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Near misses - mod warning 22/04 - see OP/post 822

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Comments

  • #452
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,688 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    one easy one is why the gardai don't have ANPR systems in their cars to spot insurance or tax defaulters; at the moment, you can drive around in complete impunity really if you're not taxed or insured.

    Agreed and loads are ..old cars too. Expired NCT's. Worst case the car gets confiscated. If it's only worth a few hundred Euro, it's a disposable car and worth the risk.

    Meanwhile in the UK they have introduced average speed recording on one section of (I think tolled) motorway. Again, easy to do with ANPR.


  • #453
    ThisRegard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,833 ✭✭✭✭ThisRegard


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    one easy one is why the gardai don't have ANPR systems in their cars to spot insurance or tax defaulters; at the moment, you can drive around in complete impunity really if you're not taxed or insured.

    They do, but not in every car.


  • #454
    punisher5112
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,633 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    one easy one is why the gardai don't have ANPR systems in their cars to spot insurance or tax defaulters; at the moment, you can drive around in complete impunity really if you're not taxed or insured.

    They do have anpr but insurance is still not updated correctly and also another issue is people driving cars that aren't insured but the person is.

    Anpr is on a good few of the traffic corps vehiclesand a handful of others but you are right it needs to be across them all to catch those that really shouldn't be on the road.


  • #455
    Chiparus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭Chiparus


    The problem with the APNR was that cars were seized that were insured , in a typical " computer says no" where the data was incorrect.

    Pretty terrible if you are law abiding and suddenly left with your family on the side of the road.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/garda-it-system-suspended-over-insurance-errors-31192839.html


  • #456
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,333 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    As least the PSNI are doing more than our useless Gardai:

    2mmutud.jpg


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  • #457
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,323 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Chiparus wrote: »
    The problem with the APNR was that cars were seized that were insured , in a typical " computer says no" where the data was incorrect.

    Pretty terrible if you are law abiding and suddenly left with your family on the side of the road.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/garda-it-system-suspended-over-insurance-errors-31192839.html
    quelle surprise.
    is there a similar issue with the data from NCT and motor tax databases? or were they only looking for insurance issues?


  • #458
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,688 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Chiparus wrote: »
    The problem with the APNR was that cars were seized that were insured , in a typical " computer says no" where the data was incorrect.

    Pretty terrible if you are law abiding and suddenly left with your family on the side of the road.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/garda-it-system-suspended-over-insurance-errors-31192839.html

    WTF is it that systems that work perfectly well in other developed countries do not or cannot work here....it's like we are in the land of the abacus and ruler when the world has moved to calculators and laser measurement.


  • #459
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Kaisr Sose wrote: »
    Agreed and loads are ..old cars too. Expired NCT's. Worst case the car gets confiscated. If it's only worth a few hundred Euro, it's a disposable car and worth the risk.

    Meanwhile in the UK they have introduced average speed recording on one section of (I think tolled) motorway. Again, easy to do with ANPR.

    Which is why I think insurance, tax & NCT should all be put onto the price of petrol. It would clear out the foliage a lot. Only those whose cars were dangerous would avoid the NCT if the first go-through was already paid for, and there would be no insurance-dodgers if you paid every time you bought petrol. Besides, the more you drove ( = the more carbon you produced) the more you'd pay. And an army of administrators could be spared for other work.


  • #460
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,090 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Which is why I think insurance, tax & NCT should all be put onto the price of petrol. It would clear out the foliage a lot. Only those whose cars were dangerous would avoid the NCT if the first go-through was already paid for, and there would be no insurance-dodgers if you paid every time you bought petrol. Besides, the more you drove ( = the more carbon you produced) the more you'd pay. And an army of administrators could be spared for other work.
    I know this has been raised before and it happens in other countries but I don't understand how the insurance would work as we'd all be paying the same even though my insurance in typically about 10% of what a young male would be paying for a similar vehicle.


  • #461
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    I know this has been raised before and it happens in other countries but I don't understand how the insurance would work as we'd all be paying the same even though my insurance in typically about 10% of what a young male would be paying for a similar vehicle.

    In effect all would be paying somewhat less, since currently a good proportion of drivers don't have insurance; economies of scale would kick in.


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  • #462
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,090 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Chuchote wrote: »
    In effect all would be paying somewhat less, since currently a good proportion of drivers don't have insurance; economies of scale would kick in.
    I'd imagine claims would sky rocket too as people would be less concerned about a rise in premiums and will claim for stuff they wouldn't claim for under an individual policy.


  • #463
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,709 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    one easy one is why the gardai don't have ANPR systems in their cars to spot insurance or tax defaulters; at the moment, you can drive around in complete impunity really if you're not taxed or insured.
    There was a PQ last year which noted that they have ANPR in about 1/3 of Garda cars.


  • #464
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    I'd imagine claims would sky rocket too as people would be less concerned about a rise in premiums and will claim for stuff they wouldn't claim for under an individual policy.

    I get the impression that people are getting so annoyed at the frivolous claims ("I slipped on a drop of mayonnaise and I'm now unable to dance the tango, gimme sixty grand") that there's about to be a stark backlash against entertaining them.

    By the way, Wishbone Ash, it happens in other countries? How does it work there? I wasn't aware of this. But to take a similar Irish scamology, in France, there's only one lawyer - the notary - involved in buying and selling the house, and I'm told stamp duty is a fraction of what's paid here as well.


  • #465
    punisher5112
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,633 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    This thing about add it to fuel won't work as how would you get the charge from EV ?


  • #466
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    This thing about add it to fuel won't work as how would you get the charge from EV ?

    EV? Oh, Electric Vehicles? How do people currently pay for their electric charge? (Obviously, since these are less polluting, the 'road tax' element would be lower.)


  • #467
    punisher5112
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,633 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Chuchote wrote: »
    EV? Oh, Electric Vehicles? How do people currently pay for their electric charge? (Obviously, since these are less polluting, the 'road tax' element would be lower.)

    Road tax is €120 and free charge on street and even fast chargers also.

    If you charge at home you get if buying new a charge point installed and a night meter so you get night rate if charged from 11pm to 8am and summer is 12am to 9 am.

    So quite a lot pay nothing as all away from home charging is free.


  • #468
    Kaisr Sose
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,688 ✭✭✭Kaisr Sose


    Chuchote wrote: »
    In effect all would be paying somewhat less, since currently a good proportion of drivers don't have insurance; economies of scale would kick in.

    But how do you reward good /safe low risk drivers or load the policies of dangerous drivers?? What about those driving on laundered diesel? What about cross land border fuel purchases?

    It's an interesting concept though. I think it should be there for road tax...drive more or consume more , pay more. Polluter pays concept.


  • #469
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Kaisr Sose wrote: »
    But how do you reward good /safe low risk drivers or load the policies of dangerous drivers?? What about those driving on laundered diesel? What about cross land border fuel purchases?

    It's an interesting concept though. I think it should be there for road tax...drive more or consume more , pay more. Polluter pays concept.

    Laundered diesel - the whole expensive nonsense of dyeing diesel and checking for it could be ended by simply setting up a system where farmers had special cards to buy diesel at a cheaper rate for agricultural use.


  • #470
    cython
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭cython


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Laundered diesel - the whole expensive nonsense of dyeing diesel and checking for it could be ended by simply setting up a system where farmers had special cards to buy diesel at a cheaper rate for agricultural use.

    Some/all of said farmers would then use it for non-agri use with impunity and could also top up their family and friends' vehicles with the same stuff. This is a huge part of why we have marked diesel to begin with, so removing the differentiator and just giving them those cards is too open to abuse.


  • #471
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    cython wrote: »
    Some/all of said farmers would then use it for non-agri use with impunity and could also top up their family and friends' vehicles with the same stuff. This is a huge part of why we have marked diesel to begin with, so removing the differentiator and just giving them those cards is too open to abuse.

    Not at all; it would easy enough for Department of Agriculture people on the ground to calculate how much fuel would be used and give an allowance for that alone.


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  • #472
    HivemindXX
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭HivemindXX


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Not at all; it would easy enough for Department of Agriculture people on the ground to calculate how much fuel would be used and give an allowance for that alone.

    Where do you think all the laundered diesel comes from in the first place? If it was 'easy enough' to catch someone using more fuel than they should then there would be no issue finding who is providing all the marked diesel that gets laundered.


  • #473
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,090 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Not at all; it would easy enough for Department of Agriculture ....
    It's not just for Agricultural work - can also be legally used in some construction vehicles and inland marine vessels.


  • #474
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    It's an odd idea, when you come to think of it, that one group can get a fuel cheaper than another! Wouldn't it be more appropriate for this to be dealt with as a tax relief, say?


  • #475
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,090 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Chuchote wrote: »
    It's an odd idea, when you come to think of it, that one group can get a fuel cheaper than another! Wouldn't it be more appropriate for this to be dealt with as a tax relief, say?
    It probably stems from an era when many farmers were tax exempt due to low incomes. You can't give tax relief if no/little tax is paid.


  • #476
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,369 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    jive wrote: »
    They should run an ad campaign on close overtaking as it's no joke and it's fairly prevalent. I think if people could see it from a cyclists POV they would be more considerate, I'm sure most of them do it out of ignorance rather than any kind of malice.

    If they can run a campaign with some guys tonsils talking absolute tosh then surely they can run a campaign for this which is a genuine issue.

    Going out to Howth last Saturday with the mammy, her driving, it was frightening to see a non-cyclists view on what safe overtaking distance is...that and her complaining about two cyclists going two abreast (and in this case the cyclist on the inside couldn't have been any more than 12!)
    She was adamant that she was passing safely. She wasn't.

    This also just came up on my youtube feed

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFHUDYI7tic


  • #477
    ED E
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,170 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Banned for life, as they have no respect for it.


  • #478
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 52,323 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    I know this has been raised before and it happens in other countries but I don't understand how the insurance would work as we'd all be paying the same even though my insurance in typically about 10% of what a young male would be paying for a similar vehicle.
    AFAIK in countries which have this system, only third party insurance is added to fuel costs. Motorists would still generally take out insurance for fire, theft and convert for self.


  • #479
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,090 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    AFAIK in countries which have this system, only third party insurance is added to fuel costs. Motorists would still generally take out insurance for fire, theft and convert for self.
    But 3rd party insurance comprises most of the cost of a comprehensive policy - there's not that much difference between the two. Most young lads can only get a quote for 3rd party anyway so that doesn't solve my query regarding low/high risk drivers paying the same through fuel.


  • #480
    Chuchote
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭Chuchote


    Wishbone Ash wrote: »
    But 3rd party insurance comprises most of the cost of a comprehensive policy - there's not that much difference between the two. Most young lads can only get a quote for 3rd party anyway so that doesn't solve my query regarding low/high risk drivers paying the same through fuel.

    Low vs high risk became a nonsense when women - statistically safer drivers - lost their cheaper insurance because of "equality", whereas older drivers can be charged higher insurance because of - oh, remind me what it's because of, if it isn't equality?


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  • #481
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,709 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Chuchote wrote: »
    Low vs high risk became a nonsense when women - statistically safer drivers - lost their cheaper insurance because of "equality", whereas older drivers can be charged higher insurance because of - oh, remind me what it's because of, if it isn't equality?

    From https://www.ihrec.ie/download/pdf/ihrec_equal_status_rights_explained.pdf

    Insurance
    This covers annuities, pensions, insurance policies, and so on. Life insurance policies are based on ‘risk’. Insurance companies decide how much to charge you for your policy based on what kind of ‘risk’ you are.

    Example
    If you have a strong family history of a particular illness, you might be considered ‘high’ risk and have to pay more for life assurance than somebody else.

    This kind of different treatment is allowed if the differences are based on proper risk assessment, research and statistics. However, EU law does not permit different treatment in relation to insurance on the gender and race ground


This discussion has been closed.
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