Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

isnottheword · 09-04-2017 09:31PM

unkel wrote: »

I thought this was a bit of a myth that has long been dispelled?

And don't pretty much all EVs come with 8 year warranties on the battery? I wouldn't even hesitate fast charging my car 5 times a day if I felt like it. Aren't there loads of Leaf taxis that have been charging numerous times a day for years (without issue)?

I'm not sure if we have a definitive answer on this? If you have definitive proof of same, do you have a link? Despite that, it was just one of a range of reasons why we should still retain SCP's for the time being at least.

Water John · 09-04-2017 09:35PM

I have no problem retaining the SCPs. I just don't see the point of designing a national public charging plan that includes the installation of many more.
If shopping malls etc want to install them, fine.
I wouldn't waste public money on them. Maybe as you say, kerbside ones near apartments.

09-04-2017 09:36PM

unkel wrote: »

We need to look forward, not back. 22kW public AC charging might have been ok a few years back (even if most cars couldn't use it), we need 300-400kW DC chargers going forward

Chargers that charge up a 60KwH battery from 20-90% in not a lot more than 5 minutes. Just like people get petrol / diesel now. That's what we need at all national roads and motorways every 40km or so by 2022. Same as you would see petrol service stations on motorways everywhere else in the world - not like in Ireland where until recently there were no service stations on motorways :eek:

BTW 3rd fast charge done in 3 days just now. My 10 year old did the charging

We need both AC and DC, when you don't need to charge in the shortest possible time , you'll use AC and when you do need to charge in the shortest possible time you'll use DC.

The AC network will remove the burden on the DC network and you won't have to bother of waiting at a DC point or waiting for someone else to finish.

unkel · 09-04-2017 09:38PM

I've no proof but aren't the warranties testament that batteries do not deteriorate as much as people thought 5-10 years ago? I believe in the US, the Ioniq comes with a lifetime battery warranty!!!

Edit - Water John took the words out of my mouth there. Couldn't agree more

isnottheword · 09-04-2017 09:39PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The AC network will remove the burden on the DC network and you won't have to bother of waiting at a DC point or waiting for someone else to finish.

From what I understand, the ESB have some difficulty getting sites for FCP's given that they don't always have the available power for them. With that, for the time being, SCP's should stay a part of the equation until they get past that (and whilst we wait for the full rollout and availability - to all - of EV's with 300-400KM range.

isnottheword · 09-04-2017 09:42PM

unkel wrote: »

I've no proof but aren't the warranties testament that batteries do not deteriorate as much as people thought 5-10 years ago? I believe in the US, the Ioniq comes with a lifetime battery warranty!!!

Yup - and I had heard likewise - but have never seen definitive data to support that. Anyways, it's only one in a whole spectrum of points to justify the retention of SCP as part of a mix of solutions right now.

unkel wrote: »

Edit - Water John took the words out of my mouth there. Couldn't agree more

I don't disagree with what he just stated. I'm not suggesting that they be primary part of the ongoing public charging strategy - but that they are a significant element of the public charging infrastructure in the short-medium term (alongside other options).

unkel · 09-04-2017 09:42PM

isnottheword wrote: »

From what I understand, the ESB have some difficulty getting sites for FCP's given that they don't always have the available power for them.

That should be government business to make it happen.

I'd rather the 200 million or so that Ireland pays every year in fines / penalties because we are dirty, be invested in a network of fast chargers.

isnottheword · 09-04-2017 09:48PM

unkel wrote: »

That should be government business to make it happen. I'd rather the 200 million or so that Ireland pays every year in fines / penalties because we are dirty, be invested in a network of fast chargers.

I don't want to appear as settling for second best but we have to acknowledge the country we live in. Ideally, I'd like Ireland to have a far more expansive network of FCP's. Ultimately, we will get what we need. It's what happens in between now and that happening that concerns me. Take the rollout of broadband in Ireland by comparison with other countries as a case in point. If people can't tolerate that, then they [ en-masse ] better see to better governance in Ireland generally (was that a unicorn that just flew past my window....).

unkel · 09-04-2017 09:54PM

isnottheword wrote: »

Ultimately, we will get what we need.

That's not the way this should work. It makes good business sense to invest (and increase incentives, basically whatever we can to promote EV ownership punish diesel ownership) so we don't have to pay fines anymore going forward.

€200 million a year goes a long way in this. We might have to invest that 5 years in a row, but we'll never pay the fine again after that, so the payback time of 5 years is an excellent investment. Making this figure up of course, but it would certainly be worthwhile to have this properly investigated

isnottheword · 09-04-2017 09:57PM

unkel wrote: »

That's not the way this should work.

I agree completely but lets be realistic - that's not where we're at. There are probably plenty of decent comparisons but broadband rollout I think is fitting. We are getting there - but we are lagging behind in getting there.

09-04-2017 09:59PM

The current leaf battery for instance is a huge improvement over the original however, everything has an effect, time itself, how hard your drive, how hard you brake, how many times you charge, discharge, fast charging and also how hot on average the battery gets and for how long how long the battery stays at high charge or very low.

There are many things that can greatly improve battery life that might mitigate other factors, for instance, a small battery such as the Leaf/ioniq 24 Kwh or 30 Kwh will need much more cycling than a 60 Kwh, so cycling will have a huge impact , however, improving the battery cycle life will have a huge impact on the life of the battery, also, improving heat resistance and charge /discharge capability officially known as the "C rate".

It's assumed ( but highly likely) Nissan improved cycle life as well as heat resistance, however a 35 Kw cap on fast charging after 50% on the fast charger will help keep heat at bay.

The Ioniq charges at almost twice the rate as the Leaf means it's battery is designed to take a higher C rate of charge or higher current. However , a larger AH battery can naturally take a higher charge current.

09-04-2017 10:02PM

unkel wrote: »

I've no proof but aren't the warranties testament that batteries do not deteriorate as much as people thought 5-10 years ago? I believe in the US, the Ioniq comes with a lifetime battery warranty!!!

Edit - Water John took the words out of my mouth there. Couldn't agree more

No batteries are much more reliable. Absolutely and the larger the Kwh the less you will need to baby it and battery loss won't be as noticeable as with a smaller Kwh battery.

woppers · 09-04-2017 10:07PM

While we're talking about charges, can someone please explain which EV's are compatible with each charging technology? I'm not 100% sure.

The 3 model's I'm wondering about are the Ioniq, Leaf and Zoe.

Also, which technologies are the newest? Which one's are are dying out? Are any of them being adopted by all car manufacturers?

I hear people mentioning 7kw, 11kw, and 22kw, 43kw, 50kw etc.

For example if the Ioniq plugs into an 22kw charger (I'm not even sure if this is possible) will it fully charge in 77 minutes?

The Ioniq is the main car I'm interested in really because the warranty is the only one that will suit my needs.

If I buy an Ioniq (if the waiting list isn't 8+ months) can I charge it at every charging point in the country?

Can the Ioniq avail of the rated kW on each charging point or does it restrict the speed of charging on some charging points?

09-04-2017 10:13PM

isnottheword wrote: »

From what I understand, the ESB have some difficulty getting sites for FCP's given that they don't always have the available power for them. With that, for the time being, SCP's should stay a part of the equation until they get past that (and whilst we wait for the full rollout and availability - to all - of EV's with 300-400KM range.

The ESB can usually provide any power they want however the greatest challenge is getting site owners to agree to having a charger on site and the hard truth about that is that the majority of site owners refuse to have any charger on site.

There are no chargers on the N7 for a reason.........

Indeed, AC should be a part of the equation not because of the possibility of power unavailability but because AC is highly practical. We need lots of AC/DC points and then people can choose what best suits their needs. AC points are a hell of a lot cheaper too.

isnottheword · 09-04-2017 10:17PM

@woppers : The Leaf can charge at a slow charge point (SCP) at either 3.3kW or 6.6kW (it's limited depending upon which on-board charger the car has. 6.6kW on-board charging was an extra - so not too many Leafs with this option). Type 1 to Type 2 cable needed to do this.
It can charge at a fast chargepoint (FCP) via DC current - with Chademo standard (Chademo connector - originally, a japanese standard. CCS seems to be emerging as the european standard but Nissan were first to market).

The Zoe has the advantage of being able to charge up to 22kW at a SCP. Zoe uses a type 1 (male) to type 1 (female) charging cable.
It can also charge at a FCP via Fast AC.

The Iconiq uses the CCS standard for FCP charging - and can charge at a faster rate (so long as the FCP chargepoint supports that rate of charge) - as outlined in this thread. The only issue here is that the network of CCS chargepoints in Ireland is rubbish (see ecars chargepoint network map).
I'm not sure what it achieves on a SCP - had been meaning to ask. Can any of the Iconiq owners pitch in?

unkel · 09-04-2017 10:33PM

Ioniq does 7.2kW on AC and 70kW on DC

09-04-2017 10:42PM

unkel wrote: »

Ioniq does 7.2kW on AC and 70kW on DC

Well officially the Ionig charges at 100 Kw on DC however this would be a very short time as the current would ramp down quickly. 65 Kw was the max I've seen on our triple headed DC points. Probably 60 Kw to the battery.

woppers · 09-04-2017 10:44PM

isnottheword wrote: »

@woppers : The Leaf can charge at a slow charge point (SCP) at either 3.3kW or 6.6kW (it's limited depending upon which on-board charger the car has. 6.6kW on-board charging was an extra - so not too many Leafs with this option). Type 1 to Type 2 cable needed to do this.
It can charge at a fast chargepoint (FCP) via DC current - with Chademo standard (Chademo connector - originally, a japanese standard. CCS seems to be emerging as the european standard but Nissan were first to market).

The Zoe has the advantage of being able to charge up to 22kW at a SCP. Zoe uses a type 1 (male) to type 1 (female) charging cable.
It can also charge at a FCP via Fast AC.

The Iconiq uses the CCS standard for FCP charging - and can charge at a faster rate (so long as the FCP chargepoint supports that rate of charge) - as outlined in this thread. The only issue here is that the network of CCS chargepoints in Ireland is rubbish (see ecars chargepoint network map).
I'm not sure what it achieves on a SCP - had been meaning to ask. Can any of the Iconiq owners pitch in?

Cheers isnottheword, that's very helpful information.

So if CCS is becoming the European standard are there plans for more of them to be installed?

Fiery mutant · 09-04-2017 10:48PM

unkel wrote: »

No need in the Ioniq. The car has a smart built-in feature that it checks the 12V battery once in a while if the car is not used and tops it up from the main battery if needed. This works up to 30 days iirc. Nice touch!

Yeah, just had to switch on the battery saver feature. Left the car at 62% so be interesting to see what I get back to.

09-04-2017 10:48PM

woppers wrote: »

Cheers isnottheword, that's very helpful information.

So if CCS is becoming the European standard are there plans for more of them to be installed?

Unfortunately no, Our charging network is at least a year behind due to the ESB's refusal to install any more charge points until the CER make their decision as to whether the ESB can have complete control of the network or not.

woppers · 09-04-2017 10:48PM

unkel wrote: »

Ioniq does 7.2kW on AC and 70kW on DC

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well officially the Ionig charges at 100 Kw on DC however this would be a very short time as the current would ramp down quickly. 65 Kw was the max I've seen on our triple headed DC points. Probably 60 Kw to the battery.

Also, thanks unkel and Mad_Lad.

I only began researching EV's 9 days ago abs there's a load of stuff to consider

unkel · 09-04-2017 10:53PM

Do a bit more research. Then watch Bjørn Nyland's 2 part review of the Ioniq. Then book one for a 24h testdrive and do your sums. Chances are you'll buy one the next day. I did

CCS is indeed becoming the European standard. It was supposed to be mandatory on all EVs from 2018 but that didn't happen yet. Japanese CHAdeMO charging is not going to disappear overnight but I doubt there will be any new ones installed anymore or any investments done to upgrade current ones. It's basically obsolete now.

Fiery mutant wrote: »

Yeah, just had to switch on the battery saver feature. Left the car at 62% so be interesting to see what I get back to.

Is that not on by default? I think I came across it there while messing with the menus.

woppers · 09-04-2017 10:57PM

unkel wrote: »

Do a bit more research. Then watch Bjørn Nyland's 2 part review of the Ioniq. Then book one for a 24h testdrive and do your sums. Chances are you'll buy one the next day. I did

How long did you have to wait from the day you decided to buy one and the delivery?

Fiery mutant · 09-04-2017 11:02PM

unkel wrote: »

Do a bit more research. Then watch BjÃ¸rn Nyland's 2 part review of the Ioniq. Then book one for a 24h testdrive and do your sums. Chances are you'll buy one the next day. I did

CCS is indeed becoming the European standard. It was supposed to be mandatory on all EVs from 2018 but that didn't happen yet. Japanese CHAdeMO charging is not going to disappear overnight but I doubt there will be any new ones installed anymore or any investments done to upgrade current ones. It's basically obsolete now.

Is that not on by default? I think I came across it there while messing with the menus.

Manual says it should be on, but i checked it wasn't ticked, so just had to tick the box and that's it.

09-04-2017 11:04PM

Yes but before you watch reviews of hypermilers , (that's people who know how to get the best efficiency out of a car) be sure to test drive it yourself. I found that you'd get about 180 Kms at about 100-110 Kph. Perhaps 200 Km in Summer.

The greatest thing about the Ioniq is the fast charging times, it charges faster than all affordable electrics currently on the market in Ireland. It charges faster than any other EV officially available in Ireland at the moment, the Tesla Model S not being available to buy direct in Ireland at this time. (soon to change)

It's fast charging really makes a difference compared to the 24 Kwh leaf for instance , charges at 45 Kw to about 40% and by 50% down to about 35 Kw where the Ioniq charges at 65 Kw all the way to 80%.

unkel · 09-04-2017 11:04PM

Had a good play with the auto driving (active cruise + LKAS) today in the Ioniq on the motorway. Kids thought it was great fun / magic. It worked well, particularly the active cruise control. But I wouldn't trust it and you need to touch the steering wheel every 30 seconds anyway otherwise it will prompt you (beeping). Saw a clip the other day of a lad in the US who had two weights on springs hanging on both sides of the steering wheel, tricking the software into thinking someone was holding the wheel

Apparently all the hardware is already in the Ioniq for fully autonomous driving (autopilot) but Hyundai is still working on the software

Linky to vid of auto driving Ioniq EV

09-04-2017 11:06PM

woppers wrote: »

How long did you have to wait from the day you decided to buy one and the delivery?

Do please also be aware the Leaf Gen II is due at the end of the year with deliveries anywhere from December to March 2018. ( my best guess )

It will possibly have much more range than the Ioniq.

unkel · 09-04-2017 11:07PM

woppers wrote: »

How long did you have to wait from the day you decided to buy one and the delivery?

Bought 19/01/2017 and got the car 07/04/2017 (but the date given when I bought was 20/02/2017)

Not looking good now though. If you bought today, the dealer will give you a delivery date of late October. Which is ridiculous, Hyundai can note cope with the demand. I doubt anyone would want to wait that long. But you might be able to get a cancellation, buy a demo, buy second hand, or buy from the UK

unkel · 09-04-2017 11:10PM

As for range, I'm using 13-14 kW, driving the car very, very hard, in sport mode only, lots of fast acceleration and with plenty of motorway driving (over the speed limit too). Which indicates a range of 200-215km

If you take it handy, have quite a bit of urban driving, not just all motorway and national roads, and don't go over 100km/h, you should have a range of 300km no problem

woppers · 09-04-2017 11:12PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes but before you watch reviews of hypermilers , (that's people who know how to get the best efficiency out of a car) be sure to test drive it yourself. I found that you'd get about 180 Kms at about 100-110 Kph. Perhaps 200 Km in Summer.

The greatest thing about the Ioniq is the fast charging times, it charges faster than all affordable electrics currently on the market in Ireland. It charges faster than any other EV officially available in Ireland at the moment, the Tesla Model S not being available to buy direct in Ireland at this time. (soon to change)

It's fast charging really makes a difference compared to the 24 Kwh leaf for instance , charges at 45 Kw to about 40% and by 50% down to about 35 Kw where the Ioniq charges at 65 Kw all the way to 80%.

I'll be test driving one in a couple of weeks. About 65% of my commute will be motorway so I'll be interested in what the range will be after driving that stretch for 120kmh.

Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

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