do you care much for manners/etiquette?

The Fake Sheikh wrote: »

Cutlery etiquette is a load of pretentious bollox. As long as you get the food to your mouth I don't care what spoon or fork you're using, or what hand it's in.

Couldn't agree with that Sheik, diners who hold their cutlery like pens do my head in to be honest.

Calling 'common sense' "pretentious bollox" kind of defines the man.

You see, there are reasons for these things, like there are reasons for the etiquette we have for say queuing,driving, personal interaction, parking and hundreds of others.

It's to do things in a fashion which least impinges on others and show respect for others.

Unfortunately there certainly is a diminution in the respect for these tried and trusted mores, as some people adopt a selfish and boorish attitude to manners as evidenced the numerous 'chip shop rows' and serious assaults over small things.

All respect and concern for others starts from a small base.

Calling 'cutlery etiquette' " pretentious bollox" for me is not a good start.

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Couldn't agree with that Sheik, diners who hold their cutlery like pens do my head in to be honest.

Calling 'common sense' "pretentious bollox" kind of defines the man.

You see, there are reasons for these things, like there are reasons for the etiquette we have for say queuing,driving, personal interaction, parking and hundreds of others.

It's to do things in a fashion which least impinges on others and show respect for others.

Unfortunately there certainly is a diminution in the respect for these tried and trusted mores, as some people adopt a selfish and boorish attitude to manners as evidenced the numerous 'chip shop rows' and serious assaults over small things.

All respect and concern for others starts from a small base.

Calling 'cutlery etiquette' " pretentious bollox" for me is not a good start.

That says more about you than the person holding the cutlery in a way that you think to be wrong.

In what possible way could someone sitting across from you holding a fork like a pen affect you?

The examples of queing, driving, parking etc I don't oppose. They directly affect others. Holding a fork like a pen does not unless you subscribe to pretentious bollox IMO.

Permabear wrote: »

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I've always done that. I know it's "incorrect" and my parents tried to train me out of it, but it's just the easiest way for me and it doesn't affect others.

Regarding general manners/etiquette, the concept is that there's a basic set of guidelines that "everyone" in a group knows and follows to ensure that no-one is made to feel awkward. Using those guidelines to make someone feel awkward is the height of rudeness in itself and it doesn't matter which fork you use to do it, it's a lot ruder than merely using the wrong fork!

I'm pro-manners. Etiquette is less important to me as it's less important to everyone getting along in society now. Which fork is which interests me not, although I'll make a general effort to use the right one in the odd case where it's relevant.* Etiquette mostly seems to get used (rudely) to smack down others (I can think of a couple of etiquette sites that really need it beating in to them that Manners Are Not A Weapon). But I'm pro-courtesy, pro-respect and pro-politeness.

*I wouldn't know a fish fork if it bit me.

Robsweezie wrote: »

Is it something you watch out for, and measure someone on?

I wouldn't care for the finer details like what way you hold your cutlery at the dinner table, but stuff like cleaning up after yourself, paying back what you owe, apologizing when you've done wrong, those things help me make an overall judgement on a person.

Personally sick to death of wealthy business types in the middle of conversation sticking their hands down the back of their pants only to pull their hand back up triumphantly and right in front of you raise their hand up and take a sniff going gooey eyed like they are pulling from a huge bong. Sick of seeing that.

I hold the door for anyone within reasonable distance, considering it polite to do so.  Totally ruins it when I get blanked by those availing of the courtesy.  In fact, I'm likely to mutter some insult thereafter about the door and one's arse in future.

Well, define manners. Manners like how to hold a knife and fork or stupid stuff like that, not at all. Being polite, kind, courteous, very important to me personallty. It's not even a case of chivalry or being old fashioned, its just being a proper human being.

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

So Miles can we take it that dining out with someone who holds their knife and fork like 'a dagger' and attacks their meal in stabbing actions would not register with you at all ?.

I wouldn't like to be sitting beside a diner like that, a visit to the dry cleaners or maybe the hospital could be the outcome.

You see, if we profess to not being bothered about how people hold a knife and fork then we must admit that it's free for all and there are no 'rules' or etiquette considerations at all to be considered.

I wouldn't be watching anyone eat to notice such a thing, since staring at people eating is extremely rude.

Shenshen wrote: »

My father once told me while we were eating out in a restaurant that the way I was using the cutlery was an insult to the chef who had prepared out meal. By using a knife to cut through some of my food I was sending the message that it was too hard to break open with my fork, and therefore hadn't been prepared properly.

I've taken that onboard and am very considerate about what cutlery I use now, and how I use it.

I don't really mind how people hold their cutlery - there are far too many regional variations to that, people here hold it very different from people in Germany, for example - but someone taking a steak knife to a bit of fish is sending out the message that the food they've been given is cooked wrong.
While someone trying to cut a steak with a fish knife might find himself unconsciously performing a bit of slapstick.

that's taking it too far really

Permabear wrote: »

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I've been in the US for months on end - and I witnessed plenty of people eating in different ways..

fork in the left hand knife always in the right
picking up and putting the knife down as you mentioned
and others not using a knife at all

pretty much what you'd see here in any restaurant in town

I'm fine with whatever as long as someone isn't doing that ridiculous holding food down with the knife and pulling/tearing with the fork action.

My best mate has always done that - we've talked about it jovially. He said that's how his mother did it and he's not arsed enough to change now.

Yes, quite. Manners maketh the man.

Shenshen wrote: »

Why?

Table manners for me are for the comfort and enjoyment of those dining with you and around you..

Not supposing some offence for a chef who in most cases can't even see you..

I'd hazard a guess that most chefs would be more offended by plates being returned uneaten than whether you took a knife to a bit of fish. They wouldn't take solace in you using your fork to take the fish apart prior to you returning it uneaten now would they?

lawred2 wrote: »

Table manners for me are for the comfort and enjoyment of those dining with you and around you..

Not supposing some offence for a chef who in most cases can't even see you..

I'd hazard a guess that most chefs would be more offended by plates being returned uneaten than whether you took a knife to a bit of fish. They wouldn't take solace in you using your fork to take the fish apart prior to you returning it uneaten now would they?

Well, that was another thing not to be done, leave too much food on the plate. You leave 1 bite, to show that the size was just right for you, but no more.

And let's face it, most of us usually consume their meals together with the person who has prepared it most days of the week, and surely you'd want them to know that they're a good cook, too?
As I'm usually the one to cook the food, being able to eat it the way it's intended is something I aim for anyway