Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

liamog · 09-04-2017 01:11AM

Mope wrote: »

what exactly liamog is working on? Wrapper for what? Are you working on improving eCar or maybe creating your own thing for Ioniq only? :P

I only today found out about Zap-Map - really nice website, loving it :-]

I'm making a Windows Phone wrapper around the current eCars app, I've a Lumia 950XL and so does Unkel, so at least two people will benefit.

09-04-2017 01:30AM

In fairness to the ESB the likes of Renault and Nissan promised they'd have more support for 22 KW AC and it didn't happen !

I would hardly call the AC system unused, I regularly see people using the AC network. It's very convenient especially if you got 6+ Kw Charger in your EV and it unloads some the burden on the DC network and I love the fact that I can get a decent charge in my 6.6 Kw Leaf in 2 hrs means I don't have to bother with DC chargers most of the time !

Mickeroo · 09-04-2017 01:31AM

Mope wrote: »

You didn't know that?

Wouldn't have asked if I did

unkel · 09-04-2017 01:48AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I would hardly can the AC system unused, I regularly see people using the AC network.

People use it because it is there. Micky Mouse system though, should never have been rolled out. The only not at home, not at destination charge we need is a fast one. Several 200-300kW, multiple bay stations, we only need a few of them in Ireland on the main motorways

Gumbo · 09-04-2017 09:09AM

Mickeroo wrote: »

Wouldn't have asked if I did

It's standard on all EV's.
Don't be afraid to ask questions, we all learn from them.

goz83 · 09-04-2017 09:15AM

liamog wrote: »

I'm making a Windows Phone wrapper around the current eCars app, I've a Lumia 950XL and so does Unkel, so at least two people will benefit.

Is that not a dying platform? I suppose its more of a personal hobby build though.

unkel wrote: »

People use it because it is there. Micky Mouse system though, should never have been rolled out. The only not at home, not at destination charge we need is a fast one. Several 200-300kW, multiple bay stations, we only need a few of them in Ireland on the main motorways

The AC CPs are poorly positioned alright. The one across from Glasnevin being the perfect example. It's a stones throw away from the Topaz FCP.

Mope · 09-04-2017 09:41AM

Mickeroo wrote: »

Wouldn't have asked if I did

Sorry, did not want to come across as smart ars. I though you ironicly ask unkel that it cannot be that much of regen

DrPhilG · 09-04-2017 11:08AM

I would disagree that the SCP network is useless, but I do agree that it is often poorly placed.

On street chargers in random places are daft.

It's the same with FCPs. Putting them at shopping centres etc is a joke.

FCPs should be at service stations on main routes, SCPs should be cinemas, shopping centres etc where you are going to be away for a few hours anyway.

Mickeroo · 09-04-2017 11:41AM

Mope wrote: »

Sorry, did not want to come across as smart ars. I though you ironicly ask unkel that it cannot be that much of regen

No worries, I get you now. Been following this thread with great interest for a few weeks now. It's pretty much convinced me I'll be going EV next time I buy

09-04-2017 12:43PM

unkel wrote: »

People use it because it is there. Micky Mouse system though, should never have been rolled out. The only not at home, not at destination charge we need is a fast one. Several 200-300kW, multiple bay stations, we only need a few of them in Ireland on the main motorways

You might think that but use the AC points and see how practical they are once you get over the whole fast charging thing. It won't take long even if you can charge much faster than a 24 Kwh leaf, it gets old especially after having to wait anything up to 1 hr 20 mins while a Leaf driver insists they need 100 % !

When I get into town on a drive within range of a 100% charge, I can plug in and in 2 hrs have 50-55% charge or more if I need to stay longer.

Or worst case, it greatly cuts down on the time needed to fast charge.

Whether you have 100 Kw or 300 Kw charging, it's a lot nicer and far more convenient to have your car charged when you get back to it or at least have enough to get to the next destination.

Of course fast chargers are needed and much more because there's a lot of apartment owners and people who rent who are simply not allowed have a charge point. My Brother being one, he can't have a charge point installed in his apartment so he can't have an EV and he's only finally realising how ridiculous it is driving a 2.0L Diesel in Dublin and he's due to change soon and would have probably got an Ioniq. Anyway to prevent a ramble, fast charging will have it's uses but AC charging is highly practical.

Ask a Zoe owner how fantastic it is being abale to avail of the full 22 Kw from the AC points !

Renault and Nissan failed to live up to their BS by having much more electrics that would support 22 KW AC charging. Even if the Fluence EV had to have 22 Kw AC it could have survived.

So if anything we need much more AC and DC points to cater for those who can't install home charge points.

unkel · 09-04-2017 12:46PM

DrPhilG wrote: »

SCPs should be cinemas, shopping centres etc where you are going to be away for a few hours anyway.

What's the point charging for 2 hours though. And gaining what, 6.6kWh in a 3.3kW charger Nissan Leaf? Like €0.50 saving compared to home charging for your efforts?

If it came with free parking, it would be a different story of course!

@mad_lad - I can see the attraction for a Zoe owner alright, but we hardly should have the infrastructure for one make / model car, should we? CCS (and a few CHAdeMO for the legacy Leafs

) all along the national route network, one every 30-40km will do. Not at supermarkets, in town centres or any of that nonsense

09-04-2017 01:04PM

BTW averaging 13.3-14 Kwh/100 kms in the Leaf lately. :-)

Leaf%20Consumption.png

unkel · 09-04-2017 01:14PM

Miss daisy is a racing driver compared to you

n97 mini · 09-04-2017 01:32PM

unkel wrote: »

People use it because it is there. Micky Mouse system though, should never have been rolled out. The only not at home, not at destination charge we need is a fast one. Several 200-300kW, multiple bay stations, we only need a few of them in Ireland on the main motorways

While I agree that more FCPs are needed, SCPs in places like train station car parks and shopping centres are very useful. These are places poeple go anyway.

As there is no AC-DC conversion in the SCPs, and they're relatively simple devices in comparison, I'd imagine a triple standard FCP costs 10x more.

n97 mini · 09-04-2017 01:39PM

unkel wrote: »

What's the point charging for 2 hours though. And gaining what, 6.6kWh in a 3.3kW charger Nissan Leaf? Like €0.50 saving compared to home charging for your efforts?

Because it may make the difference between being able to get home or not. 2 hours is still 30% top up in a slow charging car like Fluence, early Leaf etc. It's not about saving money. (And pieces of shít like the Fleunce have no fast charge capability at all!)

I brought my son to the cinema recently. Plugged in outside at 22%, came out 1hr40 later with the car at 91% (yes the maths don't quite work, but I believe the SOC indicated isn't the true SOC anyway). No need to stop at the FCP on our (long) way home as a result.

09-04-2017 02:15PM

unkel wrote: »

Miss daisy is a racing driver compared to you

Na not really just taking my time and not driving at 120-130 Kph on motorways !

09-04-2017 02:24PM

unkel wrote: »

What's the point charging for 2 hours though. And gaining what, 6.6kWh in a 3.3kW charger Nissan Leaf? Like â‚¬0.50 saving compared to home charging for your efforts?

If it came with free parking, it would be a different story of course!

@mad_lad - I can see the attraction for a Zoe owner alright, but we hardly should have the infrastructure for one make / model car, should we? CCS (and a few CHAdeMO for the legacy Leafs ) all along the national route network, one every 30-40km will do. Not at supermarkets, in town centres or any of that nonsense

The AC Network isn't catered for one make/model. Any EV can avail of the AC network and it's the fault of the manufacturers that they have not installed chargers more powerful than about 7 Kw, not the ESB.

At the time only Renault and Nissan were bothered releasing electrics, but they did tell lies to the ESB when they they insisted they'd have a lot more electrics that could charge at 22 KW on AC.

Not everyone needs 45-300 Kw DC charging all the time........

The AC network is a bloody good one and it's the fault of the manufacturers that it's not used nearly to it's full potential.

AC charge points are a lot cheaper too.

Use the AC network Unkel before you dismiss it because I guarantee fast charging will get old fast no matter how fast the car charges you'll still be frustrated with other EV owners hogging the chargers.

Remember the AC and DC network will be important in the future for those who can't charge at home and we won't have nearly enough and it would be a mistake for the ESB to completely abandon new AC installations.

Fiery mutant · 09-04-2017 02:46PM

Looking for some advice here guys. I'm going away for 10 days, and am wondering should I take out the 12v battery in the car, or will the battery saver system keep it in good condition?

cros13 · 09-04-2017 02:57PM

Fiery mutant wrote: »

Looking for some advice here guys. I'm going away for 10 days, and am wondering should I take out the 12v battery in the car, or will the battery saver system keep it in good condition?

It'll be grand, leave it with something in the region of 50-80% indicated state of charge.

The big no nos are leaving the car full or nearly empty.

Fiery mutant · 09-04-2017 02:59PM

Why is leaving it full a big no no?

zilog_jones · 09-04-2017 03:22PM

Generally it's not good for Li-ion batteries to be left at full charge for a long time, but I wouldn't worry too much about 10 days. The owner's handbook should have some recommendations on the subject.

DrPhilG · 09-04-2017 03:52PM

unkel wrote: »

What's the point charging for 2 hours though. And gaining what, 6.6kWh in a 3.3kW charger Nissan Leaf? Like â‚¬0.50 saving compared to home charging for your efforts?

What "efforts"?

I doubt that many people plan trips to SCPs or makes any effort to fit them into their day. They are a convenience. Of course it's better if there are parking incentives but either way they are handy.

If I go to the cinema I'll charge at the SCP there, and in the 2/2.5 hours I'm in there I'll add about 70-75%.

They are a useful charger to have at the right location. Having them on street is daft though unless you happen to have relatives living near one and you visit them a lot!

09-04-2017 08:50PM

Roughly 30-40% is the Ideal storage for the battery. Or about 3.8 Volts per cell.

Lithium batteries don't like to be stored at high voltages for extended periods it increases stresses on the battery. Too high and too low voltages are not ideal.

Water John · 09-04-2017 08:53PM

As the number EVs increases, slow public chargers become obselete. You'd need them all over the place to cater for a lot of cars.

If 10 EV owners go to the cinema or a show, where will they all plug in for 2 hours?

isnottheword · 09-04-2017 08:58PM

Water John wrote: »

As the number EVs increases, slow public chargers become obselete. You'd need them all over the place to cater for a lot of cars.

Is there any reason why they shouldn't be all over the place? By all accounts, they're all over the place in Oslo. The UK have them in supermarket car parks.

Water John · 09-04-2017 09:06PM

Well, I think we can all assume that future EV's will have larger batteries. More than likely coming from improvements in design as much as simply size.

Then EV's will have a 3/400km range. Based on that, the possible charging plan of the country should be designed.

Who would use public chargers?
How many fast charging stations and the number of points in each?
What contribution would slow public chargers make to the overall plan?

unkel · 09-04-2017 09:16PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Not everyone needs 45-300 Kw DC charging all the time........

The AC network is a bloody good one

We need to look forward, not back. 22kW public AC charging might have been ok a few years back (even if most cars couldn't use it), we need 300-400kW DC chargers going forward

Chargers that charge up a 60KwH battery from 20-90% in not a lot more than 5 minutes. Just like people get petrol / diesel now. That's what we need at all national roads and motorways every 40km or so by 2022. Same as you would see petrol service stations on motorways everywhere else in the world - not like in Ireland where until recently there were no service stations on motorways :eek:

BTW 3rd fast charge done in 3 days just now. My 10 year old did the charging

isnottheword · 09-04-2017 09:18PM

Water John wrote: »

Well, I think we can all assume that future EV's will have larger batteries. More than likely coming from improvements in design as much as simply size.

Agreed.

Water John wrote: »

Who would use public chargers?
How many fast charging stations and the number of points in each?
What contribution would slow public chargers make to the overall plan?

We're not there yet. Right now, all those with EV's and those that will buy into 24-30kW EV's. Remember, not everyone buys in new.
With that, we're a few years away from where we need to be. In the meantime, the country has targets it has no hope of reaching - albeit that it should be doing all it can to reach them. The outcome is that we're a few years down the line until the vast majority are on 3-400KM range.

SCP's are probably low cost - anyone have any figures re. how much an scp costs? I'd imagine they can be deployed and re-deployed pretty easily. Right now, there are plenty that can use them. Otherwise, are all those apartment dwellers OR those that live street side (who can't exactly have cables trailing over the public footpath) to be disenfranchised?

Places where people spend a bit of time would be useful eg. shopping centres, supermarkets, cinemas, etc. They can be deployed in workplaces - where in the vast majority of cases, cars are sitting idol for 8 hours straight. If we find the need to move away from public scp charging, scp's could be re-deployed here. Larger employers are now involved in microgen and renewable gen - so it may make sense for them to offer multiple scp chargepoints.

22kW charge points are useful to those running the R. Zoe - or for Leaf's with 6.6kW on-board charging.

Lastly, it's recommended that people minimise FCP charging in order to protect the ongoing integrity of the battery.

I'm not saying that improvements are not required in terms of FCP network, the integrity of same and siting of same. That needs to happen too - and we need to move to a model whereby we have multiple chargepoints housed within the same location - in the same way as Tesla do it (and FastNed in the Netherlands). That said, for the moment, SCP's are still relevant on the public system.

unkel · 09-04-2017 09:27PM

isnottheword wrote: »

Lastly, it's recommended that people minimise FCP charging in order to protect the ongoing integrity of the battery.

I thought this was a bit of a myth that has long been dispelled?

And don't pretty much all EVs come with 8 year warranties on the battery? I wouldn't even hesitate fast charging my car 5 times a day if I felt like it. Aren't there loads of Leaf taxis that have been charging numerous times a day for years (without issue)?

unkel · 09-04-2017 09:28PM

Fiery mutant wrote: »

Looking for some advice here guys. I'm going away for 10 days, and am wondering should I take out the 12v battery in the car?

No need in the Ioniq. The car has a smart built-in feature that it checks the 12V battery once in a while if the car is not used and tops it up from the main battery if needed. This works up to 30 days iirc. Nice touch!

Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh

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