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The 109a Bus Thread

13

Comments

  • #62
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,832 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    paulboland wrote: »
    It does sometimes as I used to work in swords

    The 33 never ever has gone to Dublin Airport, that I can assure you.

    The only Dublin Bus services that have served Dublin Airport in the last few 4 or 5 years from the city center are the 16/41/102/747/757 along with Aircoach 700 and 702/703 at the Point.
    Cavan/Kells/Navan population what do you think they woukd say if they was deprived of a direct bus service to Airport.

    The vast majority of north Dublin doesn't have a direct bus to the Airport.

    Blanchardstown is 16km to Dublin Airport but you have to go away from the airport to go back in and it takes 70-90 mins for such a small distance depending on the time of day.

    Kells is 70km away and only takes between 80-95 minutes depending on the time of day and has a direct route.
    Lot of workers from navan start work from 7.00 in the morning or from 19.00 at night
    If 109A was not operating you could not get to work for 7.00 or before without the 109A
    You be late for work if you had to get to Dublin first and then to Ashbourne

    Many many people in Ireland do not have a direct bus from their door to their workplace, I lived in 3 different areas and worked for four different companies and I never had a direct link, I always needed to make one change apart from one job.


  • #63
    paulboland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭paulboland


    hots wrote: »
    Why on earth did they extend the 109A out to 24hr?? Madness and I relied on it for 5 years... As is so often the case there is an obvious problem and a mad solution is put in place.

    Extending the rail to Navan would be ideal, you could have some sort of local service going off the end of that then to serve the towns I would have thought?

    109A has been a great service but for most of my time on it I never saw a bus more than 25% full... to add more services onto it makes no sense at all.
    A lot work night shifts in Ashbourne and Dublin Airport and you have passengers needing to goto to and from Dublin Airport after midnight

    A lot of industrial business in both areas working shifts over 24 hours
    You got off a flight at 2am how to you get home if no bus to Navan provided


  • #64
    hots
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭hots


    paulboland wrote: »
    A lot work night shifts in Ashbourne and Dublin Airport and you have passengers needing to goto to and from Dublin Airport after midnight

    A lot of industrial business in both areas working shifts over 24 hours
    You got off a flight at 2am how to you get home if no bus to Navan provided

    Fair... but should we provide 24 hour services to every town so? And in between every town of Ashbourne and Navan's size? It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, and at the very least and hourly service is far too much... I agree Navan needs servicing but it's just a waste of resources that could be better used elsewhere when it's that much no?


  • #65
    MJohnston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,724 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    paulboland wrote: »
    A lot work night shifts in Ashbourne and Dublin Airport and you have passengers needing to goto to and from Dublin Airport after midnight

    A lot of industrial business in both areas working shifts over 24 hours
    You got off a flight at 2am how to you get home if no bus to Navan provided

    The ratio of cars to households in Ireland is about 1.2 cars per house, so most Navanians would presumably drive home.


  • #66
    paulboland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭paulboland


    devnull wrote: »
    The 33 never ever has gone to Dublin Airport, that I can assure you.

    The only Dublin Bus services that have served Dublin Airport in the last few 4 or 5 years from the city center are the 16/41/102/747/757 along with Aircoach 700 and 702/703 at the Point.



    The vast majority of north Dublin doesn't have a direct bus to the Airport.

    Blanchardstown is 16km to Dublin Airport but you have to go away from the airport to go back in and it takes 70-90 mins for such a small distance depending on the time of day.

    Kells is 70km away and only takes between 80-95 minutes depending on the time of day and has a direct route.



    Many many people in Ireland do not have a direct bus from their door to their workplace, I lived in 3 different areas and worked for four different companies and I never had a direct link, I always needed to make one change apart from one job.
    And what bus do they use if it don't operate after midnight

    109 bus for example last bus from navan to Dublin is 23.05 and first bus from Dublin is not till 5.30

    If you want to get to Ashbourne or Dublin Airport by 23.00 or after you can't without the 109A


    Dublin passengers can get to Dublin Airport 24/7 with Aircoach

    Why should Cavan/Kells/Navan/Dunshaughlin /Rathoth /Ashbourne not have the same service


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  • #67
    hots
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭hots


    paulboland wrote: »
    Why should Cavan/Kells/Navan/Dunshaughlin /Rathoth /Ashbourne not have the same service

    Because it isn't economical? If you choose to live out in Cavan maybe you won't get the same services as somewhere central with a high population density and sufficient demand for said services?


  • #68
    paulboland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭paulboland


    devnull wrote: »
    The 33 never ever has gone to Dublin Airport, that I can assure you.

    The only Dublin Bus services that have served Dublin Airport in the last few 4 or 5 years from the city center are the 16/41/102/747/757 along with Aircoach 700 and 702/703 at the Point.



    The vast majority of north Dublin doesn't have a direct bus to the Airport.

    Blanchardstown is 16km to Dublin Airport but you have to go away from the airport to go back in and it takes 70-90 mins for such a small distance depending on the time of day.

    Kells is 70km away and only takes between 80-95 minutes depending on the time of day and has a direct route.



    Many many people in Ireland do not have a direct bus from their door to their workplace, I lived in 3 different areas and worked for four different companies and I never had a direct link, I always needed to make one change apart from one job.
    Dublin Bus 33 did back in the 80's pass through the airport I was on the bus it was only 1 bus in the morning it might have changed since then but back then 1 bus 100%

    Your quote Dublin has 8 buses serving Dublin Airport

    Cavan/Kells/Navan/Dunshaughlin/Rathoth/Ashbourne has 1 bus to the Airport

    Do you want to deprive 1 bus service to all that population


  • #69
    n97 mini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    hots wrote: »
    Why on earth did they extend the 109A out to 24hr?? Madness and I relied on it for 5 years... As is so often the case there is an obvious problem and a mad solution is put in place.

    Extending the rail to Navan would be ideal, you could have some sort of local service going off the end of that then to serve the towns I would have thought?

    109A has been a great service but for most of my time on it I never saw a bus more than 25% full... to add more services onto it makes no sense at all.

    It is mind boggling that places like Ashbourne and Navan have better access to Dublin and the airport than places like Clondalkin, Tallaght, Lucan, Ballyfermot, Blanchardstown, Swords, Malahide, to name a small few.


  • #70
    Polar101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,040 ✭✭✭Polar101


    I live about 4 km from Blanchardstown. Yesterday I used this amazing public transport service our area has, left the airport at 12:10 and arrived home at 1.45 - so that was 95 minutes on two buses and a train. This is 'off-peak', it would generally take longer as the traffic can be a lot worse. Would be happy to have something like 109a instead of all this.


  • #71
    paulboland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭paulboland


    hots wrote: »
    Because it isn't economical? If you choose to live out in Cavan maybe you won't get the same services as somewhere central with a high population density and sufficient demand for said services?
    Goto to these counties and tell them in person they don't need a bus service to Dublin Airport see what response you woukd get and what do you think they woukd say to you

    This is also why 109A is a PSO route
    The purpose of PSO route is because commercial operator woukd not provide the service

    Routes that are very profitable don't need to be PSO but it has its dangers if profits drop timetable gets cut


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  • #72
    MJohnston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,724 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    paulboland wrote: »
    Goto to these counties and tell them in person they don't need a bus service to Dublin Airport see what response you woukd get and what do you think they woukd say to you

    This is also why 109A is a PSO route
    The purpose of PSO route is because commercial operator woukd not provide the service

    Routes that are very profitable don't need to be PSO but it has its dangers if profits drop timetable gets cut

    You can't have it both ways - either 109A serves an unpopular route and therefore needs to be PSO, or it serves a busy route and doesn't need to be PSO.


  • #73
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,832 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    paulboland wrote: »
    And what bus do they use if it don't operate after midnight

    109 bus for example last bus from navan to Dublin is 23.05 and first bus from Dublin is not till 5.30

    The vast majority of buses in Dublin do not start until 6.00 or 6.30.

    If you want to get to Ashbourne or Dublin Airport by 23.00 or after you can't without the 109A[/quote]

    I could list about 20 Suburbs of Dublin who have the same problem and even more that don't have a direct bus route to the airport.
    Dublin passengers can get to Dublin Airport 24/7 with Aircoach.

    You do realise that Aircoach only serves about half of the South East of the city and the city center?

    Dublin is a big place.
    Why should Cavan/Kells/Navan/Dunshaughlin /Rathoth /Ashbourne not have the same service

    It has a better service than the vast majority of Dublin.


  • #74
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,832 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    paulboland wrote: »
    Your quote Dublin has 8 buses serving Dublin Airport

    Cavan/Kells/Navan/Dunshaughlin/Rathoth/Ashbourne has 1 bus to the Airport

    Do you want to deprive 1 bus service to all that population

    The majority of Dublin doesn't have any airport bus let alone a 24 hour one.

    8 Buses serving Dublin Airport is no use if they are all a long way away from you.


  • #75
    n97 mini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    devnull wrote: »
    You do realise that Aircoach only serves about half of the South of the city

    Half is a major stretch. Probably closer to 10%.


  • #76
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,832 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    n97 mini wrote: »
    Half is a major stretch. Probably closer to 10%.

    I missed out the word East as in South East by mistake - cheers for the heads up!


  • #77
    paulboland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭paulboland


    devnull wrote: »
    The majority of Dublin doesn't have any airport bus let alone a 24 hour one.

    8 Buses serving Dublin Airport is no use if they are all a long way away from you.

    So is your opinion the population of Cavan/Kells/Navan/Dunshaughlin/Rathoth/Ashbourne and connecting towns servicing these locations as well as there is more town than I not listed that use this bus a lot goto Navan to use the service as well have no bus service at all

    What do you think the opinion of Co Meath population would be and if I brought it to their attention and they replied on this thread

    I would agree more services is needed in Dublin suberbs for transport

    But all we have is just 1 bus and is essential to that community


  • #78
    hots
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭hots


    paulboland wrote: »
    Goto to these counties and tell them in person they don't need a bus service to Dublin Airport see what response you woukd get and what do you think they woukd say to you

    This is also why 109A is a PSO route
    The purpose of PSO route is because commercial operator woukd not provide the service

    Routes that are very profitable don't need to be PSO but it has its dangers if profits drop timetable gets cut

    I'm from the county myself! I'll have a chat in the pub after I get the train to M3 and a lift beyond that tomorrow...

    In fairness I haven't even slightly suggested they don't need one, just they they are being way way over served. You have to cater for the majority as much as possible, not the 2 lads who get the 4:20am bus. The idea for any mode of transport (no matter who is paying for it), is to keep it running as efficiently and as close to capacity as possible surely...


  • #79
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,832 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    paulboland wrote: »
    So is your opinion the population of Cavan/Kells/Navan/Dunshaughlin/Rathoth/Ashbourne and connecting towns servicing these locations as well as there is more town than I not listed that use this bus a lot goto Navan to use the service as well have no bus service at all

    I never said they should have no bus.


  • #80
    paulboland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭paulboland


    hots wrote: »
    I'm from the county myself! I'll have a chat in the pub after I get the train to M3 and a lift beyond that tomorrow...

    In fairness I haven't even slightly suggested they don't need one, just they they are being way way over served. You have to cater for the majority as much as possible, not the 2 lads who get the 4:20am bus. The idea for any mode of transport (no matter who is paying for it), is to keep it running as efficiently and as close to capacity as possible surely...

    If that happened we would not need PSO routes or public funding of bus services but reality is it's needed as public transport
    The routes that make a profit assist the routes that don't that's the purpose of PSO routes

    Best to ask no car users as in public who only have public transport as their method of transport you get more useful reply
    Lot of students and workers and edelery who need public transport to get from A to B


  • #81
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,832 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    paulboland wrote: »
    If that happened we would not need PSO routes or public funding of bus services but reality is it's needed as public transport
    The routes that make a profit assist the routes that don't that's the purpose of PSO routes

    Best to ask no car users as in public who only have public transport as their method of transport you get more useful reply
    Lot of students and workers and edelery who need public transport to get from A to B

    The problem is you cannot run a direct bus route 24 hours a day for every person in the state otherwise you'd have three times as many buses, a lot of them only carrying one or two people every journey and you'd spend almost a billion on subsidy.

    By the way, I use public transport all of the time and just speak from my experience of being interested in it and posting on this board for a good number of years now


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  • #82
    hots
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭hots


    paulboland wrote: »
    If that happened we would not need PSO routes or public funding of bus services but reality is it's needed as public transport
    The routes that make a profit assist the routes that don't that's the purpose of PSO routes

    Best to ask no car users as in public who only have public transport as their method of transport you get more useful reply
    Lot of students and workers and edelery who need public transport to get from A to B

    Fortunately I only have to look in the mirror, I don't drive, 100% public transport.

    For every wasted route run through Navan it's a missed chance to put it through somewhere that needs it more. If there's buses run through the night with 1 guy on it would you not be in favour or rerouting it elsewhere that is less served?


  • #83
    hots
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭hots


    Again, just for clarity, I think Navan is definitely under-served for it's size & growth... I'd just rather see resources used efficiently. The train line being extended would be a massive boost for the area.


  • #84
    n97 mini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    paulboland wrote: »
    There still woukd be a bus service from navan to Ashbourne to Dublin Airport unless train service ran 24 hours and included Navan to Ashbourne to Dublin Airport

    Train service would not be 24 hours I doubt so a bus service would continue
    It would still be from Navan to Ashbourne bus service not a feeder bus from outside navan

    I've asked 3 times, and you've dodged answering each time.

    So I'll ask a fourth and final time: if the train line from M3 Parkway to Navan (via Dunshaughlin and Kilmessan) was to be reopened would you accept reductions in the 109/109A service?


  • #85
    paulboland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭paulboland


    hots wrote: »
    Fortunately I only have to look in the mirror, I don't drive, 100% public transport.

    For every wasted route run through Navan it's a missed chance to put it through somewhere that needs it more. If there's buses run through the night with 1 guy on it would you not be in favour or rerouting it elsewhere that is less served?
    A bus route is both ways round trip
    Yes at times you will have very little passengers on a bus journey but a outward or return can be more

    The day time in morning and evenings are close to full you can't just say sorry to the others who need public transport in off peak hours your custom is not wanted it's about servicing the community during busy and not busy times

    A lot of night workers who do night shifts off peak travel is essential to them and night shifts hours varies as to start and finish

    I myself work 19.00 to 07.00

    You also get 109A very busy in holiday season during the night both ways

    One night you can yes have very little passengers but next day can be busy it can vary

    I myself would not like to be coming from Dublin Airport in the morning around 2am to find no bus service till 5am that be a pain


  • #86
    paulboland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭paulboland


    n97 mini wrote: »
    I've asked 3 times, and you've dodged answering each time.

    So I'll ask a fourth and final time: if the train line from M3 Parkway to Navan (via Dunshaughlin and Kilmessan) was to be reopened would you accept reductions in the 109/109A service?
    Not the 109A I already answered you on that unless it covered as a train service it covered Rathoth and Ashbourne and Dublin Airport

    109 could have reduced service but only if the number of passengers was reduced a lot you be surprised as to how full the 109 is in the mornings you can often have to wait for another bus I used to work in Dublin and some days I had to wait until. Third bus arrived before I got on a bus

    A train service woukd help the demand the flow of passengers from Cavan/Kells/Navan is very high numbers in peak times
    Both Bus and Train service during peak hours would supply both and woukd have an increased use as there woukd be less using a car as transport

    The use of a train service in the mornings woukd not mean less bus use

    During the later part of the day from 10am to 3pm you could most likely cut the 109 service but you have to remember Kells and Cavan woukd still need the bus service unless they also got a train service


  • #87
    hots
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,200 ✭✭✭hots


    paulboland wrote: »
    A bus route is both ways round trip
    Yes at times you will have very little passengers on a bus journey but a outward or return can be more

    The day time in morning and evenings are close to full you can't just say sorry to the others who need public transport in off peak hours your custom is not wanted it's about servicing the community during busy and not busy times

    A lot of night workers who do night shifts off peak travel is essential to them and night shifts hours varies as to start and finish

    I myself work 19.00 to 07.00

    You also get 109A very busy in holiday season during the night both ways

    One night you can yes have very little passengers but next day can be busy it can vary

    I myself would not like to be coming from Dublin Airport in the morning around 2am to find no bus service till 5am that be a pain


    You sound like a local politician with those views. You have to look at the bigger picture, it's not just about Navan/Dunshaughlin...

    If you're working unconventional hours, living in away from your employment and have no mode of personal transport you're going to have to expect an element of inconvenience.

    And to be honest if you come into an airport at 2am and want to get to a rural town... yup that's going to be a pain.


  • #88
    mugsymugsy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,569 ✭✭✭mugsymugsy


    Just Google mapped it. If i was at Dublin airport and wanted to go to dunshaughlin it would take 46 mins getting the 109a though i would have to wait for the hourly service. If i wanted to go to blanchardstown it would be 52 mins ....But this would require me to wait till 5:39 and get a bus + train.

    Crazy transport decisions - is there anymore demand from dunshaughlin than blanch. I'm sure people in blanch would love an hourly pso service as well.


  • #89
    paulboland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭paulboland


    mugsymugsy wrote: »
    Just Google mapped it. If i was at Dublin airport and wanted to go to dunshaughlin it would take 46 mins getting the 109a though i would have to wait for the hourly service. If i wanted to go to blanchardstown it would be 52 mins ....But this would require me to wait till 5:39 and get a bus + train.

    Crazy transport decisions - is there anymore demand from dunshaughlin than blanch. I'm sure people in blanch would love an hourly pso service as well.
    The 109A is for customers is from Kells to Dublin Airport covering in-between Navan/Rathoth/Ashbourne you also have other towns communter going to Navan from other Co Meath locations to get the 109A including Cavan commuters going to Navan to get the 109A by using the 109

    The 109A it don't start at Dunshaughlin it has a pick up and drop of stop

    109 and 109A is not the same bus
    It takes 40 to 50 min to get from Ashbourne to Navan on the 109A
    It's takes nearly 2 hours from Kells to Dublin Airport sometimes
    Navan to Dublin Airport takes on average 1.30 min or more
    I even got a bus from navan to Ashbourne that takes 55 min due to traffic delays coming from Kells

    I get my bus at from Navan at 18.10 sometimes I don't arrive in Ashbourne until 18.55 or 19.00
    I use this bus 8 times a week
    It can be as quick as 40 min to 1 hour just to get from navan to Ashbourne nevermind Dublin Airport the bus timetable is not very accurate to actual journey times


  • #90
    mugsymugsy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,569 ✭✭✭mugsymugsy


    You missed the point - i know it serves more than just dunshaughlin. What is the justification for an hourly 24/7 109a route? Why is there not an hourly route that serves west Dublin through the night from the airport? Would love to see the volume it carriers on that route through the night. By your logic we should have a 24/7 hourly bus network that connects towns across ireland.


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  • #91
    paulboland
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭paulboland


    mugsymugsy wrote: »
    You missed the point - i know it serves more than just dunshaughlin. What is the justification for an hourly 24/7 109a route? Why is there not an hourly route that serves west Dublin through the night from the airport? Would love to see the volume it carriers on that route through the night. By your logic we should have a 24/7 hourly bus network that connects towns across ireland.
    Where in West Dublin to you live


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