wanted to win the prizes that are farm animals. I think someone told me that if you're not actually a farmer they'll work something else out like the price of the heifer. But I'd be all for having a pet cow and bringing it for walks and stuff.

conorhal

Excellent work minister!

Now.. I hear rumours of massive numbers of 8yr old earning undeclared revenue around this time of year and feel that this frequent and blatant tax evasion must be tackled as a top government priority!

Regards,

Senior Killjoy.

Richard Hillman

Big government getting bigger. More tax, more regulation.

Admittedly there is a big problem with dodgy draws. You just have to pick and choose organisations that you trust.

There are murmers in my area about a "fundraising" night held for a person that had cancer.

They organised a pub night to send the person and the children on a family holiday. They raised thousands from locals. Since then the person has been give the all clear from cancer and has been healthy for over a year or so and is back at work. They still haven't went on this holiday.

The person in question does have a very nice new car though.

ohnonotgmail

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Big government getting bigger. More tax, more regulation.

Admittedly there is a big problem with dodgy draws. You just have to pick and choose organisations that you trust.

There are murmers in my area about a "fundraising" night held for a person that had cancer.

They organised a pub night to send the person and the children on a family holiday. They raised thousands from locals. Since then the person has been give the all clear from cancer and has been healthy for over a year or so and is back at work. They still haven't went on this holiday.

The person in question does have a very nice new car though.

so you complain about more regulation while at the same time showing exactly why regulation is needed.

jjbrien

Hmmm does that mean the annual FG Superdraw will have to go then. I was approached years ago to buy a ticket for this ticket was 100 euro. Wonder will they stop the junior minister over this

DEFTLEFTHAND

ScumLord wrote: »

This is ridiculous, these lottos are part of how local sports clubs fund raise. I know my local ones (which I've collected for) are counted in a pub, in front of people. I trust my local lotto more than I trust the corporate national lottery.

I'll buy local lottos not because I'll win money but to support my local community, at least I know that it's not going up the nose of some city slicker cock.

As long as your club have a valid lottery licence they have nothing to worry about.

ScumLord

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

As long as your club have a valid lottery licence they have nothing to worry about.

I'd say they do, banks and insurance companies are another one for dictating what you can and can't do. They really do get all up in your business when you try to organise something. They can pretty much dictate what you can do or they won't give you insurance, which has a knock on effect where you can't get a license or a company won't deal with you without the bank signing off on it.. Most clubs will have had some situation where something has happened which would involved insurance or the law so they won't take chances anymore.

Johnny D. Mudd

I help run my local GAA club lotto raffle (I won't tell you which club as I'd rather not disseminate that kind of location-yielding to you crafty people) and firstly, I can tell you all that everything that is done is all above board. If anyone wins the main prize, it's because their numbers were correctly picked by a random number generating machine. Nothing can be fixed so that a specific person wins the lot.

Secondly, this lotto is run because without adequate Government grants and the like, we need alternative methods of fundraising in order to pay for sports equipment, coaches, repairs and all sorts of other expenses that are required of a GAA club. Without this raffle and many others like it, this club, and I'd venture to guess many others like it around the country, would have no adequate means of asic upkeep and as time passes would surely lead to closure.

The last point I would like to make is that GAA clubs around the country not only build a sense of community spirit but also offer a place for young people to go where they will be welcomed and looked after. It also offers an opportunity for these kids to get into irish sports such as football, hurling and camogie where they would at least get a chance of a healthier lifestyle and something for them to focus on. If there wasn't proper investment in clubs and they weren't able to pay the necessary expenses leading to foreclosure, these great opportunities would disappear.

ScumLord

Johnny D. Mudd wrote: »

Secondly, this lotto is run because without adequate Government grants and the like, we need alternative methods of fundraising in order to pay for sports equipment, coaches, repairs and all sorts of other expenses that are required of a GAA club. Without this raffle and many others like it, this club, and I'd venture to guess many others like it around the country, would have no adequate means of asic upkeep and as time passes would surely lead to closure.

The worst thing is the GAA make millions that just seems to disappear, the players need to support themselves, the clubs need to support themselves, and all the money that is made seems to be soaked up by the top brass.

Johnny D. Mudd

ScumLord wrote: »

The worst thing is the GAA make millions that just seems to disappear, the players need to support themselves, the clubs need to support themselves, and all the money that is made seems to be soaked up by the top brass.

Absolutely. I know my club and I daresay a good few others necessitate community support to get by without receiving the type of investment that they should be. I'm not saying that every club should get thousands of euros in grants each month but at least enough for basic upkeep every few months would be enough. Of course we're used to every facet of irish authorities soaking up a huge chunk of income while doling out meagre finances to those who absolutely need it. The GAA, the FAI, even governence itself. The list goes on and on really.

In that Independent article in the OP, it's reported that Dave Stanton is the man "tasked with moving forward legislation covering gambling", legislation which he intends to introduce "by the end of the year". Looking into it a bit further on Google, this seems to be a move to implement the Gambling Control Bill which was first published in 2013, but has been delayed and kicked about since. Something new is badly needed as the courts currently require the Gaming and Lottery Act 1956 to refer to for relevant cases which come before them.

Regulation in the gambling industry is a positive IMO - I fancy a casual bet from time to time, I know there are plenty of responsible gamblers who do it as a hobby and bet only what they can afford to lose, I know that there are people out there who are good at it and make a living from it. However, I also know of houses lost, families broken, lives shattered and that gambling addiction is a genuine, large problem in society.

Personal responsibility comes into any addiction, absolutely. However, in an age where betting advertising is all over the place (TV, internet, famous actors/personalities endorsing betting companies, logos on football jerseys etc) and the ease of which one can put on a bet without leaving their house, I'd argue that the willpower required to exercise that personal responsibility has increased greatly. Some regulatory measures which are more recent than 60 years old, both progressive and smart, are required.

Maybe the forthcoming version of the Bill will address all of that, but Stanton being so outspoken about and focused on such a small thing as local raffles and lotteries as a primary issue, essentially non-profit fundraisers, isn't promising.

There is mention in the article of a broader, preventative, smart move to ban U18s from gambling, but then there's this to make up for the tax that the government will lose from the U18's betting with tax-paying businesses...

In an interview with the Irish Independent, Mr Stanton said he was also committed to introducing a "social fund levy" on betting companies, with the cash generated being ringfenced for the treatment of gambling addicts.

Ah right, another tax so, another levy, social something something, for the treatment of addicts of course.

From the original draft of the Bill in 2013 (90 pages of which can be read here, if anyone cares to read it all)

The powers, duties and functions of the Minister as set out in [this Act] are for the purpose of ensuring:

(i) fairness in the conduct of gambling,
(ii) the protection of vulnerable persons, including children, from risks to their well being arising from gambling,
(iii) the avoidance of circumstances where gambling could, inadvertently or otherwise, facilitate or enable criminal or illegal activity
(iv)consumer choice and protection

Okay, point (iii) is where this local raffle and lotto measure will fall under I guess with the likes of tax evasion, intentional or otherise, but it just seems like such small potatoes. A senator raised concerns to Dave Stanton in the Seanad last Summer of slightly larger potatoes - He spoke of anecdotal reports of members of organised crime, mainly pimps, using betting firms as a regular means to launder their illegal takings. Stanton merely said at the time that this was an issue, and referred to this forthcoming Bill which would address it.

Now almost a year later, it seems that this required regulation for the gambling industry is nigh. Rather than introducing it to the press and starting off the public discourse with something more ambitious, targeting more organised, deliberate and sinister areas like the one raised in the above paragraph, it seems we're supposed to get the pitchforks out for the hang sandwhich makers who try to get a clubhouse built or some floodlights installed for their local sporting organisation.

Don't get me wrong - I've no great affection for the GAA as a big business organisation, or actively take part in their sports as an adult, but lottos and raffles are the bread and butter of small, forgotten clubs around the country. Many of these clubs around the country are the lifeblood of a community, more so in the extra-rural parts of Ireland of which there are quite a few. They are also dependent on physical and financial voluntary assistance from members of the community. Many offer their support by putting a few quid towards the club lotto, it's not like they are chomping at the bit and betting large sums on potential winnings of about €5k.

I'm not saying that illegal activity is okay once it's only a little bit of illegal activity and once the perpetrators are "pillars of the community", just that this is such a bizarre place to start from in such a huge industry in need of regulation.

They want to protect the kids as part of the primary functions of this new Bill of course, but strangling the kids local sporting organisations with bureaucratic red tape which will cost money to service and adhere to will only serve to put the clubs which are already struggling into extinction.

Richard Hillman

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

so you complain about more regulation while at the same time showing exactly why regulation is needed.

It is about personal choices. Only buy raffle tickets off organisations/people that you trust.


Although individuals should be paying tax on such things.

ohnonotgmail

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It is about personal choices. Only buy raffle tickets off organisations/people that you trust.


Although individuals should be paying tax on such things.

So crooked raffles should be just left to it?

diomed

I hope any gambling legislation stops connections (owners, trainers) running more than one horse in a race.
This is a fraud on the betting public.
All horses are supposed to be ridden to obtain the best possible place but are often used either to (1) act as pacemaker, or (2) to give them and educational run, or (3) to get them ready for another race.

Fwiw a family member was at a draw run by a national wholesale organisation years ago. When the first ticket was drawn it was put aside as the winner was not a regular customer. There were a few more drawn until they found a ticket from a good customer.

ScumLord

stankratz wrote: »

Regulation in the gambling industry is a positive IMO

It certainly is. When ever I go to a friends house and they stick on Sky it's disgusting how many ads there are for gambling companies, I'm also shocked by the celebrities willing to promote these companies. That kind of gambling and the advertising of it needs to be seriously controlled.

But local lottos aren't gambling. Most people don't go out of their way to do it or really expect to win anything, even if they do win something it's usually not that much money so they aren't going to be spending all their money trying to win it.

To lump local lottos in with the big players in gambling is ridiculous. It's a misdirection and excuse to go lenient on those bigger gambling companies that are little better than street corner drug dealers taking advantage of peoples addictions.

corner of hells

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

Have you any shady stories about dodgy draws or competitions?

Spot the ball panels - few of the lads on my football teams had seamstress levels of skill at unsewing them to see the winner, claiming that slot with an illegible squiggle and then perfectly sewing it back. Punters were drawing dead.

Master criminals no less on the loose.How much would they win for this dastardly deed ?

Next year they'll be robbing Trocaire
boxes .

Kristopherus

ScumLord wrote: »

It certainly is. When ever I go to a friends house and they stick on Sky it's disgusting how many ads there are for gambling companies, I'm also shocked by the celebrities willing to promote these companies. That kind of gambling and the advertising of it needs to be seriously controlled.

But local lottos aren't gambling. Most people don't go out of their way to do it or really expect to win anything, even if they do win something it's usually not that much money so they aren't going to be spending all their money trying to win it.

To lump local lottos in with the big players in gambling is ridiculous. It's a misdirection and excuse to go lenient on those bigger gambling companies that are little better than street corner drug dealers taking advantage of peoples addictions.

Totally agree. There is a big risk that all local lottos and draws will be controlled by legislation that is intended for the myriad of big gambling companies:mad:

diomed

The trouble with local lottos is there is pressure to play.
And there are numerous local lottos.

My last local fundraising lotto/raffle contribution was on Thursday.

Sport clubs, hospices, medical conditions, school trips to Africa, and many more.
These are worthy causes, and I support monthly an orphanage in Argentina, a school building project in Kenya, and new bicycles for children in Africa, but there is pressure multiple times to support local causes.

With sports gambling you have a choice. With these good causes you don't have a choice.

jjbrien

Kristopherus wrote: »

Totally agree. There is a big risk that all local lottos and draws will be controlled by legislation that is intended for the myriad of big gambling companies:mad:

Seems the junior minister seems be going in boots first instead of using his brain. I know a charity in Mullingar that runs a lottery every week the money rasied goes to providing local social services that the government wont cover like meels on wheels etc. Its always been a fair draw when it comes to the prizes, anyone can go watch the numbers being drawn.

ScumLord

diomed wrote: »

The trouble with local lottos is there is pressure to play.
And there are numerous local lottos.

There is but the people running these lottos are fully aware of that fact. It's often many of the same people involved in each of the lottos. I've been involved in planning selling the lottos, going around to pubs asking people to contribute. Our town has a soccer lotto, a rugby lotto, a GAA lotto, and often womens versions of each too.

There are heated discussions of when to do the lottos so there isn't a cue of people lining up to ask for money for their club, they take turns and even things like when they sit outside the local supermarket are discussed because the shop doesn't like it's customers being hit up for money every time they go to the shop. But what can they do? If they don't collect the money they won't have money for even basic things. I think these lottos are often lucky to pull in €400 a fortnight.

nice_guy80

ScumLord wrote: »

The worst thing is the GAA make millions that just seems to disappear, the players need to support themselves, the clubs need to support themselves, and all the money that is made seems to be soaked up by the top brass.

Right....
You do realise most of the infrastructure in the GAA is grant aided from GAA coffers?
Coaching schemes are funded?
Coaching courses and other stuff are run?
It's an amateur sport. The players know that when they go onto a county panel.