Anything Maiden

cournioni · 08-05-2017 10:45AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Grasping at straws much ? Do you even know Angel of Death ? It's a condemnation of Mengele, The Trooper is completely different.

You say Maiden should have respect for your history (have they ever said or done otherwise ?), but you seemingly don't respect their choice to wave that flag. It's something they have done for decades without problem, yet only here people get upset about it. They've played in pretty much every former British colony or places where they did some nasty ****, and nowhere do people moan about that flag. Probably because they know it's just a prop (one that Bruce Dickinson throws away at the end of the song as well).

Changing it to an Irish flag would be ridiculous.

Anyway, as I'm done with this tiresome argument: Tried out my phone camera during Children of the Damned, pretty happy with the result

Utter babble and inaccuracy. Let me ask, were you at any of the Irish Maiden gigs since 2006? If you were, then you'll know that there were problems.

Jelle1880 · 08-05-2017 10:48AM

cournioni wrote: »

Utter babble and inaccuracy. Let me ask, were you at any of the Irish Maiden gigs since 2006? If you were, then you'll know that there were problems.

When and where ? Maybe you should read my post again, I clearly said that it only seems to be an issue in Ireland (and I'm aware of the myth that they burned an Irish flag and what happened in 2003). Luckily most people seem to have grown up, apart from a small minority.

Dyr · 08-05-2017 10:49AM

jack presley wrote: »

Not only is it about British soldiers, it's about British soldiers in a war that took place in the 1850s. It was well known at this stage what happens on stage when they play the Trooper and it was also well known that it was in the set list on this tour so if anyone was going to be offended by it, maybe they should have stayed at home.

I wouldn't be offended by it but I've always thought they were prats for waving union jacks everywhere they went.

But Maiden were always tacky as **** I guess

Mental Mickey · 08-05-2017 10:49AM

Bassfish wrote: »

He did a running jump from up in the balcony and hit the canopy above the sound desk on the way down.

Tool!!!!

FullBack Jam · 08-05-2017 10:51AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

It's a song about British soldiers, what do you expect ? This crap about it being a political symbol being shoved in people's faces is pathetic.
What's next, they shouldn't put up that massive banner from The Trooper ?

Him waving that flag isn't a problem, the people who think he shouldn't because it upsets their feelings are though.

You may not feel so casual about it if a member of your immediate family was shot by a British soldier in the troubles. You visit, say your father’s grave every day resenting the circumstances in which he died. Then you go to a gig and the union jack is waved around in a victorious manner on stage. I know that the song is about a different war, but the union jack is still a symbol of all things British in many people’s eyes. Iron Maiden are not doing it as a political stance against the Irish. It’s nothing to do with Ireland. But they could conclude “Guys, you know what, waving the union jack around in Dublin is not that appropriate, considering the (very recent) history there. Let’s not do it as a mark of respect”.

Personally, it doesn’t affect me. I really enjoyed the gig. Enjoyed that particular song. Northern Ireland issues have never affected me, family, friends etc.
But it’s more than just upsetting feelings, as you put it. There are many, many people on this land who have raw emotions over England, NI issue. You should not just dismiss it with a “get over it” notion.

Anyway, I thought the gig was absolutely brilliant. The Red and the Black is phenomenal live. Thought I would really miss Hallowed. Didn’t even think of it.

Dyr · 08-05-2017 10:54AM

Mental Mickey wrote: »

Tool!!!!

Henry Rollins predicted it though

Jelle1880 · 08-05-2017 10:55AM

flasher0030 wrote: »

You may not feel so casual about it if a member of your immediate family was shot by a British soldier in the troubles. You visit, say your father?s grave every day resenting the circumstances in which he died. Then you go to a gig and the union jack is waved around in a victorious manner on stage. I know that the song is about a different war, but the union jack is still a symbol of all things British in many people?s eyes. Iron Maiden are not doing it as a political stance against the Irish. It?s nothing to do with Ireland. But they could conclude ?Guys, you know what, waving the union jack around in Dublin is not that appropriate, considering the (very recent) history there. Let?s not do it as a mark of respect?.

Personally, it doesn?t affect me. I really enjoyed the gig. Enjoyed that particular song. Northern Ireland issues have never affected me, family, friends etc.
But it?s more than just upsetting feelings, as you put it. There are many, many people on this land who have raw emotions over England, NI issue. You should not just dismiss it with a ?get over it? notion.

Anyway, I thought the gig was absolutely brilliant. The Red and the Black is phenomenal live. Thought I would really miss Hallowed. Didn?t even think of it.

I never said people who have suffered before, during or after the Troubles don't have the right to not want a Union jack waved around.

But then those people should be aware that it happens at every Maiden gig and maybe not go to said show (or go for a pint while the song plays) ? I'll never understand why you'd go to something where you know things that annoy you might happen.

Hallowed is a miss though, I really hope it's not true that he simply can't sing it anymore as it would be a damn shame.

Nailz · 08-05-2017 11:01AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

When and where ? Maybe you should read my post again, I clearly said that it only seems to be an issue in Ireland (and I'm aware of the myth that they burned an Irish flag and what happened in 2003). Luckily most people seem to have grown up, apart from a small minority.

What the hell are you babbling on about? Nobody has brought that up nor are using that as a grounds for offence. I personally wasn't even aware of it, and I am sure it's nonsense anyway.

Pull it together. If you are honestly clueless as to why waving a Union flag (in any form) would potentially be cause for offense in Ireland of all places you should really educate yourself. It doesn't matter if they do it every gig, it's up to each country what they feel about the Union flag and the past and present it symbolises; the issue is the past that it symbolises in Ireland is a nasty, despicable one. More care should be taken, and seeing as they went back on their word from over 10/11 years ago is insulting towards Irish audiences; as if we're dopey eejits who'll forget eventually.

Anyway, delighted they played Powerslave, excellent song live! The gig itself was generally enjoyable, as most Maiden gigs are.

Jelle1880 · 08-05-2017 11:09AM

Nailz wrote: »

What the hell are you babbling on about? Nobody has brought that up nor are using that as a grounds for offence. I personally wasn't even aware of it, and I am sure it's nonsense anyway.

Pull it together. If you are honestly as clueless as to why waving a Union flag (in any form) would be potentially be cause for offense in Ireland of all places you should really educate yourself.

Maybe have a read through the thread before getting all uppity.

The poster I replied to made it seem like whenever they played there was trouble when he brings out that flag. I mentioned 2003 because that is the only instance of trouble I know about, so either he backs up his claim with proof or he's talking ****.

I'm not clueless as to why some people might get upset about it, but those people's opinions aren't exactly worth much if they're talking about a gig where the chance of this flag showing up is extremely high. People who desperately want to be offended can **** off.
That's like going to a Mayhem show and then complain how it's all bit too much and they should tone it down.

FullBack Jam · 08-05-2017 11:14AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I never said people who have suffered before, during or after the Troubles don't have the right to not want a Union jack waved around.

But then those people should be aware that it happens at every Maiden gig and maybe not go to said show ? I'll never understand why you'd go to something where you know things that annoy you might happen.

Hallowed is a miss though, I really hope it's not true that he simply can't sing it anymore as it would be a damn shame.

Now you’re making me miss Hallowed. I had convinced myself that it didn’t matter!!! Come to think of it alright, if they had Hallowed instead of Great Unknown, would have reached the heights of greatness. I thought Great Unknown was a real filler in the gig. Not a bad song, just not really a gig song.

But just on the other point, is it possible that your comment could be rephrased “I’ll never understand why you’d put on a show and do an act that you know will annoy many of the people that are there”. I.e. aimed at the instigators, rather than those that may be hurt/offended by the action. I was at the Dance of Death gig in The Point. Thought it would be great. Unfortunately for us, one of our mates came along who knows nothing about Maiden and is hardcore nationalist. When the flag came out, he went daft. It ruined the gig for us. Constant booing and heckling after that – from him and hundreds of other around us. My point is – why instigate the flag waving when they know it impacts negatively on some section of the crowd. I presume it wasn’t during the Trooper that guy jumped from upper level. Or maybe he saw the u jack and saw red. Sorry, I know that’s not appropriate.

Jelle1880 · 08-05-2017 11:18AM

flasher0030 wrote: »

Now you?re making me miss Hallowed. I had convinced myself that it didn?t matter!!! Come to think of it alright, if they had Hallowed instead of Great Unknown, would have reached the heights of greatness. I thought Great Unknown was a real filler in the gig. Not a bad song, just not really a gig song.

But just on the other point, is it possible that your comment could be rephrased ?I?ll never understand why you?d put on a show and do an act that you know will annoy many of the people that are there?. I.e. aimed at the instigators, rather than those that may be hurt/offended by the action. I was at the Dance of Death gig in The Point. Thought it would be great. Unfortunately for us, one of our mates came along who knows nothing about Maiden and is hardcore nationalist. When the flag came out, he went daft. It ruined the gig for us. Constant booing and heckling after that ? from him and hundreds of other around us. My point is ? why instigate the flag waving when they know it impacts negatively on some section of the crowd. I presume it wasn?t during the Trooper that guy jumped from upper level. Or maybe he saw the u jack and saw red. Sorry, I know that?s not appropriate.

I'm not a fan when people should try to appease a tiny portion of the populace (or attendees in this case) so their feelings don't get hurt.

You were there, it's clear that the vast majority of people had absolutely no problem with the song and the flag waving. And if someone doesn't like it, that's fine but expecting or demanding a band to not do something they've done for decades is a bit much.

Blazer · 08-05-2017 11:36AM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

I'm not a fan when people should try to appease a tiny portion of the populace (or attendees in this case) so their feelings don't get hurt.

You were there, it's clear that the vast majority of people had absolutely no problem with the song and the flag waving. And if someone doesn't like it, that's fine but expecting or demanding a band to not do something they've done for decades is a bit much.

Personally i think that they should announce they're waving the Union Jack during the trooper and that if anyone doesn't like it thn fcuk off.
I've followed Maiden since a young fella for 30 years and they've always been proud of being British and who am I to be annoyed by it? People need to separate politics from music.

FullBack Jam · 08-05-2017 11:37AM

I think you're getting mixed up in the difference between appeasing a mass group of people (i.e. playing a setlist that everybody likes) and not purposely doing something that aggravates people in the audience i.e. waving uj flag. The band are also bound to be aware that Eddie is used as a symbol by Loyalists - another factor that they should have taken in to account.

FullBack Jam · 08-05-2017 11:38AM

Blazer wrote: »

Personally i think that they should announce they're waving the Union Jack during the trooper and that if anyone doesn't like it thn fcuk off.
I've followed Maiden since a young fella for 30 years and they've always been proud of being British and who am I to be annoyed by it? People need to separate politics from music.

Precisely - play the music, and quit the flag-waving political symbolism.

Grayditch · 08-05-2017 11:41AM

Why is it not ok to say "Great gig, but I wish they wouldn't wave that flag" ?

FullBack Jam · 08-05-2017 11:44AM

Blazer wrote: »

Personally i think that they should announce they're waving the Union Jack during the trooper and that if anyone doesn't like it thn fcuk off.
I've followed Maiden since a young fella for 30 years and they've always been proud of being British and who am I to be annoyed by it? People need to separate politics from music.

I'd be interested on what advice you’d give to Bruce Springsteen on his forthcoming tour of the Middle East. He’s thinking of dishing out the Star Spangled Banner in Iraq and giving it a good auld wave. Maybe you’d advise him to tell them to go f@ck themselves. That would show them not to be so sensitive.

Dyr · 08-05-2017 11:47AM

Blazer wrote: »

People need to separate politics from music.

They sure do. Not waving flags like prats would be a start. I'm not sure what's funnier the people who get upset at it or the fan boys who can't accept that waving flags at every gig is retarded carry on, puts them in the same category as ted nugent, and errmm..ted nugent. Or Skrewdriver

Incidentally, the whole mengele thing got Slayer into hot water when RIB was released, no one went "oh they're CONDEMNING it" based on the lyrics back then.

Blazer · 08-05-2017 12:07PM

flasher0030 wrote: »

I'd be interested on what advice you’d give to Bruce Springsteen on his forthcoming tour of the Middle East. He’s thinking of dishing out the Star Spangled Banner in Iraq and giving it a good auld wave. Maybe you’d advise him to tell them to go f@ck themselves. That would show them not to be so sensitive.

U sure about that? Why on earth would he wave that flag?

Jelle1880 · 08-05-2017 12:09PM

flasher0030 wrote: »

I think you're getting mixed up in the difference between appeasing a mass group of people (i.e. playing a setlist that everybody likes) and not purposely doing something that aggravates people in the audience i.e. waving uj flag. The band are also bound to be aware that Eddie is used as a symbol by Loyalists - another factor that they should have taken in to account.

Maybe they're secretly massive Loyalists. :eek:

Joking aside, I highly doubt Maiden are up to date with the whole Loyalist murals thing.

cournioni · 08-05-2017 01:20PM

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Maybe they're secretly massive Loyalists. :eek:

Joking aside, I highly doubt Maiden are up to date with the whole Loyalist murals thing.
People will always find something to get upset about it seems.

The funny thing is, they blamed the link the Union Flag has with loyalism for the uproar over it in the Point a decade ago - no mention of the hell people serving under that flag has put our both our ancestors and friends in the six counties through.

They're either ignorant of it (which I sincerely hope is the case) or they are doing it knowingly, in which case they are laughing at us (you included). You can't say that one of the six members of the band hasn't got some kind of education in history. Either way they should have stuck with their word from the RDS gig and not brought it out.

Whats wrong with just playing the music? What does waving the flag around in front of people victoriously add to their show? They are musicians and should stick to music.

You can delude yourself into thinking its only a minority which were offended/uncomfortable/outraged or whatever other emotion they had towards it all you want - in reality there were plenty of Maiden fans bemused (people either side of me were really into the show before the Trooper and quite obviously were bemused).

Jelle1880 · 08-05-2017 01:44PM

cournioni wrote: »

The funny thing is, they blamed the link the Union Flag has with loyalism for the uproar over it in the Point a decade ago - no mention of the hell people serving under that flag has put our both our ancestors and friends in the six counties through.

They're either ignorant of it (which I sincerely hope is the case) or they are doing it knowingly, in which case they are laughing at us (you included). You can't say that one of the six members of the band hasn't got some kind of education in history. Either way they should have stuck with their word from the RDS gig and not brought it out.

Whats wrong with just playing the music? What does waving the flag around in front of people victoriously add to their show? They are musicians and should stick to music.

You can delude yourself into thinking its only a minority which were offended/uncomfortable/outraged or whatever other emotion they had towards it all you want - in reality there were plenty of Maiden fans bemused (people either side of me were really into the show before the Trooper and quite obviously were bemused).

They are musicians but they can basically do whatever they want, it's their show. If waving a flag is part of their performance then so be it. Do you genuinely believe that he's waving that to showcase the supremacy of the British Empire ? Why should they just do something different in Ireland that they have done in all other parts of the world ? The Argentinians or Indians don't seem to have a problem with the flag waving.

I can't help but feel that some of blame Maiden for doing what you seemingly can't do yourself, namely separating politics from music.

And as for the second part in bold: Anecdoctal evidence isn't enough to prove that somehow 'plenty of Maiden fans were bemused'.

Dravokivich · 08-05-2017 01:51PM

cournioni wrote: »

Whats wrong with just playing the music? What does waving the flag around in front of people victoriously add to their show? They are musicians and should stick to music.

You can delude yourself into thinking its only a minority which were offended/uncomfortable/outraged or whatever other emotion they had towards it all you want - in reality there were plenty of Maiden fans bemused (people either side of me were really into the show before the Trooper and quite obviously were bemused).

What's the point on going to a Rock and Roll / Metal gig if all they are going to do is a recital?

If anyone was bemused, it just shows how little they knew of Iron Maiden beforehand. I was bemused before back in 2003, not by the sight of the flag but the reaction some people seemed to take against it, who didn't seem to be aware that it's a part of their show.