Bouncer punches woman who tried to punch him.

seamus · 21-04-2017 01:47PM

beauf wrote: »

He could just block and restrained her. People have died after a single punch and falling and striking their head.

The Gardai could also have just shot the shotgun out of John Carty's hand instead of shooting him in the torso.

People have died from being restrained too. Anyone claiming that the bouncer should have "just blocked and restrained her" has been watching too much TV and are utterly clueless about the realities of reacting to an attack.

WHIP IT! · 21-04-2017 01:48PM

Omackeral wrote: »

Dunno if you've been following the thread, I've literally said if someone hits you, you hit them back about 6 or 7 times. That statement above inferred that you teach your kids not to hit anyone first for no reason.

Maybe don't leave out the "for no reason" part next time...

Pat Mustard · 21-04-2017 01:51PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I'd freely admit I'm biased,

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I hadn't seen the video and I didn't feel it was necessary to see the video

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Of course I'm going to be biased

Quoted for Truth.

pilly · 21-04-2017 01:52PM

Omackeral wrote: »

Pilly, I trained Krav Maga for a couple of years and they teach what you're saying actually, consider your options. That's what I'd do if I was out and about in town or in public. I'd absolutely look to get out of there asap if someone was assaulting or trying to assault me if I could. If you walk or run away, your chances of being hurt further or having a subsequent charge and court date brought against you drastically go down. However, sometimes you're cornered and you have to fight back. This magical restraining isn't something you can always just do. Sometimes, your assailant will be frenzied enough that their sheer will to cause you damage can only be quashed by a bit of force.

In my job, and I assume bouncers too, you can't always just get out of there. You're often cornered in and you don't know if more people are gonna get involved or if the perpetrator(s)have a weapon. A lot of the time myself and my colleagues are outnumbered so fighting back is required and we're covered by law for same. I know you scoffed at the idea that they might have a weapon concealed on them but I've seen it and I've seen the results of it. People's faces cut so badly by a blade that you can see their teeth through their cheeks. These phrases of 'man up' and 'worth your salt' are grand to spout but I don't believe anyone deserves to be scarred for life because of some jumped up thug. Stop them in their tracks if they're intent on doing you damage.

So answer the same theoretical question that I was asked and you hammered me for.

If a mad little aul one threw a dig at you in the middle of Tescos what would you do? Take her down?

21-04-2017 01:53PM

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Maybe don't leave out the "for no reason" part next time...

I probably said it a dozen times on thread already. Anyway, nobody hit anybody first for no reason, regardless of gender.

beauf · 21-04-2017 01:55PM

seamus wrote: »

The Gardai could also have just shot the shotgun out of John Carty's hand instead of shooting him in the torso.

People have died from being restrained too. Anyone claiming that the bouncer should have "just blocked and restrained her" has been watching too much TV and are utterly clueless about the realities of reacting to an attack.

I like the way you equate some drunk person, who missed by a country mile in slow motion vs a professional bouncer with someone with a gun. At least they tried. A bouncer shouldn't be reacting on instinct but on training.

beauf · 21-04-2017 01:55PM

the_syco wrote: »

Because you do not want to treat women equally? That's very sexist of you :pac:

Very sexist to assume i was a sexist reason. Might be conflicted for some other reason.

beauf · 21-04-2017 01:57PM

pilly wrote: »

So answer the same theoretical question that I was asked and you hammered me for.

If a mad little aul one threw a dig at you in the middle of Tescos what would you do? Take her down?

Make sure they aren't getting back up apparently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk3ds-VFKBs

21-04-2017 01:57PM

pilly wrote: »

So answer the same theoretical question that I was asked and you hammered me for.

If a mad little aul one threw a dig at you in the middle of Tescos what would you do? Take her down?

I don't need to answer any theoretical questions because I have been assaulted by a woman before in public. I've posted about it on this thread. Here's what I did

Omackeral wrote: »

I've been assaulted outside of work by a woman before. She punched me right into the face. I said to her ''don't you dare do that again''. She went to do it again and I grabbed her by the wrists. When I let her go she went to do it yet again. I restrained her by the arms and shoved her away from me. She went on her arse in almost slow motion and start screaming that I assaulted her and she was now playing victim. What do you do in that situation? Keep getting belted? Nah, f*ck that noise.

I personally wouldn't feel right punching a woman full on in the face because I'd probably cave her face in but at the same time I'm not letting some scumbag have free reign on me. If you're provoked and pushed enough, you fight back. So while I'd not burst someone as hard as can, I still have no sympathy for aggressors getting hit back.

pilly · 21-04-2017 02:00PM

Omackeral wrote: »

I don't need to answer any theoretical questions because I have been assaulted by a woman before in public. I've posted about it on this thread. Here's what I did

Grand, so we agree, no need to punch a woman in the face.

beauf · 21-04-2017 02:01PM

That's a little different no? Though we dont have the full video here either.

Pat Mustard · 21-04-2017 02:02PM

irelandrover wrote: »

How could he walk away when he has to stay on the door as part of his job.

He would be expected to duck under drunken haymakers while retreating from attack to the other door jamb while simultaneously calling the police and watching the door, which is his job.

raze_them_all_ · 21-04-2017 02:04PM

People who have never worked a door honestly have very little idea of how often and quickly situations like this can get out of hand.

21-04-2017 02:10PM

pilly wrote: »

Grand, so we agree, no need to punch a woman in the face.

Listen, just because I personally didn't do it in my situation doesn't mean I wouldn't in another. I'd try my best not to resort to hitting people if it could be avoided. In that situation, I dealt with it as I could. If across the room I saw that woman doing the exact same to a man what she did to me and he slapped her one, I wouldn't bat an eye lad. I'd think good enough for her.

Gonna state this again, I am not comfortable with hitting women. Me personally hitting them I mean. I'm just not. It's happened me once where I was hit but I managed to deal with it in that given situation. But if I see someone else giving a clout to a woman as a reciprocal for what they've dished out, then fcuk the initial aggressor in all honesty. No sympathy.

One eyed Jack · 21-04-2017 02:15PM

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Quoted for Truth.

Quoted out of context for a version of the truth you wanted to portray though?

Can you not see that for some... people, they will use this situation as an example of "toxic masculiniteeee", and it absolutely hasn't anything to do with being masculine at all, because IMO anyone who behaves like that is a scumbag, regardless of their gender.

That's why I said we're not in a court of law now, we're on a website where in After Hours it's almost expected that there are going to be some people arguing self-defence, but in a rather disproportionate fashion to the original offence.

I don't think we've had any "punt in the cnut" or "knee in the gee" type comments yet though, so change is happening gradually I suppose.

the_syco · 21-04-2017 02:17PM

beauf wrote: »

He could just block and restrained her. People have died after a single punch and falling and striking their head. It was an over reaction IMO but was self defense.

If she had a diamond ring on the hand that she swung with, and it made contact, it would have done a LOT of damage.

Also, had he restrained her, people would have claimed he was groping her! Or her partner could have then attacked him as he wouldn't be able to defend himself. Basically, no matter what teh bouncer does, people will judge him because his attacker is a woman (and thus seen as as a weak human by some).

One eyed Jack wrote: »

The doorman would still IMO have been wrong in those circumstances, but when I watched the video, it was actually much worse than I had imagined - she threw a drunken punch that he saw coming, ducked, and then instead of turning and walking away, lashed out at her.

Was he meant to keep ducking and weaving until she made contact, or critically injured him with a weapon?

beauf wrote: »

Very sexist to assume i was a sexist reason. Might be conflicted for some other reason.

Please note the pacman sarcasm smiliey.

Pat Mustard · 21-04-2017 02:20PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Quoted out of context for a version of the truth you wanted to portray though?

Is there a different version of events where you weren't biased and you didn't admit to being biased and where you actually watched the video before posting on the thread for a couple of days?

WinnyThePoo · 21-04-2017 02:27PM

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Is there a different version of events where you weren't biased and you didn't admit to being biased and where you actually watched the video before posting on the thread for a couple of days?

It's utterly baffling now reading back on the thread.

He continually calls the bouncer a scumbag to video he didn't bother his hole watching .

The Domonator · 21-04-2017 02:28PM

Equal rights, and lefts.

El_Duderino 09 · 21-04-2017 02:37PM

I can't get my head around this idea of distinguishing between hitting a man vs hitting a woman. "Hitting" is the important part of the sentence for me, not the gender of the person hit.

Most people go through their lives without hitting anyone on a regular basis. The last time I punched someone was on a rugby match and I was a teenager. These two people are clearly into hitting people so I say they are welcome to have at each other.

Violent types should keep it amongst themselves. This video shows 2 violent people, doing what violent people do. I can't see what the violent people's gender has to go with the price of spudz

Pat Mustard · 21-04-2017 02:47PM

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

It's utterly baffling now reading back on the thread.

He continually calls the bouncer a scumbag to video he didn't bother his hole watching .

He didn't watch the video but he said that he imagined what the doorman did.

One eyed Jack · 21-04-2017 02:49PM

Pat Mustard wrote: »

Is there a different version of events where you weren't biased and you didn't admit to being biased and where you actually watched the video before posting on the thread for a couple of days?

As I said,

- I didn't feel the need to watch the video because I was going on the accounts here of what happened, where I assumed that the girl had connected with a drunken punch, and the doorman instinctively reacted with a quick slap. They'd still be a scumbag under those circumstances.

- we're not in a court of law, so nobody is going to be found guilty or otherwise based on the opinions of any of our posts.

- Complaints of bias require a great deal more evidence before either the prosecution or the defence could start waving that one around and expect it to be taken seriously.

Pat Mustard · 21-04-2017 02:50PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

- Complaints of bias require a great deal more evidence before either the prosecution or the defence could start waving that one around and expect it to be taken seriously.

:pac:

Glenster · 21-04-2017 03:02PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

As I said,

- I didn't feel the need to watch the video because I was going on the accounts here of what happened, where I assumed that the girl had connected with a drunken punch, and the doorman instinctively reacted with a quick slap. They'd still be a scumbag under those circumstances.

- we're not in a court of law, so nobody is going to be found guilty or otherwise based on the opinions of any of our posts.

- Complaints of bias require a great deal more evidence before either the prosecution or the defence could start waving that one around and expect it to be taken seriously.

Case dismissed.

Next on the docket;

A poster used the word 'pal' in a passive aggressive manner.

One eyed Jack · 21-04-2017 03:04PM

Pat Mustard wrote: »

:pac:

They could wave it around all they wanted, whether it would be taken seriously or not is another matter entirely, much like the way your accusing me of being biased as if I'm supposed to take it seriously, when really we're all here just shooting the breeze.

ohnonotgmail · 21-04-2017 03:07PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

They could wave it around all they wanted, whether it would be taken seriously or not is another matter entirely, much like the way your accusing me of being biased as if I'm supposed to take it seriously, when really we're all here just shooting the breeze.

you admitted to being biased. you were not accused of it.

ZeitgeistGlee · 21-04-2017 03:10PM

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Naturally I'm going to be extremely biased because I am a man, and I would hold any man to that same standard, and if I were a woman (which I'm not), I would hold women to that same standard.

Perhaps I'm reading this wrong, but are you saying you can't hold a woman to the same standard as a man for violent conduct because you're not a woman? Surely all people should all be held to the same standard irrespective of gender?

Still waiting on an answer to this one Jack.

alpha13 · 21-04-2017 03:16PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

alpha I'd agree with a lot of what you said alright, but this bit, and the bit about fear of being accused of sexual assault/harrassment - he should have expected it and been prepared for it, rather than being taken by surprise like that. As for the fear of being accused of sexual assault/racism (once or twice I got the "is it cos I is bleck?" type, I couldn't care less if they were purple with green spots), if they're not sexually assaulting anyone they won't have anything to worry about, same as if they don't slap anyone, they won't have anything to worry about. Any time the Gardaí were ever called, they were always more than helpful in those situations.

i agree with you jack... when i said HAD to.. i mean it in the terms that only the person in the situation knows what THEY believe they need to do... lots of us believe we would handle the situation better..and maybe we would... i would like to believe i would in that situation... and more than likely would as i always adopted the approach with any situation regarding females as step back look at the whole picture before you react... and react as if it is a very very serious situation..usually it wont be that bad and therefore you are prepared for the worst and have a good situation then because it wont be that bad... but it still boils down to the person in the situation at that particular time...but i also know that, as you will well know.. people straight away have an opinion on doormen and any claim made against us usually ends up with us having to fight to prove we did NOT do anything rather than innocent until proven guilty..i too have found the gardai very helpful in situations on the door and most understand we are just doing our best and will be reasonable..but they still have a job to do IF a complaint is made..particularly from a female member.. there is NO being prepared for the possibility of being accused of harassement or wrong doing in that manner...they are very serious comments with very real ramification.. just look at the irish solider accused of rape a longtime ago abroad.. even after she admitted to making up the story to save her reputation because she had sex and was drunk... people still didnt believe him and looked at him as if he HAD done the rape.. i know it is a different situation and only highlight it to point out the real risks out there... that sort is far more damaging that any physical.. physical will heal..mental and reputational has long reaching effects... again.. just my opinion on it.... as i said earlier..only once did i have to use force..and always prided myself on that fact..like you found common courtesy and manners and respect far more useful and beneficial even to the point of having customers make me aware of things beforehand or watch my back... you never know who you are dealing with or who they know... so treat them how i want to be treated...
strict BUT fair.. but again..we are not the ones in that situation at that time..

andekwarhola · 21-04-2017 03:19PM

ZeitgeistGlee wrote: »

If people taught their children never to hit anyone (male or female) then this situation would probably never have arisen in the first place.

Just on a general aside, I now tell my kids that they can hit back in certain situations, like if another kid is physically bullying them. Obviously I also make it clear that they're not 'expected' to do it (as if it's some macho tickbox) just that I'll understand if they choose to defend themselves against somebody, say, a bully. Equally, it's understood that hitting in other contexts is not on.

Unfortunately life isn't simplistic and not everybody will be on the same sheet as good intentions when it comes to conflict and bullying.

beauf · 21-04-2017 03:24PM

the_syco wrote: »

If she had a diamond ring on the hand that she swung with, and it made contact, it would have done a LOT of damage.

Also, had he restrained her, ...

....maybe you are thinking of minority report....

Bouncer punches woman who tried to punch him.

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